Discussion
That didn't take long.
I've posted a couple of pics' on the position of the thermostat Zig. Yes, as picture 1 shows it came out with the 'working parts' facing the rear into the timing cover casing. So not subject to rad temp? However, pic'2 shows that this thermostat would not fit the other way round, into the thermostat housing. So what have I got? The wrong size thermostat or the wrong housing?
Don't you love them? How did you manage to connect the pump output pipe banjo to the fuel feed from the accumulator Zig? Cheers J C.
I've posted a couple of pics' on the position of the thermostat Zig. Yes, as picture 1 shows it came out with the 'working parts' facing the rear into the timing cover casing. So not subject to rad temp? However, pic'2 shows that this thermostat would not fit the other way round, into the thermostat housing. So what have I got? The wrong size thermostat or the wrong housing? Don't you love them? How did you manage to connect the pump output pipe banjo to the fuel feed from the accumulator Zig? Cheers J C. Hi mate...That thermostat looks wrong...Here is the 2.8i Capri type..
I remember that the spring went inside the rear stat housing and the plate sat flush..Some are meant to have a thin circular rubber o-ring as a seal and i remember mine leaking because the new one didn't come with it...
The housings are correct mate...Your stat looks like the one i had that failed from new...The genuine type are a lot more expensive but do the job.
Ill call Tickover in the morning to see if he is getting any more in as he is out of stock at the moment....Give it a test without the stat in to see if its all heating up as it should be...Cheers..Ziga
I remember that the spring went inside the rear stat housing and the plate sat flush..Some are meant to have a thin circular rubber o-ring as a seal and i remember mine leaking because the new one didn't come with it...
The housings are correct mate...Your stat looks like the one i had that failed from new...The genuine type are a lot more expensive but do the job.
Ill call Tickover in the morning to see if he is getting any more in as he is out of stock at the moment....Give it a test without the stat in to see if its all heating up as it should be...Cheers..Ziga
Edited by mrzigazaga on Sunday 7th February 14:48
John, I've seen that style. Yep that's the right way around.
You are right, technically none fit the wrong way round, but can be compressed to fit by an idiot.
Some have have a much smaller plate - the wrong types I think.
The photo is a non OE replacement, and is OK, provided the rear plate is large enough to block off the rear hole. There are a few different sizes around for different cars. Not all stats have the opening temp stamped on the front part, but some do.
Whilst it's out, check it is opening by shoving it in a pan of water on the stove, with a cooking thermometer if you have one, and check opening temp. Without a thermometer, it should open well before the water boils.
Hope this helps.
NOTE on that Capri diagram shown I see that the overflow pipes ALSO bypass the rad, so looks like I am wrong.
Sorry for any distraction.
You are right, technically none fit the wrong way round, but can be compressed to fit by an idiot.
Some have have a much smaller plate - the wrong types I think.
The photo is a non OE replacement, and is OK, provided the rear plate is large enough to block off the rear hole. There are a few different sizes around for different cars. Not all stats have the opening temp stamped on the front part, but some do.
Whilst it's out, check it is opening by shoving it in a pan of water on the stove, with a cooking thermometer if you have one, and check opening temp. Without a thermometer, it should open well before the water boils.
Hope this helps.
NOTE on that Capri diagram shown I see that the overflow pipes ALSO bypass the rad, so looks like I am wrong.
Sorry for any distraction.
Edited by RCK974X on Monday 8th February 22:23
Thanks Andy. Things are becoming clearer with your and Zig's help. The thermostat does sit inside the timing case, facing rearwards so that the wax capsule is subjected to coolant temperature from the engine block via the 'T' piece connection (Heater, Expansion Tank). I've checked the removed thermostat, stamped 88 degrees. It didn't start openning until the water was boiling ie 100 degrees centigrade. So not surprising that it stop any flow from the bottom of the rad. New one on order. Talking to a few guys that use the V6i engine in kit cars and they either remove the thermostat or drill holes into the sealing plate. Due to the unreliability of the units. Cheers John C.
John042 said:
Talking to a few guys that use the V6i engine in kit cars and they either remove the thermostat or drill holes into the sealing plate. Due to the unreliability of the units.
Hi John....Thats why i recommended the original type which are made of brass...The "Gates" types are okay but the cheap silver looking ones are total pants and would not bother with them...The brass types are nearer to £30 which seems steep for just a thermostat but they are the correct type and will last for years.Some have a gasket supplied but its too thick...The original ones are more like an "O" ring than a gasket...You could give Tickover a call and see if they are getting any more in stock....Also 88 degree stat is way too high for the cologne...Im sure they are meant to be 84-86....Cheers...Ziga
Yep, looks like thermostat is the problem, and yes a lot of the cheap silver ones are garbage.
