fuel pump power 85 wedge federal

fuel pump power 85 wedge federal

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mrzigazaga

18,551 posts

165 months

Friday 5th September 2014
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jforrester42 said:
Zig, your engine bay sure looks like a lot of things are in different places. Very tidy, have you moved things beside the steering pump? Also looks better without the AC stuff. Did your car come with power steering because of larger tires?
Hi John...Mine was fitted with PAS as an option from new, It had 14" wheels..I don't think it would of been a bad drive without it and at one point i was going to go over to a manual steering rack.. As Andy say's a lot of things were moved around on the same car..I saw three different mountings for the PAS pump on three different 280i that were only a year apart..My steering pump was moved for a couple of reason..

1. For easier access to the plugs...Steering UJ's and alternator.
2. For the fitment of a supercharger.

Supercharger



Here the PAS pump was replaced with an electric one which was put under the radiator and the alternator was moved to the N\S via a custom bracket..However the bolt holes for various mounting points were already on the cologne block so i guess this could of been the reason for TVR trying different mountings.

The US S3 280i had some additions as far as fuel relays and sensors i believe although I'm not too familiar with what they did or how they work.

As far as the metering head is concerned you should try the suggestion from Jeff as you have nothing to lose but ultimately it may need refurbing...As i say email Steve at kmi he is very helpful..Cheers...Ziga

benebob

365 posts

181 months

Sunday 28th September 2014
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John,
Are you sure that you just don't have a bad run/start relay? To me it sounds very similar to what I had with mine when I got it. Would start via the gas that was getting there when I used the starter but wouldn't "realize" it was running so would cut off fuel after you went to the on position for the key. Easy test would be to hardwire your fuel pump for a quick test.
Ben

pasogrande

375 posts

257 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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John,

I'm just wondering how you are getting on. From a recent post of yours it looks like you are almost there.

It still sounds to me like a fuel problem. I assume that you would have fuel leaking at the main fuel filter if you loosen the connection. If that is so, can you squirt some fuel into the throttle body and see if it runs for a few seconds? - sort of like we used to do with carburettor engines. Obviously this is a fire risk, but I am sure you will use common sense. That Cologne engine is remarkably unfussy.

If that fails, or you feel you are running on just a few cylinders, you are back to checking the spark. For a long time, mine has had a problem with getting electricity to the coil. The positive wire (green) has several breaks under the plenum, each nicely soldered. But I haven't found what is wrong, so I just put a temporary wire from the +ve on the battery to the +ve on the coil.

When you get it running, put some B12 in the tank and take it for a drive; that will clean the injectors.

Hope this helps - it's very basic.

Wilf.


jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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Update: As I mentioned before I found there was no compression in four of the cylinders. I expected stuck valves from the four years since the engine had run. I removed the valve covers and found that the exhaust valves in the four cylinders had no gap. I adjusted all valves and now have compression in all the cylinders. I had hopes this would resolve the starting issue even though I suspected the fuel injection system was gummed up in the fuel distributor. With everything reassembled the engine would still not start. I have been using external power to run the fuel pump so I can turn it on and off regardless of the position of the ignition switch. I found that if I cranked the engine a few seconds it would not start, but if I disconnected the fuel pump power and cranked the engine some more it would start and run for a few seconds. I can repeat this process and get the same results. Conclusion is the engine is flooding whenever the pump is running and after disconnecting the pump power the engine starts on the residual fuel in the system and runs until that fuel is consumed. I have found the fuel distributor plunger is stuck up in the full fuel flow position which matches the suspected flooding condition. I have removed the fuel distributor and warm up regulator and packaged them to send to a specialist for rebuild. Mean while I work on trying to get the lights to work!
Thanks to all for your help and will let you know the results after the fuel distributor is re-installed.
John

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Wednesday 12th November 2014
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Finally some good news. Yesterday after installing the rebuilt metering unit and warm up regulator ($725!!) the 85 Wedge started right up. The saga of getting it running has gone on for many months now and involved replacing or rebuilding every part from the fuel pump to the metering unit. Almost a thousand dollars worth of parts. In the forty years I have owned multiple British cars I think that is probably more than the average I have payed for them!
When started the exhaust had lots of smoke as expected for a engine that had not run for at least for 4 years, after a few minutes it cleared up. I have not actually driven it yet, just ran the engine while up on jack stands and run it through all the gears.

There are three adjustments on the fuel injection system: idle speed on the throttle plate, air bleed on the throttle body and the normally sealed adjustment (USA federal car) on the metering unit. Does anyone have a suggested adjustment process for them without any exhaust gas measurement equipment? Once warm the engine idled at about 2200 rpm so I lowered the idle with the idle speed screw to about 900. The air bleed screw was backed out almost 9 turns so I have turned it in to about 3. Its effect is not very obvious to the ear. I have not run across a air bleed on the throttle body of other of my cars (Corvette and Birkin 7) before so I do not know how it should be adjusted. The only process I have seen requires exhaust gas measurement. I would like to think the metering unit does not need to be adjusted. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Next is rebuild a leaking clutch slave (looks like fun to remove), check what I think is stuck emergency break linkage, check the diff and trans fluid, replace a headlight motor and go for the first ride!!

Thanks for all your help in the long process of reviving the Wedge,
John

jeff m2

2,060 posts

151 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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The throttle body screw on the lower side front gives you by pass air and should be all the adjustment you need.
There is an idle mixture adj on the fuel dist....do not touchsmile
That will have been set by the Bosche guy.

All other adjustments are taken care of by the WUR once it is hot.
During warm up the Aux Air Device plays a part.
Starting is a combination of AAD and thermotime switch.

Once running properly they are very reliable cars that usually start first time on the key.

The fuel system does appreciate Techron or similar occasionally and of course stabil during lay up.

It is possible your AAD is dirty and stuck open as your initial rpm was high, if it frees itself and closes (unlikely) your rpm will drop and you may need to open up your throttle body srcew again.

Maybe best to clean it now and check its operation by holding over a gas ring. (should close when heated)

As you have just shelled out 700 Bucks on the FD & WUR I suggest you change the big fuel filter, get a Bosche OEM, it's around $80 but worth it.

RCK974X

2,521 posts

149 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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As you can see on Zig's pic above, the throttle assembly is actually upside down, which shows the idle adjust screw beautifully!!

High Idle -

The throttle assy. does have a very small set screw on the [real] top, which is NOT for idle setting but is a stop for the throttle plate, so the plate closes without marking the side walls. In UK though, some people used it as an idle setting, which is WRONG!!

The Aux valve is the other likely cause of high idle, you should be able to look through it and see it is closed at cold/room temp. It can be electrical, as they do have a heating element in them (why the have a connector) , or it can simply be gummed up inside. Check power is present on unit whilst engine running. If gummed up, carb cleaner/petrol/paint thinners/WD40/ etc. will probably help.

Mixture -

I know US had much stricter rules, so the adjuster should be capped (?) , but here is quick adjustment procedure anyway, just in case -

A long 3mm allen key is required, insert into small adjuster hole between metering head and plastic flow cover (over the metering flap)

How -

If you *gently* push down, the mixture will be weakened, if you pull up, whilst slightly angling the allen key (for some side force to grip) the mixture will be richened. This is because you are actually moving the flap as it floats in the air stream.

The mixture should be set so the engine speed will fall immediately if key pushed, and engine speed should rise momentarily and then fall if key pulled. That's the way I do it anyway...

Turning key clockwise (= screwing in or tightening) makes mixture richer. If you keep track of where screw was, you can adjust both ways and see the effect. it's pretty sensitive, a quarter turn should be noticeable and a half turn definite difference....

Remember just the weight of the key affects the mixture slightly, even BEFORE you get you hands on it, so be very conservative until you get used to it.

If you've done cars for a while, you can smell rich and weak mixtures at the tail pipe....

Hope this helps !!













mrzigazaga

18,551 posts

165 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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jforrester42 said:
The saga of getting it running has gone on for many months now and involved replacing or rebuilding every part from the fuel pump to the metering unit. Almost a thousand dollars worth of parts. In the forty years I have owned multiple British cars I think that is probably more than the average I have payed for them!
Hi mate..Sounds awfully familiar to me...I spent treble that...This can all be down to leaving them sat about for years and then deciding one day that you are going to drive it..As in my case...Delilah had been sat in a garage for 11 years by a previous owner...Unbeknown to me i must add!..Then the key was turned and the new keeper decided to go for a spirited drive ..Well the fuel tank was full of rust which subsequently got sucked all the way to the injectors destroying everything in its path!...

As suggested the idle could be high due to the AAD..They can be easily cleaned with some carb cleaner or brake and clutch cleaner...Remove the unit, Spray in a liberal amount of cleaner and place thumb and finger over both opening and give it a good shake..Repeat until clean fluid comes out...You can check the mechanical operation by warming it up once the cleaner has dried..I prefer to use a heat gun..When hot the plate should close..Put into the fridge and after about 5-10mins it should of opened again and you will see a half moon or a "D" shaped opening...

You could also have a vacuum leak which will cause a high idle with and no adjustment on idle screws or whatevers will do anything...A good place to check is the inlet manifold gasket..You can actually put your palm over the oil filler tube with the cap off while the engine is running and if it sucks quite strongly on your palm then you will have a leaking manifold gasket...They are known for leaking at the Distributor end due to the cork on the gasket getting squashed.

The metering head unit should of been set to the factory default when rebuilt and should not need adjusting..The adjustments are very small, A quarter inch turn at a time is significant but i would only do this as a last resort..IF needed!.

Check all the hoses for splits and air leaks due to weak clips..

I think mine used to idle at around 650-700rpm.. If your AAD is knackered then i may have one you can have.....Cheers...Ziga

Sardonicus

18,952 posts

221 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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Generally with K Jetronic when you blip the throttle with the motor hot if you find the motor dips below your regular idle speed then this is a sign of richness if it just drops straight to idle with no dip and the idle is not splashy/irregular (weak) then your CO is not far out IMO this is only reference to the 2.8 Cologne set up though wink

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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Thanks for all the tips. I will not touch the metering unit screw until I am sure everything else is ok. I will remove the AAD and clean it. The AAD, the injectors, and the wide open throttle switch are the only injection parts that have not been replaced or rebuilt. I do not think there are any vacuum leaks. It has a new Bosch filter and I added a filter between the swirl pot and the fuel pump. I have cleaned the swirl pot, replaced the lower hoses, and flushed the tanks and added Seafoam each time. I do not actually know the internal condition of the tanks, the gauge reads half full which I know is incorrect and the sender may be stuck from the extended storage time.
Cheers to all,
John

RCK974X

2,521 posts

149 months

Thursday 13th November 2014
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Yeah, I forgot to mention the obvious - a vacuum leak in one of the many rubber pipes.....

Fuel guage - Mine stopped working and stuck at 1/4 full, and after running out of gas on the highway and a stack of hassle, when I got it home I discovered the fuel sender unit was broken.

The unit has a small brass or copper 'head' which runs on the resistance wire 'former'. This head had dropped out, and the wiper had jammed between two wires, because it had a burr where the head was originally pressed in.

I replaced the head with a small nut and bolt, and sanded the head so it was completely smooth (still had the slot, which I set so it was at right angles to the wires) and it's worked fine ever since....

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Friday 14th November 2014
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I removed and cleaned the AAD. I cycled it hot and cold a couple of times to see the disk valve move both with external heat and by hot wiring the internal heater. Not sure I ever got it completely hot like it may on the car. I never did see it get completely closed to where it would be air tight. The disk does move and you can feel the internal spring tension with a small probe. I decided it was ok and put it back on the engine. The engine starts instantly and runs well. The idle speed did not change much after re-installation of the AAD. I set the idle to about 750 rpm with the screw on the throttle body. I adjusted the air bleed screw in until it made a drop in the idle speed and then backed it out one turn. Engine seems to run very well. Only thing I noticed is when the throttle is opened quickly there is a slight hesitation as the engine first gains RPMs. The wide open throttle switch has been disconnected and the vacuum line plugged by a previous owner. Possible cause? I may try to check the switch and reconnect it. When I get the car off the jack stands I will see how the engine responds under load.
Now that the engine is running I found both of the front mufflers are leaking. Any thoughts about just replacing them, eliminating them or suggested modifications to the exhaust system?
Thanks as always,
John

RCK974X

2,521 posts

149 months

Friday 14th November 2014
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I seem to remember that the later style AAD closes to a small hole ?? Hmmm. could be wrong...
Anyway, if it opens when warm/hot, probably working fine..

RCK974X

2,521 posts

149 months

Friday 14th November 2014
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The Euro 2.8i doesn't have a throttle switch by the way - not sure how it affects the US setup.

mrzigazaga

18,551 posts

165 months

Friday 14th November 2014
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jforrester42 said:
Now that the engine is running I found both of the front mufflers are leaking. Any thoughts about just replacing them, eliminating them or suggested modifications to the exhaust system?
Hi John...Sounds like you are making progress..Not sure the AAD does actually close to air tight.

As far as the centre mufflers are concerned i think you have the Ford units from the Capri mk3 which are still obtainable if you want originality or maybe something to deepen the tone a bit, Something like a flow master..I removed mine and put cherry bombs in there instead...This meant that the pipes could run from the down pipes straight back to the rear valance...And put me up to 107db...However this didn't last as i soon removed the rear silencers as well which put it up to 119db...biggrin

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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Zig,
How do you get through MOT at 119db? I don't think my Birkin or Caterham were that loud. Do you have a catalytic converter, would your car normally have one? The head pipes on my car come together, then through the Cat, then split again with the two mufflers on reach side. There is a O2 sensor, ECU and a fuel pressure regulator modulator to meet the USA emissions. Here in Oklahoma there is no auto inspection of any type so engine mods are not a problem. I do think the local police would take exception to 119 db!
Cheers,
John

mrzigazaga

18,551 posts

165 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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Hi mate...Well to be fair it was measured that at 4000rpm at a Wedgefest...In the UK anything pre-1993 didn't require a cat..The last MOT that i took Delilah to the inspector did say that it wouldn't pass the next one as its too loud..He suggested a sympathetic inspector so i said i would take it to him then to which he gave me a look of disgust...biggrin

Delilah caused loads of funny moments..I do miss her but im in love now with Poppy..

I had stainless steel manifolds/Headers made to a slightly bigger bore and was planning on getting a custom built mid muffler to create the sound i wanted..But never did..I wonder how she got on with her new owner at the MOT??

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Saturday 13th December 2014
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Yesterday the Wedge went down the road for the first time since I bought it in February!!! Also the first time I had ever driven a Wedge. A lot different than my Vixen S2 of a few years back.
A few observations: Steering seemed heavy for a car with relatively narrow tires. Could it be since the front has not been aligned after I replaced the control rod bushings. It also looked like one front tire had more camber than the other. Since there is no adjustment I assume I may need to replace bushings.
The engine seemed a little flat and the car felt like one with a high axle ratio, seemed to like to rev to make noticeable power, normal?
I am 5 foot ten inches tall and the seating position is odd for me. The steering wheel is low and interferes with my legs and I have to wrap my leg under the wheel to reach the brake pedal. I had the seats reupholstered and I suspect the seat bottom is thicker than original, raising the seating position. I have lowered the seat as far down as possible by removing the carpet, the washers and the heat shield from under the seat rails. I will inspect the steering post where it does through the fire wall next. The shaft can be moved up and down a bit at the fire wall and that makes the steering wheel lower.
The ride quality is better than I expected and the chassis is tight and quiet.
I have not added up the cost to get it on the road but I am sure it is more than I paid for the car.
All of the electrics are now working except the horn which I have not investigated. Windows and head lamps were both stuck from the long time off the road and one defective head lamp motor, next most common problem was switches that needed contacts cleaned.
The weather is a bit cool for a car that still does not have a top but a longer run should raise my confidence. I suspect like most TVRs I will never be done working on it!

Thanks to all of you for the much needed advice and encouragement!
John

RCK974X

2,521 posts

149 months

Saturday 13th December 2014
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Can't be sure, as yours is a USA one, but from European angle...

Yes gearing is very tall, diff is the Jag V12 one (3.07:1), but that's only slightly taller than Euro Capri 2.8 at 3.08. That's why you don't really need a 5 speeder !

I think the engine is a bit 'flatter' on USA models, and will have lower compression etc, for the crap standard of gas they sell in USA biglaugh I think its official output was 10 or 15 bhp lower than Euro ones ? Something like that anyway.

Euro ones have to contend with detonation now that everyone sells the same (at original ignition settings at least), and I have been writing up my experiments here.

You might try advancing timing in small steps to see if it livens up the motor without any detonation, original UK spec was 12BTDC, 9 for carb engines, mine runs nicely at about 10 with 98 E10 unleaded.

Steering isn't all that heavy, but definitely feels a bit stiff after being used to power on most modern cars, but it's nicely sharp. Always worth checking bushes and alignment.

Clutch can be heavy too, and mine had a design fault from manufacture which breaks the cable after a while (see other threads here)

I'm 6' 5" and my seat is sagging, which suits just fine !! I did put a rubber mat under the straps to make it a bit softer, but I guess my arse is close to the floor, I can fit with roof on, and column is OK for me... Are they the original seats ?



Edited by RCK974X on Saturday 13th December 23:25

jforrester42

Original Poster:

55 posts

117 months

Sunday 14th December 2014
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3.07 makes since with the "flat" feel. I will have to get used to using lower gears than my TR-6 around town. No detonation so I will look at the timing. Gas here in Oklahoma is actually pretty good. I buy no ethanol ($2.29 a gallon) with a USA rating of 91 octane. Normal E10 this morning was $2.17 a US gallon! A bit cheaper than in the UK!
My car has a hydraulic clutch and the feel is good, I think all US cars had a hydraulic clutch system.
Sounds like your seat cushion is MUCH lower than mine. I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Thanks for your comments,
John