350i Excessive play in steering wheel.
Discussion
Hi Peeps...I have noticed recently that i have excessive left to right play in the steering, Around 2-2.5"..If you move it fairly quickly you can hear a knocking near the bulkhead..I have had the steering rack refurbished...The top and bottom UJ's replaced and the bulkhead bush...I have also had the drop link..ARB..Leading link control arm bushes changed..
At the MOT the guy spent a fair amount of time on the front end as they deal with a lot of classic cars and said that the lower ball joints are fairly worn and the N/S has considerable wear..Im not convinced that this is the cause so I'm going to jack up the front and first check the UJ's...Has anyone experienced this before and have any pointers for me please...Thanks...Ziga
At the MOT the guy spent a fair amount of time on the front end as they deal with a lot of classic cars and said that the lower ball joints are fairly worn and the N/S has considerable wear..Im not convinced that this is the cause so I'm going to jack up the front and first check the UJ's...Has anyone experienced this before and have any pointers for me please...Thanks...Ziga
As already suggested fella 2.5 inche's of play is a lot and says more than top or bottom ball joint to me unless they are totally shot! Jack it up a put a pry bar in there. I would also look at the rack fixings, anti roll bar bushes and u bolt type fittings. If your getting a knock at the bulk head then I would examine the bulkhead bearing even if it's been done recently. Bottom line get the front of the car up and have a good root round with a torch and pry bar and somebody moving the steering for you 
So did it pass the MOT? 'Considerable wear' in a suspension ball-joint would be grounds for a fail.
When you say play from left to right, do you mean slack at the steering wheel?
It could be the upper column bush is shot, allowing the wheel to slop around even if the bulkhead bearing is OK.
If you can turn the road wheels without the steering wheel moving, see if the intermediate column does actually move (the section visible in the wheelarch). If it doesn't and the column UJs are OK, you need to be looking at the track rod ends and the steering rack itself. A worn rack and pinion is a rare thing.
When you say play from left to right, do you mean slack at the steering wheel?
It could be the upper column bush is shot, allowing the wheel to slop around even if the bulkhead bearing is OK.
If you can turn the road wheels without the steering wheel moving, see if the intermediate column does actually move (the section visible in the wheelarch). If it doesn't and the column UJs are OK, you need to be looking at the track rod ends and the steering rack itself. A worn rack and pinion is a rare thing.
Hi Ian...The MOT garage didn't fail it as he advised me to get it done but also knows that i will get it done...The steering wheel moves and so do the columns..Top and middle..Not sure about the bottom..The wheels don't move until about an 1-1.5 of movement..I will check the bottom column..The rack was refurbished about 8 months ago....Cheers...Ziga
2.5" is Rover P4 territory - when the recirculating ball steering box needs adjusting!
Mind you if you're just driving around sarf lahndahn and not the open road then it's no great shakes.
Does it feel the same whether you're parked or moving?
If you stand outside the car and look at the driver's side front wheel, while you wiggle the steering only an inch, do you see the wheel move (a tiny bit anyway) or nothing? If the former then the ball joint problem is more likely.
Mind you if you're just driving around sarf lahndahn and not the open road then it's no great shakes.
Does it feel the same whether you're parked or moving?
If you stand outside the car and look at the driver's side front wheel, while you wiggle the steering only an inch, do you see the wheel move (a tiny bit anyway) or nothing? If the former then the ball joint problem is more likely.
Looks like i won't be driving it until i have established whats causing it...The last bit of work i had done was having the leading link..Drop link and ARB bushes replaced with polyflex...The steering wheel nut is tight, As i said the top and centre column moves with it...I can't see the one connecting the centre to the rack ..Jack out me thinks...Have to wait till Monday as its no fun doing it on the roadside..Especially when its raining and cold...Cheers...Ziga
My new firewall bearing had to be refixed... So no play in the steering column.
Also the fixing of the steering column under the dash can be wobbly, even the clamp can do funny stuff.
Worth a look before taking everything apart.
If it would be suspension, then it would be something very serious and relativly easy to spot.
Rob
Also the fixing of the steering column under the dash can be wobbly, even the clamp can do funny stuff.
Worth a look before taking everything apart.
If it would be suspension, then it would be something very serious and relativly easy to spot.
Rob
mrzigazaga said:
Looks like i won't be driving it until i have established whats causing it...The last bit of work i had done was having the leading link..Drop link and ARB bushes replaced with polyflex...The steering wheel nut is tight, As i said the top and centre column moves with it...I can't see the one connecting the centre to the rack ..Jack out me thinks...Have to wait till Monday as its no fun doing it on the roadside..Especially when its raining and cold...Cheers...Ziga
Come on Mark, two more posts and you'll hit 12K 
Well i had a look ..Checked the rack was on tight..UJ bolts are good..Bulkhead bush is fine..What i did notice was the top UJ flexing at the join..Maybe the bearings have gone in it..Either way it looks naggered..It was replaced 7 months ago and i thought it would of lasted longer than that!...Ziga
Top and bottom steering U/J's do not go in 7 months fella... if its the top and you can feel it flexing is this when its on the stops i.e. at full lock or when you are swinging the steering from side to side? Did you have the car off the floor at the front when you tested this? Reason is that what you may think is the joint flexing is in fact the bulkhead bearing or slop in the rack, track rod ends / top and bottom swivels, the anti roll bar bushes or combination of all if there is wear.
When you say there is 2.5" of play is this 2.5 in the steering before the car starts to turn?? If so then 9-10 it will be a comnation of the top/bottom ball joints and or track rod ends. Any judder on driving or especially under braking? More symptoms needed on the patient!
Chris
When you say there is 2.5" of play is this 2.5 in the steering before the car starts to turn?? If so then 9-10 it will be a comnation of the top/bottom ball joints and or track rod ends. Any judder on driving or especially under braking? More symptoms needed on the patient!
Chris
Ziga, when you did the bulk head bearing and or UJ, did you check the clearance of the splined shafts coming through into the UJ?
I have just done mine and one thing that I fortunately noticed was that, through changing the bulk head bearing (for the mod), the inner shaft came through slightly more which in effect shortens the space slightly for the intermediate shaft to fit, which in effect meant that the splined shaft came through into the top UJ a little more and one position of the turning lock actually pushed onto the blocks of the UJ. I would imagine that this would put excessive pressure on the UJ in spots and quickly fail.
As said I was fortunate to notice this and so just knocked the splined shaft further apart by moving it down on the bottom UJ as much as it would go in its location.
Just a thought but worth checking if you've done the bulk head mod.
I have just done mine and one thing that I fortunately noticed was that, through changing the bulk head bearing (for the mod), the inner shaft came through slightly more which in effect shortens the space slightly for the intermediate shaft to fit, which in effect meant that the splined shaft came through into the top UJ a little more and one position of the turning lock actually pushed onto the blocks of the UJ. I would imagine that this would put excessive pressure on the UJ in spots and quickly fail.
As said I was fortunate to notice this and so just knocked the splined shaft further apart by moving it down on the bottom UJ as much as it would go in its location.
Just a thought but worth checking if you've done the bulk head mod.
Edited by stevoj on Monday 2nd February 14:13
Hi Chris..I managed to get the O/S wheel off the ground..As you know i live on a hill and the camber to the kerb is quite steep..I would of bumped it up the kerb but was parked next to a lamp post..Lack of parking I'm afraid...
When the steering wheel was rocked from left to right the wheel was moving even when it was around 1/2" of movement which doesn't happen with the wheel on the floor..I could also feel a bit of play in the connecting column...I physically held it and pulled it toward me and then pushed it back and could feel about 5mm of movement....All the bolts were tight..
When the steering is rocked you can see the top part of the top UJ moving upwards, Almost as if it wanted to fold in half at the pivot...If that makes sense..
Hi Steve...Thats a possibility..The bottom shaft from the rack is about 2" exposed from the bottom of the UJ....I thought they were not much longer than that?...
The top column is around 5-8mm passed the inner collar of the UJ and the connecting shaft is not visible in the opposite inner collar..Cant see the connecting shaft at the lower UJ..
How much resistance/Tension should there be in the actual pivot of the UJ?..I seem to recall when handling the UJ pre-fitment there being something like one ounce of pressure before the pivot came into play...Now it looks and feels like there is hardly any resistance...Does this make sense.....
When the steering wheel was rocked from left to right the wheel was moving even when it was around 1/2" of movement which doesn't happen with the wheel on the floor..I could also feel a bit of play in the connecting column...I physically held it and pulled it toward me and then pushed it back and could feel about 5mm of movement....All the bolts were tight..
When the steering is rocked you can see the top part of the top UJ moving upwards, Almost as if it wanted to fold in half at the pivot...If that makes sense..
Hi Steve...Thats a possibility..The bottom shaft from the rack is about 2" exposed from the bottom of the UJ....I thought they were not much longer than that?...
The top column is around 5-8mm passed the inner collar of the UJ and the connecting shaft is not visible in the opposite inner collar..Cant see the connecting shaft at the lower UJ..
How much resistance/Tension should there be in the actual pivot of the UJ?..I seem to recall when handling the UJ pre-fitment there being something like one ounce of pressure before the pivot came into play...Now it looks and feels like there is hardly any resistance...Does this make sense.....
Edited by mrzigazaga on Monday 2nd February 16:05
When they are brand new they are quite tight but they soon loosen very slightly. There shouldn't be any play but they will probably flop down under their own weight.
If you stick a mole grip on the centre shaft between the two UJ's and have someone wiggle the wheel while you hold it tight, it might help narrow down where the play is coming in. Then move the grip down to the bottom and repeat.
If you stick a mole grip on the centre shaft between the two UJ's and have someone wiggle the wheel while you hold it tight, it might help narrow down where the play is coming in. Then move the grip down to the bottom and repeat.
Thanks Adam...There was play in the connecting rod which is connected to both UJ's..The knocking seems to be coming from the top UJ wanting to contort on rotation of the steering wheel, I would of thought that kind of movement would only happen if the top column was able to move in and out..Which it doesn't...If my neighbour is about tomorrow then i will see if he can give me a hand and i will film it moving...Its easier than trying to describe it....
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