Back Tracking.....
Discussion
Worth a try!
Am calm and fully intend to be methodical.
Not gonna have much time today but willing to wager it'll start today for some reason. The problem is recreating the fault without getting stranded. Multi meter at the ready...
Anyway back to basics. Fuel pressure gauge and spark indicators at the ready.
@superwedge - yhm
Closing FTSA low loader index 4.5k!
Am calm and fully intend to be methodical.
Not gonna have much time today but willing to wager it'll start today for some reason. The problem is recreating the fault without getting stranded. Multi meter at the ready...
Anyway back to basics. Fuel pressure gauge and spark indicators at the ready.
@superwedge - yhm
Closing FTSA low loader index 4.5k!
Edited by smash on Saturday 2nd August 17:37
Smacks of bad earth(s), failing 'Ignition' relay(s) (some cars have two in parallel but they still cook), sticking solenoid.
Steering module has nothing to do with the starter motor, just the fuelling so ignore that. If it cranks but won't start, doesn't even fire occasionally and it smells of fuel then the likeliest scenario is that it's just the cold start injector spraying, the ECU isn't firing the injectors and the fuel that is there isn't being lit because you have no sparks - which again could point to the main engine earth to battery being crap or the main 'Ignition' relay(s) are shot, sending no juice to the coil.
Try taking a wire from battery positive to the coil (+) and see if it'll then start.
Then find the main ignition relays and check them out. Then report back
Steering module has nothing to do with the starter motor, just the fuelling so ignore that. If it cranks but won't start, doesn't even fire occasionally and it smells of fuel then the likeliest scenario is that it's just the cold start injector spraying, the ECU isn't firing the injectors and the fuel that is there isn't being lit because you have no sparks - which again could point to the main engine earth to battery being crap or the main 'Ignition' relay(s) are shot, sending no juice to the coil.
Try taking a wire from battery positive to the coil (+) and see if it'll then start.
Then find the main ignition relays and check them out. Then report back
Right so full charged battery reconnected.
Cranking with good fuel pressure but not firing.
Attach direct lead from +ve to coil +ve - I hear fuel injectors click.
Cranking but not firing.
I attach a couple of spark indicators to number 2 and number 8.
Cranking no spark
I hold king lead to plenum.
Cranking and spark from king lead (not amazing)
I swap dizzy cap back to original car came with.
Cranking no spark
I swap rotor arm back to original car came with.
Cranking and then spark starts weak at first - no firing.
Cranking strong indicator light on firing but also dimly lighting for all other cylinders firing - is this tracking?
Cranking for a minute with foot flat on floor - car starts to fire. Runs very rough misfiring for 10 seconds cuts out
Crank again with WOT and car fires running rough will not idle until 20/30 seconds rough reving - idles briefly then cuts out.
Switch rotor arm back cranking and no spark.
Switch again and sparking but doesn't really want to fire.
All a bit weird and still don't understand how the car could be running and driving Saturday and then just cut out if it's rotor arm/cap issue. Also wondering whether the new magnecors are actually sitting right down into the cap and making good connection. Bit confusing. A mate of mine said that a knackered battery can play havoc with EFi system - is that possible?
Cranking with good fuel pressure but not firing.
Attach direct lead from +ve to coil +ve - I hear fuel injectors click.
Cranking but not firing.
I attach a couple of spark indicators to number 2 and number 8.
Cranking no spark
I hold king lead to plenum.
Cranking and spark from king lead (not amazing)
I swap dizzy cap back to original car came with.
Cranking no spark
I swap rotor arm back to original car came with.
Cranking and then spark starts weak at first - no firing.
Cranking strong indicator light on firing but also dimly lighting for all other cylinders firing - is this tracking?
Cranking for a minute with foot flat on floor - car starts to fire. Runs very rough misfiring for 10 seconds cuts out
Crank again with WOT and car fires running rough will not idle until 20/30 seconds rough reving - idles briefly then cuts out.
Switch rotor arm back cranking and no spark.
Switch again and sparking but doesn't really want to fire.
All a bit weird and still don't understand how the car could be running and driving Saturday and then just cut out if it's rotor arm/cap issue. Also wondering whether the new magnecors are actually sitting right down into the cap and making good connection. Bit confusing. A mate of mine said that a knackered battery can play havoc with EFi system - is that possible?
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 17:34
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 17:43
OK so you have at lease one duff rotor arm. I think this might be endemic with modern rotor arms - as I had the same problem - ran lovely and then cut out after a few weeks. I found the spark had burnt right through the insulation of the rotor arm so it was arcing to earth.
Even the one you have put back on might be a bit dodgy. Did you say in your previous thread that you had also replaced the coil and probably the ignition amp?
So - you need to sort out the spark first. You would expect a nice strong spark at the king lead so get this sorted first. When you have this, then go through the dizzy and check the spark at a plug lead. It should be a bit weaker but not hugely - say about half the strength.
Once you have the spark sorted we can move on to the next stage.
Even the one you have put back on might be a bit dodgy. Did you say in your previous thread that you had also replaced the coil and probably the ignition amp?
So - you need to sort out the spark first. You would expect a nice strong spark at the king lead so get this sorted first. When you have this, then go through the dizzy and check the spark at a plug lead. It should be a bit weaker but not hugely - say about half the strength.
Once you have the spark sorted we can move on to the next stage.
Is the ignition amp known to be good? Intermittent spark when it warms up is typical ignition amp, also same symptoms for failing coil. Might as well replace both as a set if this has not already occurred.
Edit: for testing purposes, to reduce going round in circles, you could install a tester in line with the king lead.
Edit: for testing purposes, to reduce going round in circles, you could install a tester in line with the king lead.
Edited by V8 Fettler on Monday 4th August 18:18
Try and replace just one component at a time. E.g.:
1. Ignition amp.
2. Coil
3. Dizzy.
At each step, check the spark at the king lead. Stop replacing when it's good.
Then move on to the plug lead and if it's not good:
4. Rotor arm
5. Dizzy cap
6. Plug lead
Until it comes good (and stays good).
1. Ignition amp.
2. Coil
3. Dizzy.
At each step, check the spark at the king lead. Stop replacing when it's good.
Then move on to the plug lead and if it's not good:
4. Rotor arm
5. Dizzy cap
6. Plug lead
Until it comes good (and stays good).
For clarity I stuck a new ignition amp on the original dizzy, I also have a brand new complete dizzy i.e.new rotor arm, cap amp etc.
Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 19:21
smash said:
For clarity I stuck a new ignition amp on the original dizzy, I also have a brand new complete dizzy i.e.new rotor arm, cap amp etc.
Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
I cut the head off a brass screw (0BA? A few years ago now) and made it fit the dizzy cap and the in-line tester, wasn't a good fit but did the job. Not RV8 though, Pinto as I recall, but a dizzy cap is a dizzy cap. Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 19:21
The Curse of the Black "Pearl" continues....
I ring my local Europarts early morning for a coil - nonee on shelf but will have Bosch here for you by 1pm. borrow car and drive to Rayleigh at 1.30. Ah, sorry - it didn't turn up - we did definitely put the order in. Grrrr!!!
Anyways, back to business. Cleaned up the earth that goes to chassis nearside front nose and all associated straps. Also added an extra strap from bellhousing to AFM body which links down to chassis.
Took old dizzy out, put new dizzy in - still not sure about king lead spark - I mean how far's it supposed to jump etc? Anyway, definite spark and at plugs.
Wouldn't start - cranked with WOT for good 30/40 seconds before it started to catch and then eventually started rough as anything. It suddenly cleared and started idling and speeding up then cut out.
Again nearly impossible to start - currently guessed timing as couldn't get it running to adjust.
So not really any progress. I did notice when reving it after it cleared initially that it was doing the "banging" thing it had been doing at top end of revs when last out on road. Thought this may be down to weak mix as TPS set to zero.... cue the final curse - one of the TPS screws sheered off whilst adjusting - will need drilling out.
Given up on it for today. I need to check TDC manually and get timing roughly right I think but there is still something very wrong with the injection/ignition. Plus side the earths seem to have helped speed the windows going back up!
I ring my local Europarts early morning for a coil - nonee on shelf but will have Bosch here for you by 1pm. borrow car and drive to Rayleigh at 1.30. Ah, sorry - it didn't turn up - we did definitely put the order in. Grrrr!!!
Anyways, back to business. Cleaned up the earth that goes to chassis nearside front nose and all associated straps. Also added an extra strap from bellhousing to AFM body which links down to chassis.
Took old dizzy out, put new dizzy in - still not sure about king lead spark - I mean how far's it supposed to jump etc? Anyway, definite spark and at plugs.
Wouldn't start - cranked with WOT for good 30/40 seconds before it started to catch and then eventually started rough as anything. It suddenly cleared and started idling and speeding up then cut out.
Again nearly impossible to start - currently guessed timing as couldn't get it running to adjust.
So not really any progress. I did notice when reving it after it cleared initially that it was doing the "banging" thing it had been doing at top end of revs when last out on road. Thought this may be down to weak mix as TPS set to zero.... cue the final curse - one of the TPS screws sheered off whilst adjusting - will need drilling out.
Given up on it for today. I need to check TDC manually and get timing roughly right I think but there is still something very wrong with the injection/ignition. Plus side the earths seem to have helped speed the windows going back up!
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