Any mechanics in Essex that actually know the Flapper lump?

Any mechanics in Essex that actually know the Flapper lump?

Author
Discussion

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Just looking to dump the car on someone who knows the flapper system and get it started then sort the running so I can out it asap.

I know I should be enjoying tracking and solving the faults but I simply have not got the time and really for me, buying a wedge was a mistake.

So would really appreciate any recommendations for any mechanics in the region who've had success with the flapper lump. Cheers smile

adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
What's up with it and which end of Essex? I'm just over the border in Cambs.

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Southend. It's become a garden ornament currently.

Almost immediately after purchase it started playing up going into a massive stuttering misfire when you tried to use anything more than half throttle. Sometimes it would behave itself though and drive perfectly - usually when hot.

I've replaced the ignition amp and ecu temp sensor - but the car was almost impossible to start last time on the road - October last year - and was stalling every time I stopped at a junction it would die.

It's been SORN since and it now refuses to start. I have new leads, plugs, cap and rotor arm to go in (not yet fitted because the plugs haven't turned up yet - thanks ebay!) but even when I get it started I've still got this misfire to deal with.

I've posted up on the V8 forums so fingers crossed there's someone reasonably local


Edited by smash on Sunday 13th April 14:24

Wedg1e

26,760 posts

264 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
You need to move 200 miles north, then I'd pop round biggrin

adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Wrong end of Essex for me too I don't even go over to Leigh on Sea any more.

Take a look through the technical articles in the "FAQ" section. There are all sorts of things to try some of which are cheap or free.

If you're handy with a soldering iron then the ECU might be worth a try - go over both boards and reflow all the joints.

GOG440

9,247 posts

189 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Paul (PK500) is a mechanic and has a collection of TVRs(a 400 se, 2x 200s and he has a chimeara.
He is a about 60 miles north of you but it might be worthwhile sending him a PM and talking to him.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Sunday 13th April 2014
quotequote all
Not on a TVR but same injection system, fuel rail temp sensors and coolant temp sensors on mine used to cause something similar to this, they can be checked with a multimeter. The engine temp sensor for the ECU is not the same one as the temp gauge.

honestjohntoo

576 posts

215 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
smash said:
[quote="smash"]
Almost immediately it started playing up going into a massive stuttering misfire when you tried to use anything more than half throttle. Sometimes it would behave itself though and drive perfectly - usually when hot.

I've replaced the ignition amp and ecu temp sensor - but the car was almost impossible to start last time on the road - October last year - and was stalling every time I stopped at a junction it would die.
Hello ???, Is it running weak or rich?

If weak, your spark plugs will be clean, dry and pretty white. Main causes, lack of fuel, crud in the filters and pump, air leak into the intake system, low fuel pressure, duff ECU, overrun valve stuck open, etc, etc.

If rich, plugs are wet, black, sooty, smell of fuel, as will the exhaust tail pipe be sooty and smell likewise. Main causes, ECU, high fuel pressure, leaking injector, coolant temp sensor, noisy throt pot, etc, etc.

Without these symptoms, everything is a guess; as was your scatter-gun replacement of temp sensor, ignition amp, new leads, plugs, cap and rotor arm.

You could buy a whole new system and a simple connection fault will still shut things down. Pretty much 80% of all flapper faults are due to air leaks and connection problems, and of late, crud in the fuel system is a significant contributor.

We have to presume it is a fuelling issue rather than ignition as the car has (had) sparks to make it run - but is the ignition timing correct????

It's a complete nightmare! Right? And, unfortunately, the chance of finding a local 'expert garage' you can trust is not good.

So if you want to experience your V8 dream, acquire and read, nay study, the Flapper Efi Ops Manual, read about all the components therein and how they all work together.

Alternatively, given time, (make time) I suggest, go to

http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Snippets...

and read about/perform the 15 point health plan as set out on that page and all the links to my web pages that it contains.

I note that you are short of time, but, you'l be amazed how well the referenced material will teach you all you need to know! Be your own expert! smile



hallsie

2,184 posts

219 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
Get hold of Maston as he still has my psare ECU and AFM, give them a try and that may help eliminate 2 more potentials.
(if you do get it from him then let me know)
I have the problem on mine sometimes, and a good knock to the ECU connector always works for it!

STu

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
All advice appreciated. i have been having a bad time of it recently elsewhere and so my tolerence for playing up TVRs is just ultra low I guess.

HonestJohn - the car was originally starting OK but had "brickwall" stuttering misfire when using any more than about half throttle (irrespective of how much past hald the throttle was so unlikely TPS track).

