One eyed headlights....
Discussion
Hi Peeps...On my way to the garage this morning it was a tad murky so i thought..Hey lets pop up my reliable pop up headlights...(Cue family fortunes wrong guess sound)..
So i manually wound up the O/S pod...
Removed the headlight..Removed the pod...Checked all the wires as i was faffing around there with the indicators..Found a brown wire hanging out the connector plug so chopped it off and fitted some bullet connectors..Cleaned up all the other plugs..Put it all back together..Connected the battery...
Then turned the headlights off..
...
Checked fuses..All good..Went to check the relays but couldn't find a relay diagram so got the bible out..Pulled out every relay according to the schematics..No joy..Pulled out most of them still no joy..By this time it was starting to get dark so now it will have to wait for another day..Could it be the motor thats naff?..It seems strange that its only happened after faffing around with the indicators..Which work.....Any ideas?..Cheers...Ziga
So i manually wound up the O/S pod...
Removed the headlight..Removed the pod...Checked all the wires as i was faffing around there with the indicators..Found a brown wire hanging out the connector plug so chopped it off and fitted some bullet connectors..Cleaned up all the other plugs..Put it all back together..Connected the battery...
Then turned the headlights off..
...Checked fuses..All good..Went to check the relays but couldn't find a relay diagram so got the bible out..Pulled out every relay according to the schematics..No joy..Pulled out most of them still no joy..By this time it was starting to get dark so now it will have to wait for another day..Could it be the motor thats naff?..It seems strange that its only happened after faffing around with the indicators..Which work.....Any ideas?..Cheers...Ziga
Seems to be an inherent problem especially with earlier Wedges, don't know if anyone has the definitive answer but one of mine refused to pop up, and it appeared a faulty motor, as I fitted a second hand one from Richard Thorpe and it works ok now. However I have noticed that if the battery is weak, they will often lift a few moments apart and not together.
Quite nice really to flash your lights and you get a sort of Mexican wave !
Good luck.
Quite nice really to flash your lights and you get a sort of Mexican wave !
Good luck.
How many times will we all go around this particular roundabout ! many more I suspect.
Zig, all you can do is go though everything.
A small test meter is useful, because you can see if the electric signals work - worth checking that the 'UP' and 'DOWN" wires out the motor are switching between 0 and 12 volts, for example, which will check the motor is OK, and then similar for relays. Contacts can burn out in the relays too - not very common, but it's possible...
I spent a couple of days on mine after it suddenly decided to be one-eyed, and ended up rewiring part of it to remove the green and gungy connector. Even after a clean, it was intermittent, so the rewire. Much better afterwards, I'll have to do the other side as well soon.
I feel the pain, and the frustration too. Been there......
Zig, all you can do is go though everything.
A small test meter is useful, because you can see if the electric signals work - worth checking that the 'UP' and 'DOWN" wires out the motor are switching between 0 and 12 volts, for example, which will check the motor is OK, and then similar for relays. Contacts can burn out in the relays too - not very common, but it's possible...
I spent a couple of days on mine after it suddenly decided to be one-eyed, and ended up rewiring part of it to remove the green and gungy connector. Even after a clean, it was intermittent, so the rewire. Much better afterwards, I'll have to do the other side as well soon.
I feel the pain, and the frustration too. Been there......
mmm...Wound it to the up position and down and tried it numerous times..It doesn't even flinch..Get hot or wurr or anything..They were working absolutely fine and have done ever since i have owned the car..I regularly pop them up and down a few times as they don't normally get used so it helps to keep them working..I regularly lube the pivots and clean the plugs...This has stopped working since i put my hand up through the access hole to reach the indicator as that didn't go as planned the other day..In hindsight i would of removed the pod to access the indicator and wiring.
I thought i might of disturbed something and when i looked in there i found a brown wire that had come out of the back of the connector plug so replaced it with new wire..I used bullet connectors as it was the two wires coming from the side indicator to this plug..I must say that when i cut the old wire off i didn't take note of what colour went to what bullet connector but it will only work one way when i tested it so i believe that is right....