For a while I remember it was recommended to drill a small hole in the front of the 'solid' non OE ones (about 3 mm) to make sure there were no air bubbles trapped, the better brass coloured ones and OE versions did have a little valve to do this. I wouldn't drill a hole in the rear plate for raod use - it's designed to block of that rear pipe when hot.
Fingers crossed we can now say "well there's yer problem...."
I think the thermostats came in 82 or 88C options ?? Not sure about that though... Mine's got an 82 in it.
For a while I remember it was recommended to drill a small hole in the front of the 'solid' non OE ones (about 3 mm) to make sure there were no air bubbles trapped, the better brass coloured ones and OE versions did have a little valve to do this. I wouldn't drill a hole in the rear plate for raod use - it's designed to block of that rear pipe when hot.
Fingers crossed we can now say "well there's yer problem...."
I think the thermostats came in 82 or 88C options ?? Not sure about that though... Mine's got an 82 in it.
Edited by RCK974X on Monday 8th February 18:53
Hi John..Not sure i would drill a hole in it...If its a Gates type which is around £10 then its similar to the brass type....On refilling i would first fill the rad...Then the expansion tank...Do it slowly and on level ground..Warm up squeezing the top and bottom rad hose...Wait till he's warmed up and then let cool and check the level...Fill and burp again...Everything should be okay then....Ziga
Thanks Zig/Andy. I remember fitting thermostats over the years and you're right some had a little lose rivet in a hole to prevent air cavities? I've just received the thermostat marked 82 degrees. Judging from the cost, £10, and the make "Moto" it may be worth drilling a hole??
Anyway, more importantly, where's a source for a fuel accumulator? Most seem to be priced £110-£140? Or is that the going rate? Cheers all. J C.
Anyway, more importantly, where's a source for a fuel accumulator? Most seem to be priced £110-£140? Or is that the going rate? Cheers all. J C. Hi John...If you had an electrical plug on the metering unit then i would by-pass the accumulator..But you haven't...You could try by-passing it to see what happens...They are around £140-160...I think i paid the latter for mine from kmi petrol injection....
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...
Thanks Zig. I've just sent KMI an e-mail. Strange that I've no plug on the fuel distributor? Further investigation, and as you suggest by-passing the accumulator. Fortunately I have a tame guru at a Specialist Car garage Porkies 924/928's etc. Might be worth a chat before I leap in and replace the accumulator, but he keeps on trying to sell me a Porsche!
Cheers J C.
Cheers J C. John,
The accumulator is a smoothing device, it smooths out fuel pump pressure varations. There are various opinions as to whether it's really needed.
Missing plug - If you and Zig mean the plug on the side of the main metering head, I can explain.
The early 'basic K' had a simple setup using the fact that the pump runs whenever the main metering flap is lifted off its stop, and that's what the side plug is for - a simple switch. Lift the flap by hand and pump runs.
For safety regs, later K jets (and all USA Wedges I think) had an electronic timer controller/relay instead, so that the pump runs for 2 secs after the last spark. This is in case flap gets lifted in accident, unit gets damaged, car rolls over etc. This is the tall 'purple pump relay' (or 'pink' relay) found in many Euro Fords with K jet (Escorts,Granada, Orion etc).
I think the US cars had a white box, which was a timer and an inertia/collision switch in one box? Not sure about those.
I changed mine over to a timer relay setup, it's actually easier to start, and safer I reckon.
The accumulator is a smoothing device, it smooths out fuel pump pressure varations. There are various opinions as to whether it's really needed.
Missing plug - If you and Zig mean the plug on the side of the main metering head, I can explain.
The early 'basic K' had a simple setup using the fact that the pump runs whenever the main metering flap is lifted off its stop, and that's what the side plug is for - a simple switch. Lift the flap by hand and pump runs.
For safety regs, later K jets (and all USA Wedges I think) had an electronic timer controller/relay instead, so that the pump runs for 2 secs after the last spark. This is in case flap gets lifted in accident, unit gets damaged, car rolls over etc. This is the tall 'purple pump relay' (or 'pink' relay) found in many Euro Fords with K jet (Escorts,Granada, Orion etc).
I think the US cars had a white box, which was a timer and an inertia/collision switch in one box? Not sure about those.
I changed mine over to a timer relay setup, it's actually easier to start, and safer I reckon.
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 9th February 21:31
Hi John...The accumulator holds the pressure when the car is turned off..It aids hot starting, I do remember talking with Clive at Tickover about it and he said that Ford stop using them later on so maybe you could by-pass it...Im not too familiar with what Andy knows as regards to the later 280i K-Jetronics but i used to hold my foot about a 1/4 down when cranking from cold and she would fire up...Albeit on 5 cylinders for about a min..Apparently that was a normal trait with the Cologne.
Give it a try and see what happens...
Give it a try and see what happens...
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff