fuel pump power 85 wedge federal

[jforrester42]

I have not checked to see if the distributor shaft is turning. I have put a spark plug on the plenum with it hooked to a distributor wire and I do have spark. Do not know if its timing is correct though. Removing a valve cover should tell a lot. I have not put oil in the cylinders but have turned the engine over quite a lot while checking the fuel injection. One good sign is that the oil pressure does come up while turning the engine with the starter. Does the oil pump get its drive from the cam?
Thanks,
John

[mrzigazaga]

Hi mate...I believe the oil pump is driven by the cam and the distributor...Ziga

[RCK974X]

Yep, it does, and it's the same drive as the dizzy, so that's a good thing. Doesn't guarantee that ignition (or valve) timing is right however, but still a good tick on the 'things checked' list....

So if you've got fuel, and sparks, it should at least cough now and then....unless timing is VERY wrong, like dizzy is 180 degrees out (which can happen if engine rebuilt....it's an easy mistake to make).

[pasogrande]

John,
Check that you have 12 volts at the positive side of the coil (ignition in run position) I have to put a wire from my battery to the coil to make mine run!
Wilf.

[jforrester42]

I will check the voltage at the coil, I do know I have spark. The engine does cough now and then but never really catches. Making slow progress on the interior. Doors are done, new fabric on lower panels, refinished wood handles and kept the original vinyl parts. Seats are recovered, did not do them in leather but they look very good. Carpet is about half finished, console is back in so one side looks pretty good. Not sure what to do about glove box door finish, the rest of the dashboard still looks good. The clock even works!!
Cheers,
John

[jforrester42]

Little update. I finished the interior and the front chassis bushings and steering boots. Started on the engine with a little more investigation. I found no compression in some of the cylinders and suspected stuck valves. I have opened up the left valve cover and found the valves were not stuck. I did find there was no clearance in two of the exhaust valve to rocker gaps. I set them to .016 inch gap and now have compression in both cylinders. I have hope the valves are not burnt. With only 24K miles I suspect they have never been adjusted from new.The engine appears to be very clean inside.
Next is to remove the right side valve cover and see if the same problem exists. Not looking forward to removing all the stuff required to get the valve cover off.
Cheers,
John

[adam quantrill]

Interesting I never realised that was one consequence of no clearance. If there was no compression there would have been no ignition so little chance of burning I would have thought.

[mrzigazaga]

If they are leaded heads then I'm not sure that only 24K could cause valve recession to that degree..But then again is 24K enough to actually coat the valves..How long would it take to build up a lead memory?...

A lot of the times they are adjusted as they sound tappy and people think they are loose...The V6 cologne should be a little tappy..Ziga

[RCK974X]

To me, that sounds a bit weird, a rebuilt engine but never started afterwards ?? Although I have seen people simply give up after deciding it's just too hard.

Anyway, Zig, if it's the original export engine it SHOULD have hardened seats, as far as I know.

Rocker Covers.

You *can* get the other rocker cover out, under the main throttle valve and all those injector pipes, so just disconnect the main air pipe. It's fiddly, but do-able. I've done this many times to check clearances.

Yes, some of the rocker cover bolts on that side are a pain to get at, but again all doable with care. You need a long thin extension (I use a 1/4 inch square drive mini socket with a long extension piece)

Yes, better slack and tappy valves than too tight on this engine !!

Consider gasket sealer when you're finally sorted, as those rocker cover gaskets tend to leak oil - a very common problem on Cologne engines.

[mrzigazaga]

RCK974X said:

Consider gasket sealer when you're finally sorted, as those rocker cover gaskets tend to leak oil - a very common problem on Cologne engines.

For definite...Do you have load spreaders on the rocker cover bolts?...They do help, Its a shame a rubber gasket was never made for the Cologne..I think they did it for the later 2.9..If ever you remove the inlet manifold be sure to use plenty of sealant, Especially around the distributor housing area as its an area prone to leaks.

[RCK974X]

Zig,

My first Cologne engine was a 2.3 Cortina, and it didn't have the spreaders.
I didn't understand why someone had welded the covers on with what seemed to be a full tube of "instant gasket".
I found out later when the cabin filled up with oil fumes .....

Even WITH the spreaders, the gaskets still tend to leak. I wondered if the rubber 2.9 ones might fit - Ford cleverly incorporated a few metal pins around the bolt holes so you can't crush the rubber too much... Nice.

But I rely on "Red Hermetite" type stuff instead...

[jforrester42]

The valve cover bolts do have spreaders. The covers showed no evidence of having ever been removed, the paint on the bolts was still intact. Cork gaskets with no sign of leaks though pretty dry and hand tight bolts. The cover I have removed is on the injection side, it was not to difficult. The other side has a number of hoses and it looks like the alternator will have to come off as well.
I do suspect the the metering unit is gummed up from sitting with old fuel in it for four or more years. I will finish the valve adjustment and reassemble the covers before taking on the metering unit. I can lift the disk and it moves up but does not fall back down on its own weight.
Thanks to all, now back to work,
John

[mrzigazaga]

Hi mate...The thing is also with the metering head there is a mesh filter inside the diaphragm and if that has failed then any crud coming into it will contaminate it..It will then get into the WUR and injectors..Normally the first place to check before even thinking about starting a car that has sat around for years is to check the condition of the fuel inside the tanks and the condition of them...Both...If there is any rust in the fuel tanks then that will ultimately be dragged through the fuel pump..Accumulator...Bulkhead fuel filter...Metering head...WUR and finally injectors..

The worst and most common mistake of owners of classic cars being stationery for years is to just go out there one day, Fit a new battery and turn it over...You might as well of hooked up a dripper system of your life savings before turning the key.

You must remember that the metering head, WUR and injectors have pintles, Jets or high flow apertures were the fuel can become like syrup and eventual clog these components and no matter how much cleaning of them you do sometimes it is no where near enough and they will need professional attention or replacing..The latter becoming more and more difficult.


Mechanically the cologne is a fairly hardy lump..Okay it has a low pressure oil pump and a bakerlite cam gear but they can be changed..I have had engines that were over 100K and still pushing decent power with no smoke or rattles...

If it were me i would get all the valve clearances done but i would check the condition of the tanks and if okay empty out all the old fuel and crud..Rinse and refill with fresh..Before thinking about starting it..Definitely change the bulkhead fuel filter..You can pour out the fuel inside to see if there are any flecks in there...RUST!. You can very carefully check the condition of the fuel coming from the metering head..WUR or injectors but PLEASE be careful....If you don't do this in the order the run then any work you do on the metering head..WUR or injectors is of no benefit whatsoever.

1. Tanks
2. Fuel pump
3. Accumulator
4. Bulkhead fuel filter
5. Metering head/Unit
6. WUR
7. Injectors

I learnt a very big expensive lesson with my 280i...Delilah you cow...But i still love her....Cheers...Ziga

[jforrester42]

When I purchased the car I was told it had not run for four years, no other info.
The fuel smelled like varnish and was discolored. I have revived a number of old cars with bad fuel but never one with Bosch jetronic.
I have:
Flushed the tanks
Removed and cleaned the swirlpot
replaced the related hoses
added a inline filter between the swirlpot and the fuel pump
replaced the fuel pump (frozen)
replaced the accumulator (leaked)
replaced the main filter

I have not done anything major at the metering unit. I have opened each of the fittings that go to the injectors at the metering unit and there is fuel flow at that point.
Has anyone tried to clean the metering unit of "gummy' fuel??
Do I need to send it for a rebuild?
Thanks again,
John

[mrzigazaga]

The thing with the metering head is the internals..There was a guide to cleaning it available but the metal mesh that sits between the diaphragm is so thin its vulnerable to damage pre-fit..Also you have to use the correct sealant to seal it up as the fuel will destroy most sealants...It needs to be aircraft grade...Then if parts need replacing they will be hard to find and then it has to be set up right when refurbished..

You could email kmi petrol and injection..The guy's name is Steve, You can tell him that i recommended you..(Mark), He is a very helpful person..He knows the K-Jetronic system inside out.

KMI
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...

[RCK974X]

jforrester42 said:

The valve cover bolts do have spreaders. The covers showed no evidence of having ever been removed, the paint on the bolts was still intact. Cork gaskets with no sign of leaks though pretty dry and hand tight bolts. The cover I have removed is on the injection side, it was not to difficult. The other side has a number of hoses and it looks like the alternator will have to come off as well.
I do suspect the the metering unit is gummed up from sitting with old fuel in it for four or more years. I will finish the valve adjustment and reassemble the covers before taking on the metering unit. I can lift the disk and it moves up but does not fall back down on its own weight.
Thanks to all, now back to work,
John

John,

I've not had serious valve recession in any of my Cologne engines [Yet - others say they have], but it can cause valve clearances to disappear over time.

On my earlier wedge you can get both valve covers off without disconnecting a load of pipework or bits. I know on the later (and export) wedges with power steering etc, the alternator and steering pump are mounted with a custom TVR bracket, which might well get in the way... (Zig ? did your PS pump get in the way ?)

The rocker bolts should NOT be very tight, as this compresses the cork, and can actually cause worse leaks (sounds contradictory, but true !) I think the Ford official figure is only 6 ft/lbs (9 with spreaders ?)

If the disk/vane doesn't fall under its own weight then unit is indeed gummed up, as this is the main component for fuel metering it will never work properly - you might get it to splutter into life temporarily ?
Vane should fall freely, but slower than free fall, as it's damped a little.

It's not recommended to take the metering head apart, so you will probably have to go to a specialist for cleaning.
As said before - Audi/VW had the 'K' system for a long time, so if you are stuck they should know where to get help.

[mrzigazaga]

RCK974X said:

Zig ? did your PS pump get in the way ?

Hi mate..The original fitment was on a TVR engineered bracket and you could just about wiggle the O/S rocker cover off..Getting to No.1 spark plug was a nightmare...I eventually went for the Capri PAS pump as the brackets lined up and all i had to do was turn the pulley/belt tensioner 180 degrees....Oh and use a smaller belt...Ziga

[jforrester42]

My car has the alternator and air conditioning compressor on a huge bracket on the right side. No power steering. Many of the bolts are difficult to reach. The alternator belt tension bolt is very bad. My son changed the number one spark plug from under the car.
Some parts for my TR-6 came today so it got most of the work instead of the Wedge. All British car show next week in Arkansas so the TR will get preference.

Zig, your engine bay sure looks like a lot of things are in different places. Very tidy, have you moved things beside the steering pump? Also looks better without the AC stuff. Did your car come with power steering because of larger tires?

Sounds like I will need a professional rebuild for the metering head.

Cheers,
John

[jeff m2]

jforrester42 said:

Sounds like I will need a professional rebuild for the metering head.

Cheers,
John

As you have already got a splutter, I recommend keep trying to get it to run, add Techron/Sea Foam to the gas tank in an effort to clear residual varnish from ALL the bits. Spending on an FD overhaul might not result in a smooth running car! It could need more!!!!
Best to try the cheaper options first.

Check the Aux Air is not stuck up, this thing is quite important to cold starting.
Regulates air flow which in turn lifts the plate under FD which sends more fuel.

If you get tempted to use ether, one small squirt only, or you'll get a big blow back with CIS
Porsche owners have pop off valves on their plenums, we don't

Good luck.

[RCK974X]

jforrester42 said:

...Zig, your engine bay sure looks like a lot of things are in different places. Very tidy, have you moved things beside the steering pump ....

John, expecting things to be in the same place (even for wedges of the same year!!) is a bit like expecting the moon to be made of green cheese.....

Seriously - TVR swopped stuff around the engine bay ALL THE TIME, so the different years, subtypes, later ones, PS ones, export ones, all appear to be different in detail. I understand some of the later V6 ones had the radiator in the nose like the V8 for example.

On mine you couldn't put the PS pump on the original Ford bracket (as Zig's pic), as it would foul the air filter.
(mine doesn't have PS). Ford had this problem too, so they had a slim air filter version, used on the Capri - the TVR one comes from a (Euro) Granada as far as I know.