I have a feeling it could be a relay...I will check them tomorrow, It was very confusing to establish what relay does what..Especially trying to relate it to the "Bible"...Once i know what is what i will make up my own relay diagram and keep it in the car..Cheers...Ziga
I thought i might of disturbed something and when i looked in there i found a brown wire that had come out of the back of the connector plug so replaced it with new wire..I used bullet connectors as it was the two wires coming from the side indicator to this plug..I must say that when i cut the old wire off i didn't take note of what colour went to what bullet connector but it will only work one way when i tested it so i believe that is right....
I have a feeling it could be a relay...I will check them tomorrow, It was very confusing to establish what relay does what..Especially trying to relate it to the "Bible"...Once i know what is what i will make up my own relay diagram and keep it in the car..Cheers...Ziga
If it helps, here is my attempt at a "non-techie" overview of how the pods work.
(NO - I'm not sayin' ANYONE is dumb. This is intended to help. Yes, really.)
There is a relay which moves 12 volts between an 'UP' and a 'DOWN' wire. This relay gets switched on when you switch the headlamps on. When HL are off, the relay is off too, and sends 12 volts to the DOWN wire.
The UP and DOWN wires feed into each motor, which has an UP switch (which switches OFF at the top, and is ON the rest of the time) and a DOWN switch (which is OFF when pod at the bottom, and ON the rest of the time.
These switches are connected together at one end and go to that motor's "RUN" relay, which simply runs the motor itself.
So - the pod stops at either UP or DOWN, which matches where the 12 volts is fed in, which is either the UP or the DOWN wire from the first sentence, because that's when the selected switch in the motor switches OFF.
So - pod motor has FIVE wires.
1....IN....Motor 12 volts
2....IN....Motor earth return
3....OUT...RUN signal goes to run relay
4....IN....UP 12v feed from 'main' relay to UP switch, then out to 3
5....IN....DOWN 12v feed from 'main' relay to DOWN switch, then out to 3
3 is the common connection between the up and down switches. There are diodes inside, these are to make sure the signals only go one way. A diode is simply a one way gate which says "+ve volts only go THIS way, and not backwards". Otherwise, as the DOWN switch is still on when the UP switch goes OFF, the motor could still run.
The RUN relay actually 'shorts' the motor when it switches off. This is make sure the motor stops immediately, and doesn't run on (switch could go back ON and then pod will go up,down,up,down). That's why the motor has its own relay.
So there are 3 relays (in my '82 at least) one 'master' which switches the UP and DOWN wires, and 1 relay for each motor.
If that doesn't make sense, read it a couple of times, and I hope it works. It's actually simple once you get your head around it. I hope this may help other wedgers too. It looks complex, but it ain't really.
Zig, My suggestions -
If one pod works, then the main relay and the relay for that motor is working correctly, and the fault has to be in the other pod - its wiring, its relay, or the motor.
If the pod isn't working at all, as you say, then it's probably not the motor, I reckon. It most likely means power is not getting to it for some reason. If it was a motor switch the pod would probably go up, but not down, or the other way round. The run relay could have failed, or fuse blown, or connector needs a good clean, or simply a broken wire..... I reckon a failed diode would be like a failed switch, pod would go one way ?
(NO - I'm not sayin' ANYONE is dumb. This is intended to help. Yes, really.)
There is a relay which moves 12 volts between an 'UP' and a 'DOWN' wire. This relay gets switched on when you switch the headlamps on. When HL are off, the relay is off too, and sends 12 volts to the DOWN wire.
The UP and DOWN wires feed into each motor, which has an UP switch (which switches OFF at the top, and is ON the rest of the time) and a DOWN switch (which is OFF when pod at the bottom, and ON the rest of the time.
These switches are connected together at one end and go to that motor's "RUN" relay, which simply runs the motor itself.
So - the pod stops at either UP or DOWN, which matches where the 12 volts is fed in, which is either the UP or the DOWN wire from the first sentence, because that's when the selected switch in the motor switches OFF.
So - pod motor has FIVE wires.
