fuel pump power 85 wedge federal
Discussion
jforrester42 said:
3.07 makes since with the "flat" feel. I will have to get used to using lower gears than my TR-6 around town. No detonation so I will look at the timing. Gas here in Oklahoma is actually pretty good. I buy no ethanol ($2.29 a gallon) with a USA rating of 91 octane. Normal E10 this morning was $2.17 a US gallon! A bit cheaper than in the UK!
My car has a hydraulic clutch and the feel is good, I think all US cars had a hydraulic clutch system.
Sounds like your seat cushion is MUCH lower than mine. I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Thanks for your comments,
John
OOPS !! Stupid me - Yes, I forgot that the LHD versions had hyd. clutch !!My car has a hydraulic clutch and the feel is good, I think all US cars had a hydraulic clutch system.
Sounds like your seat cushion is MUCH lower than mine. I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Thanks for your comments,
John
Yes, I think TR6 officially had different ratio for USA....3.77 (and carbs) as I remember, whilst in UK it was 3.45 with the PI system....perhaps it might even be worth considering a different Jag ratio for the wedge, there's lots, but not sure if availability is easy for you. I think they are all interchangeable ??
Yeah, I reckon my seat cushion is probably 2 inches or less, and straps almost touch the floor when I'm sat in it, if that helps any.
Can you get 95 Octane there? We call that 'super' in NZ, but it costs $2(NZ) per LITRE, which I reckon must be about 7 (ish) US dollars , and the E10 is a few cents more...
Edited by RCK974X on Monday 15th December 01:08
Wow, two inches for the seat thickness. Just measured mine a 5 inches from the bottom to the top at the front of the cushion. Does not change much with me in it, cushion is pretty firm. Three inches would make a world of difference in the gap to the bottom of the wheel.
I do not recall seeing 95 octane since they changed they way they rate it here in the US some years ago. Local premium is 93. Regular is 87 E10. My 86 Corvette is very happy with the 93. TR-6 seems to run on most any rating. My 2014 Ford Fusion "Eco Tech" 2 litre turbo is happy with the 87 and Ford claims it is ok with up to E15. For the older cars I use no ethanol fuel.
I will try to get used to the gear ratios before thinking of changing the axle ratio.
Thanks again,
John
I do not recall seeing 95 octane since they changed they way they rate it here in the US some years ago. Local premium is 93. Regular is 87 E10. My 86 Corvette is very happy with the 93. TR-6 seems to run on most any rating. My 2014 Ford Fusion "Eco Tech" 2 litre turbo is happy with the 87 and Ford claims it is ok with up to E15. For the older cars I use no ethanol fuel.
I will try to get used to the gear ratios before thinking of changing the axle ratio.
Thanks again,
John
jforrester42 said:
I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Hi John...I had this problem in my 1982 280i..I opted for a smaller Mountney steering wheel....I think it was originally 13.5-14" so i went for a 12" or could of even been 11.5"..It made a world of difference...It was also semi-dished which was what was on there originally...Cheers...Zigamrzigazaga said:
jforrester42 said:
I had the seats reupholstered and did not pay attention to how thick the cushion came out. They look and feel very good but the wheel and leg interference is a real problem.
Hi John...I had this problem in my 1982 280i..I opted for a smaller Mountney steering wheel....I think it was originally 13.5-14" so i went for a 12" or could of even been 11.5"..It made a world of difference...It was also semi-dished which was what was on there originally...Cheers...ZigaA dinner plate size wheel may not be much fun unless you have arms like Popeye.
The stock Momo wheel on the car measures 13.5 inches and is slightly dished. I don't think I want to go smaller without power steering. I defiantly don't have Popeye arms. I have a appointment with the upholstery shop that did the seats for me on Friday to see about making the seat cushion thinner. Will also discuss replacing the top and recovering the top panel outside and inside. Going to go with low maintenance vinyl in place of the original cloth.
I have deleted both front mufflers and the exhaust does not seem to loud.
"Up to 10% ethanol" 87 octane fuel dropped to $2.03 a gallon today here in NE Oklahoma
Cheers,
John
I have deleted both front mufflers and the exhaust does not seem to loud.