Last time it was driven was October last year when on it's return home journey it proved almost impossible to start and stalled at every junction unless rev'd. It has stood since October. I started it a month ago after a major struggle and it wasn't happy -missing and coughing when reving.

Two weeks ago it didn't want to start at all, it was trying to catch but just couldn't sustain. The ignition amp was my first guess for the part/full load stuttering misfire and at £16 it was worth a shot. Unfortunately the car hasn't been on the road since so I don't know whether that has had any effect. the temp sensor made no difference - this was done whilst the car was still on the road. Now as the car has sat for 6 odd months under a stormforce cover but nevertheless outside I figured damp may be an issue. So I bought new leads, cap, coil, plugs and rotor arm. The old leads on the car are magnecor but, at the end of the day, they can still fail like any other.

Hallsie - much appreciated. Will take you up on that when it's started if I may.

Zig - got your email & will reply tonight. You are a true gent smile

Edited by smash on Monday 14th April 15:11

Wedg1e

26,760 posts

264 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
smash said:
"brickwall" stuttering misfire when using any more than about half throttle (irrespective of how much past hald the throttle was so unlikely TPS track).

Last time it was driven was October last year when on it's return home journey it proved almost impossible to start and stalled at every junction unless rev'd. It has stood since October. I started it a month ago after a major struggle and it wasn't happy -missing and coughing when reving.

Two weeks ago it didn't want to start at all, it was trying to catch but just couldn't sustain. The ignition amp was my first guess for the part/full load stuttering misfire and at £16 it was worth a shot.
Similar symtoms occur if the ignition trigger coil in the distributor is on its way out - mine wouldn't rev past about 5000 for months no matter what I did, then one day it wouldn't start. Traced to the pickup, fitted a replacement, normal (6000+rpm) service resumed.
As the ECU relies on a good trigger signal from the ignition amp it ends up being a double whammy fault: sparks not working properly and fuel being cut at the same time.



adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Monday 14th April 2014
quotequote all
Good point - before you start fiddling with anything take the king lead off the dizzy, lay the end on the rocker cover and turn the engine over.

Then if you have reasonable spark jumping that will eliminate (complete) failure of the pickup, amplifier, and coil.

Given that it's very hard to eliminate air, the next step after that will be to check for fuel, either pressure or drive of the injectors.

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
Swapped the plugs for a set of fresh NGK

This is what came out - totally black. Fuelling issues then?



Poxy dizzy cap from simonbbc.com doesn't fit - too tight to sit down properly.

Haven't bothered trying to start it as I figure it'll just gum up the new plugs.

I suppose the good thing is if it's that rich it should go up pretty easy if I put a match to it!

hallsie

2,184 posts

219 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
smash said:
Swapped the plugs for a set of fresh NGK

This is what came out - totally black. Fuelling issues then?



Poxy dizzy cap from simonbbc.com doesn't fit - too tight to sit down properly.

Haven't bothered trying to start it as I figure it'll just gum up the new plugs.

I suppose the good thing is if it's that rich it should go up pretty easy if I put a match to it!
Better check your adding up too!

wink

Stu

mrzigazaga

18,534 posts

164 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
Looks like heavy over fuelling..Disconnect the cold start...Check for healthy spark from the coil..Check the relays also in the footwell...Ziga

adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
That might have happened before the changeover in temp sensor but another cause - if not that - could be the ECU needing a re-solder.

Check the fuel pressure isn't excessive, either. Try blowing down the fuel return pipe to check for a blockage (this can raise the pressure).

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
I've had the cold start disconnected for some time.

Zig - where did you get your fuel pressure gauge from - ebay? Let em know and I'll order one tonight.

I'll pull the ecu and resolder and reseat the plug as well as possible.

Apologies for the poor arithmetic btW!

mrzigazaga

18,534 posts

164 months

Tuesday 15th April 2014
quotequote all
smash said:
Zig - where did you get your fuel pressure gauge from - ebay? Let em know and I'll order one tonight.
Hi Mate...It was connected to an adjustable FPR...


You can buy the gauges and probably make up a fitting though..I guess you would fit it into the cold start hose?....Ziga
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSE-SYTEC-FUEL-PRESSURE-...

smash

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

227 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
Cool - any clues what size fitting for the cold start pipe - they do 6 or 8mm?

mrzigazaga

18,534 posts

164 months

Wednesday 16th April 2014
quotequote all
smash said:
Cool - any clues what size fitting for the cold start pipe - they do 6 or 8mm?
Hi mate...I had my fuel rail re-hosed and that was 5/16ths...So about 8mm..Ziga