1....IN....Motor 12 volts
2....IN....Motor earth return
3....OUT...RUN signal goes to run relay
4....IN....UP 12v feed from 'main' relay to UP switch, then out to 3
5....IN....DOWN 12v feed from 'main' relay to DOWN switch, then out to 3
3 is the common connection between the up and down switches. There are diodes inside, these are to make sure the signals only go one way. A diode is simply a one way gate which says "+ve volts only go THIS way, and not backwards". Otherwise, as the DOWN switch is still on when the UP switch goes OFF, the motor could still run.
The RUN relay actually 'shorts' the motor when it switches off. This is make sure the motor stops immediately, and doesn't run on (switch could go back ON and then pod will go up,down,up,down). That's why the motor has its own relay.
So there are 3 relays (in my '82 at least) one 'master' which switches the UP and DOWN wires, and 1 relay for each motor.
If that doesn't make sense, read it a couple of times, and I hope it works. It's actually simple once you get your head around it. I hope this may help other wedgers too. It looks complex, but it ain't really.
Zig, My suggestions -
If one pod works, then the main relay and the relay for that motor is working correctly, and the fault has to be in the other pod - its wiring, its relay, or the motor.
If the pod isn't working at all, as you say, then it's probably not the motor, I reckon. It most likely means power is not getting to it for some reason. If it was a motor switch the pod would probably go up, but not down, or the other way round. The run relay could have failed, or fuse blown, or connector needs a good clean, or simply a broken wire..... I reckon a failed diode would be like a failed switch, pod would go one way ?
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 10th February 23:17
Thanks for that explanation Andy..I will have a good look and report back tomorrow...I should really learn how to use the voltmeter that i have owned for the last two years...
Today i received a pair of reading glasses which to be frank means i can see stuff closer than a foot now...I must start to face facts...Im getting old and crusty...
Today i received a pair of reading glasses which to be frank means i can see stuff closer than a foot now...I must start to face facts...Im getting old and crusty...
No worries,
I'm at the point where I wear TWO pairs stacked to see something really close (like tiny print or for soldering a circuit board) one pair to read, and a different pair to drive.....
"Where the
hell are my glasses ?" is probably the most common thing I ever say now....and I get crustier and more cynical every single day....
Driving the wedge still makes me smile though !!
I'm at the point where I wear TWO pairs stacked to see something really close (like tiny print or for soldering a circuit board) one pair to read, and a different pair to drive.....
"Where the
hell are my glasses ?" is probably the most common thing I ever say now....and I get crustier and more cynical every single day....Driving the wedge still makes me smile though !!
RCK974X said:
Driving the wedge still makes me smile
TThhee ppoossiittiivveess oouutt--wweeiigghh tthhee nneeggaattiivveess...
wooly350i said:
You have been ere before Zigster with your old flame, she had a replacement motor whilst living here which sorted out her mischievous moments at her front end.
Yeah but she used to let me wiggle her wires....Although going over a bump in the road normally made the O/S pod flip up and down on its ownHi Peeps...Well after tapping all the relays to see if they had possibly stuck i nudged the loom and the pod came up...So i contorted myself upside down and found a white with purple stripe hanging out the back of the fusebox...
The pics a bit blurry but you can see the wire sitting out on its own...Fusebox out time...Cheers...Ziga
The pics a bit blurry but you can see the wire sitting out on its own...Fusebox out time...Cheers...Ziga
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Peeps...Well after tapping all the relays to see if they had possibly stuck i nudged the loom and the pod came up...So i contorted myself upside down and found a white with purple stripe hanging out the back of the fusebox...
Hmmm, every drawing I have says that White/Violet is the fuel pump feed 
Wedg1e said:
Hmmm, every drawing I have says that White/Violet is the fuel pump feed
Hi Ian...It was definitely the headlamp motor as it says on the fuse board layout third up from the bottom LH side..There is also one under it the same colour that is for the N\S motor..I had to semi-bodge it as i didn't have any female spade type connectors that fit in there so i used a male spade fitting that was tight in there, I also cable tied it to the adjacent wires...(Not in this pic though)
All working now....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6piDz3ad_u4
RCK974X said:
What's with all those weird colours ?? PROPER Wedges are all wired in black......
You must have your psychedelic glasses on mate..They are all black...Mmmm...Or have i got my black and white ones on....It could be red with yellow spots it still wouldn't make any sense to me...
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