"Up to 10% ethanol" 87 octane fuel dropped to $2.03 a gallon today here in NE Oklahoma
Cheers,
John
jforrester42 said:
"Up to 10% ethanol" 87 octane fuel dropped to $2.03 a gallon today here in NE Oklahoma...
John
MY God... I wish !!! NZ prices dropped to $1.87 per LITRE for 91 Octane yesterday.... = US$ 5.45, if I've got the conversion factors right....John
Bloody government fuel taxes....I bet the UK price is even *more* !!
Info -
In NZ, 91 is the 'standard' gas, 95 is 'super' and some places do E10 98 Octane = 10% ethanol, at extra cost...
In UK, 4 star leaded, what 2.8 engine was originally designed for, is 98 Octane
I wonder if the octane ratings are the same around the world? Ratings used to be much higher in the US due to the "Motors" method of testing. There was also the "Research" method that gave a lower number. They changed some years ago to the average of the two methods. My 1970 Chevrolet SS called for 100 octane when it was new. With the introduction of unleaded fuel the numbers also went down. For some time there was no "high octane" fuel and the SS ran so poorly on the available fuel I sold the car. Most of the old cars seem to be ok now with the current so called "premium". Any idea on comparisons of the fuel ratings around the world?? Interesting your 98 octane uses E10. E10 fuels here are cheaper than no ethanol and are pretty much the standard. The corn producers and refiners are trying to get E15 to be standard but many manufacturers and car enthusiasts are against it. E85 is available in some areas but has not been well accepted due to the lower energy content and decreased mileage
Cheers,
John
Cheers,
John
That's a good question, I don't know.... I thought that octane rating was a universal method, but can't say I'm surprised to find it's not...
I vaguely remember reading something about the compression ratio giving a fairly true comparison, but then modern head designs and multi valve changed that....
I didn't realise the US used a smaller gallon than the imperial one for a long time...
Hmmm.... will look it up on Wikipedia
Ahh - I see there *IS* a difference according to the octane article, which implies your posted octane values are about 6 lower than NZ,Aus,Europe..... interesting.
wikipedia article gives a big list of products for comparison - interesting to read...
I vaguely remember reading something about the compression ratio giving a fairly true comparison, but then modern head designs and multi valve changed that....
I didn't realise the US used a smaller gallon than the imperial one for a long time...
Hmmm.... will look it up on Wikipedia
Ahh - I see there *IS* a difference according to the octane article, which implies your posted octane values are about 6 lower than NZ,Aus,Europe..... interesting.
wikipedia article gives a big list of products for comparison - interesting to read...
Edited by RCK974X on Thursday 18th December 04:41
Hi RCK974X. I've read with interest the saga of bring to life your Wedge after a few years.
I think I'll be facing similar problems in the future. I've bought a 2.8i Wedge which was last on the road 12 years ago. Since then the engine has been removed, dismantled etc. The car re-uphostered and stored. I fully expect after I've rebuilt the engine to be faced with similar problems of fuel component degradation. Judging from your past experience what would be your advice on re-commisioning the fuel system to prevent contamination if possible? Obviously the fuel tanks would be an initial issue? What to clean/flush them with? Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou. J C.
I think I'll be facing similar problems in the future. I've bought a 2.8i Wedge which was last on the road 12 years ago. Since then the engine has been removed, dismantled etc. The car re-uphostered and stored. I fully expect after I've rebuilt the engine to be faced with similar problems of fuel component degradation. Judging from your past experience what would be your advice on re-commisioning the fuel system to prevent contamination if possible? Obviously the fuel tanks would be an initial issue? What to clean/flush them with? Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou. J C. Hi John....My 280i was sat in a garage for 11 years without so much as a thought of being used...The guy i bought it off thought it would be a good idea to stick a battery on her and take her for a drive...BIG mistake..This dragged rust right up to the injectors...Which meant it had passed through the pump..Accumulator...Bulkhead fuel filter...Metering head...Fuel cooler...WUR....And finally injectors...Then i come along...My O/S fuel tank was rusty which meant i had to find another which i was fortunate to do..I had the fuel lines changed..The accumulator was replaced..The metering head was refurbished..The WUR was refurbished..The injectors were replaced and all the plastic high pressure fuel lines were blasted through with air....This was all very expensive to do.
Even if the tanks are rusty and you have been fortunate that some pea brain hasn't run it after its sat for an eternity then there is still the possibility that the fuel has gummed up the plunger in the metering head and the fine fuel filter inside has gone rusty, It like a piece of silk its so thin..The WUR could be gummed up and stuck and also the injectors could be blocked...I would say you will definitely need the metering head unit refurbished and you will be able to get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned...You can send most of the bits off to this chap who knows everything there is to know about the K-Jetronic systems, He is also a friendly guy who will have the time to talk to you...His name is Steve and this is the company:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
If you don't follow this procedure then you will most certainly be running round in circles and it won't be in the Wedge!..Trust me..Ive been there..Seen the movie..Read the book and have the T shirt..Oh and also a rat car award...
Cheers...Ziga
Even if the tanks are rusty and you have been fortunate that some pea brain hasn't run it after its sat for an eternity then there is still the possibility that the fuel has gummed up the plunger in the metering head and the fine fuel filter inside has gone rusty, It like a piece of silk its so thin..The WUR could be gummed up and stuck and also the injectors could be blocked...I would say you will definitely need the metering head unit refurbished and you will be able to get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned...You can send most of the bits off to this chap who knows everything there is to know about the K-Jetronic systems, He is also a friendly guy who will have the time to talk to you...His name is Steve and this is the company:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
If you don't follow this procedure then you will most certainly be running round in circles and it won't be in the Wedge!..Trust me..Ive been there..Seen the movie..Read the book and have the T shirt..Oh and also a rat car award...
Cheers...Ziga
So basically a renewal of most of the fuel system? 
What's the best method of cleaning out a fuel tank? Set fire to it and buy another?
Seriously though, is there a liquid cleaner that could "de-crap" a fuel tank? J CHi John...There are loads of ways to remove the rust from fuel tanks...I read that vinegar is the cheapest and best...
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
There are also POR15 products that you can buy to seal the inside with a plastic covering...I would however check the latest on that to make sure the modern fuel additives are okay with it...But if the rust is only surface and you can remove it with the vinegar then i wouldn't bother as long as the car is going to be used regularly i would opt for something like:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
Once you have cleaned it out get an endoscope in there for a good look and have it pressure tested to make sure it doesn't leak...I would also coat the outside of the tank with something....Cheers...Ziga
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
There are also POR15 products that you can buy to seal the inside with a plastic covering...I would however check the latest on that to make sure the modern fuel additives are okay with it...But if the rust is only surface and you can remove it with the vinegar then i wouldn't bother as long as the car is going to be used regularly i would opt for something like:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
Once you have cleaned it out get an endoscope in there for a good look and have it pressure tested to make sure it doesn't leak...I would also coat the outside of the tank with something....Cheers...Ziga
Anything from putting Christmas lights up which work in the box but fail on installation.
Cheers J C.John,
I'm not sure if you've got the right wedger.... My 2.8 hasn't been off the road for more than 7 months at a time, I do try to run it now and again to keep things moving. Even when I moved to NZ, the wedge was in a container for around 4 months - it fired up first time, I didn't even have to recharge the battery !
I agree with Zig, the K system has too many small holes/apertures, and it's all too easy for old fuel to gum it up. I suggest you get the all components flushed and cleaned, fit new filter, and clean out the fuel tank (and check it for rust and any leaks. Once you get muck in the system it can be too late....and more expensive.
I've changed the main fuel filter a couple of times. In my opinion, there is a design fault, there is no filter before the pump (Ford Capri/Granny didn't have one either, but the fuel feed wasn't right at the lowest point in the tank like the wedge.) I also bought some new injectors about 8 years ago, they definitely make for smoother running at idle and light throttle.
Engine rebuild - if it's all apart, a couple of things - it's worth considering a steel camshaft drive, as the fibre ones can shred, and definitely worth changing core plugs. Be very gentle with the thermostat housings, as they are all alluminium, and hard to find nowadays.
If you've got the money, possible unleaded head conversion, although mine is still happily running around after almost 20 years of unleaded, but I haven't rebuilt the engine since it enjoyed leaded 4 star, so may well still have some lead around the castings - I do use the Valvemaster stuff.
Depending where you are at in the process, a 2.9 V6 will bolt right in, and has EFi, (but I'm not convinced the exhaust will go in easily....) There was a 2.8Efi, but VERY rare...
I'm not sure if you've got the right wedger.... My 2.8 hasn't been off the road for more than 7 months at a time, I do try to run it now and again to keep things moving. Even when I moved to NZ, the wedge was in a container for around 4 months - it fired up first time, I didn't even have to recharge the battery !
I agree with Zig, the K system has too many small holes/apertures, and it's all too easy for old fuel to gum it up. I suggest you get the all components flushed and cleaned, fit new filter, and clean out the fuel tank (and check it for rust and any leaks. Once you get muck in the system it can be too late....and more expensive.
I've changed the main fuel filter a couple of times. In my opinion, there is a design fault, there is no filter before the pump (Ford Capri/Granny didn't have one either, but the fuel feed wasn't right at the lowest point in the tank like the wedge.) I also bought some new injectors about 8 years ago, they definitely make for smoother running at idle and light throttle.
Engine rebuild - if it's all apart, a couple of things - it's worth considering a steel camshaft drive, as the fibre ones can shred, and definitely worth changing core plugs. Be very gentle with the thermostat housings, as they are all alluminium, and hard to find nowadays.
If you've got the money, possible unleaded head conversion, although mine is still happily running around after almost 20 years of unleaded, but I haven't rebuilt the engine since it enjoyed leaded 4 star, so may well still have some lead around the castings - I do use the Valvemaster stuff.
Depending where you are at in the process, a 2.9 V6 will bolt right in, and has EFi, (but I'm not convinced the exhaust will go in easily....) There was a 2.8Efi, but VERY rare...
Thanks RCK974X. Yep' according to the stamps on the heads they are unleaded. The engine is in pieces, core plug, big end bolts obtain from Burton Power with new main/con rod shells to fit. As far as I can tell the fuel system is as when the engine was removed. So tank and pump clean, replace accumulator/filters. I'll take your advice and get the fuel distributor, injectors etc checked. Cheers J C.
Andy,
The Wiki write up on octane is pretty good, I should have thought to look there. Sure is a variety of octane ratings and test methods around the world.
John (UK),
I think after eleven years Zigas Wedge had all the possible problems with the fuel system. I was a little more fortunate as my car ONLY sat four years. My fuel pump was frozen/gummed up so there was no chance to pump crud through the rest of the system. I started at the tank(s) and drained ugly fuel that smelled like varnish.There was no sign of rust or other particles. I removed the outlet hoses and the fuel swirl tank, they were gummed up so new hoses and a through cleaning of the swirl pot. After that I added new fuel and a heavy concentration of Sea Foam. I repeated the process a number of times and the fuel was discolored but still no particles and looked better each time. I had to replace the fuel pump and the accumulator (it leaked). I added a filter between the swirl pot and the pump. I blew out the hoses and replaced the primary filter. Engine would still not run. As Ziga mentioned the metering unit and the WOR were both gummed up. I sent them off for rebuild to a specialist here in the states ($725). Upon return and installation the engine fired right up. I have since cleaned the Aux air bypass valve and the engine runs well. It looks like I lucked out with the injectors so I have not touched them. I have only driven the car a few miles so I HOPE not to develop problems with the FI. The gas gauge is stuck at half full so it is probably gummed up as well. I don't think I have put in enough fuel yet to reach the sender.
So good luck and do everything Ziga suggests!
Cheers,
John (USA)
The Wiki write up on octane is pretty good, I should have thought to look there. Sure is a variety of octane ratings and test methods around the world.
John (UK),
I think after eleven years Zigas Wedge had all the possible problems with the fuel system. I was a little more fortunate as my car ONLY sat four years. My fuel pump was frozen/gummed up so there was no chance to pump crud through the rest of the system. I started at the tank(s) and drained ugly fuel that smelled like varnish.There was no sign of rust or other particles. I removed the outlet hoses and the fuel swirl tank, they were gummed up so new hoses and a through cleaning of the swirl pot. After that I added new fuel and a heavy concentration of Sea Foam. I repeated the process a number of times and the fuel was discolored but still no particles and looked better each time. I had to replace the fuel pump and the accumulator (it leaked). I added a filter between the swirl pot and the pump. I blew out the hoses and replaced the primary filter. Engine would still not run. As Ziga mentioned the metering unit and the WOR were both gummed up. I sent them off for rebuild to a specialist here in the states ($725). Upon return and installation the engine fired right up. I have since cleaned the Aux air bypass valve and the engine runs well. It looks like I lucked out with the injectors so I have not touched them. I have only driven the car a few miles so I HOPE not to develop problems with the FI. The gas gauge is stuck at half full so it is probably gummed up as well. I don't think I have put in enough fuel yet to reach the sender.
So good luck and do everything Ziga suggests!
Cheers,
John (USA)
All good advice....
Gas gauge - for info....
My gauge 'stuck' at 1/4 full, and I ran out of gas. It turned out the sender had jammed, because the little 'pip' on the end of the sender wiper arm had fallen off (inside the sender is a wire coil and a 'wiper' as it's really just a variable resistor). Where the pip had fallen out was a burr sharp enough to lock itself into a tiny gap between the wires....
I did flush the tank whilst it was empty, as I was worried, but it was clean, apart from a bit of sand, and that pip. Lucky I guess. Washed out pump and it seemed OK.
Fixed sender by using a small nut and bolt, and polishing the head so it runs smoothly over the wires. Been fine since then.... made a new gasket for sender with two layers of thin cardboard (a breakfast cereal box) and gasket sealer.
Gas gauge - for info....
My gauge 'stuck' at 1/4 full, and I ran out of gas. It turned out the sender had jammed, because the little 'pip' on the end of the sender wiper arm had fallen off (inside the sender is a wire coil and a 'wiper' as it's really just a variable resistor). Where the pip had fallen out was a burr sharp enough to lock itself into a tiny gap between the wires....
I did flush the tank whilst it was empty, as I was worried, but it was clean, apart from a bit of sand, and that pip. Lucky I guess. Washed out pump and it seemed OK.
Fixed sender by using a small nut and bolt, and polishing the head so it runs smoothly over the wires. Been fine since then.... made a new gasket for sender with two layers of thin cardboard (a breakfast cereal box) and gasket sealer.
My wedge is a 1982 softop with twin tanks. I know that the arrangement of the tanks did change a little between the models, so yours may be slightly different to this.
The sender is on the side of the Euro driver's side (RHD) tank, and faces inwards. It's visible when you're under the car, but not very obvious, you have to have your head in the right place, as it lurks partially behind one of the rails.
Mine actually had a stain from a slight leak from sender gasket, which I realised when I got to look, so it's possible it had been fiddled with before, and might be why the pip fell off.... Anyway I knew I needed to make a new gasket....but that stain helped me find the sender !
Tanks are only just in front of diff, as I remember the sender was just about where the driveshaft/propshaft 'tunnel' chassis rails end, and the 'cage' around the diff begins, and it's a bit fiddly to get the bolts out. (on mine sender held in with 6 slot head bolts).
Hope that helps !!
The sender is on the side of the Euro driver's side (RHD) tank, and faces inwards. It's visible when you're under the car, but not very obvious, you have to have your head in the right place, as it lurks partially behind one of the rails.
Mine actually had a stain from a slight leak from sender gasket, which I realised when I got to look, so it's possible it had been fiddled with before, and might be why the pip fell off.... Anyway I knew I needed to make a new gasket....but that stain helped me find the sender !
Tanks are only just in front of diff, as I remember the sender was just about where the driveshaft/propshaft 'tunnel' chassis rails end, and the 'cage' around the diff begins, and it's a bit fiddly to get the bolts out. (on mine sender held in with 6 slot head bolts).
Hope that helps !!
Edited by RCK974X on Friday 19th December 19:05
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