Mildly warm start problem
Discussion
Hi Keith
Sorry to question your skills but I have to ask...Did you make sure that you followed the colour to the correct pin on the CTS?.....
Strange that it wont fire.....
...The CTS can be unplugged from cold which should give an over enriched mixture so rule that out...I know if the thermotime is unplugged on mine and on a friends 400SE the car will not start....Have you tested the resistances on that?
Seems strange that you have fuel, air and a spark and it still wont start???....
You have no fuel leaking?..You have checked all connections including all the earths..(3 places)...You have tested components....
I take it that you have removed the air filter and pushed the flap with ignition on to hear the injectors clicking?....And priming the fuel rail.
Whilst the air filter is off give the mouth of the AFM a wipe with some contact cleaner and also clean the ATS if its dirty which is a small white cup hanging down in the opening of the AFM air cleaner side.
What is your timing set to?
Sorry to question your skills but I have to ask...Did you make sure that you followed the colour to the correct pin on the CTS?.....
Strange that it wont fire.....
...The CTS can be unplugged from cold which should give an over enriched mixture so rule that out...I know if the thermotime is unplugged on mine and on a friends 400SE the car will not start....Have you tested the resistances on that?Seems strange that you have fuel, air and a spark and it still wont start???....
You have no fuel leaking?..You have checked all connections including all the earths..(3 places)...You have tested components....
I take it that you have removed the air filter and pushed the flap with ignition on to hear the injectors clicking?....And priming the fuel rail.
Whilst the air filter is off give the mouth of the AFM a wipe with some contact cleaner and also clean the ATS if its dirty which is a small white cup hanging down in the opening of the AFM air cleaner side.
What is your timing set to?
Hi Mark, answering your questions:
CTS connector - yes I did double check and ensured it is wired correctly. I've got two spare looms so I did check one of them also.
I'll check unplugging the CTS. I did try unplugging the thermotime when the engine was running the other night and as you say as soon as the connector was pulled it died.
I've two spare thermotime switches and all three show pretty much the same resistance. I did try swapping one out but it made no difference.
No fuel leaks but when it tries to start the exhaust stinks of fuel as if its flooding.
I've removed the air filter and fingered the flap (oh err) and the fuel pump kicks in. However when the car is trying to start the fuel pressure is lower than usual, despite the stink of fuel. When/if the engine does fire then pressure is back up to normal. I have pulled the cold start injector and it's not leaking and to be honest appears bone dry as if it's not actually cold enough for it to kick in. I am wondering if it could be a sticking AFM flap? I've three spare AFM's so I'll swap that out also as a check. How about a sticking fuel regulator? I've got a spare one of those as well so I'll put that on the list also.
I've not touched the timing so that shouldn't have moved. In order to stop it pinking it is around 2 to 3 degrees BTDC. If I try static at 8 degrees then it pinks too much and always has done. I'm suspicious that my TDC timing marks on the pulley are slightly out.
I've got today off but still waiting on the Postie for my new CTS and ignition amp.
On a couple of occasions last night it fired and once warm then runs fine. If I turn the engine off then again it's a pig to get re-started.
Further investigations will continue this afternoon, AFM in particular, followed by fuel regulator...... Cheers
CTS connector - yes I did double check and ensured it is wired correctly. I've got two spare looms so I did check one of them also.
I'll check unplugging the CTS. I did try unplugging the thermotime when the engine was running the other night and as you say as soon as the connector was pulled it died.
I've two spare thermotime switches and all three show pretty much the same resistance. I did try swapping one out but it made no difference.
No fuel leaks but when it tries to start the exhaust stinks of fuel as if its flooding.
I've removed the air filter and fingered the flap (oh err) and the fuel pump kicks in. However when the car is trying to start the fuel pressure is lower than usual, despite the stink of fuel. When/if the engine does fire then pressure is back up to normal. I have pulled the cold start injector and it's not leaking and to be honest appears bone dry as if it's not actually cold enough for it to kick in. I am wondering if it could be a sticking AFM flap? I've three spare AFM's so I'll swap that out also as a check. How about a sticking fuel regulator? I've got a spare one of those as well so I'll put that on the list also.
I've not touched the timing so that shouldn't have moved. In order to stop it pinking it is around 2 to 3 degrees BTDC. If I try static at 8 degrees then it pinks too much and always has done. I'm suspicious that my TDC timing marks on the pulley are slightly out.
I've got today off but still waiting on the Postie for my new CTS and ignition amp.
On a couple of occasions last night it fired and once warm then runs fine. If I turn the engine off then again it's a pig to get re-started.
Further investigations will continue this afternoon, AFM in particular, followed by fuel regulator...... Cheers
adam quantrill said:
Re-check the CTS resistance from the ECU end - take the big plug off the ECU and use the ohmmeter there. You will have to look up which two terminals it is.
It's not unknown for the loom to have a fault and if the CTS can't be read by the ECU it will go all wrong (cue Zig's piccy....)
Just in case you missed it. Belt and braces.It's not unknown for the loom to have a fault and if the CTS can't be read by the ECU it will go all wrong (cue Zig's piccy....)
adam quantrill said:
Just in case you missed it. Belt and braces.
Hi Adam spent the afternoon doing point to point tests and all wiring is good. New Cts fitted and no difference. I think it may well be the bloody ignition amplifier after all. I plugged in my set of spark plug tell tails (red in line neon things). When I crank the engine there is a spark but it is really feeble. If it catches and runs then immediately the spark goes to big and bright and then the engine runs as sweet as. Stop the engine, crank it again and back to feeble spark. I've swapped the coil out and that's made no difference. Could it be that the ignition amp is failing and only when it gets additional voltage when the alternator kicks in that it delivers a pukka in your face spark?
Good news I suppose is that at least I've double checked my wiring, my AFM has been taken out and given a lovely clean and I have a new CTS now fitted.
Still waiting on my new ignition amp so as soon as it arrives I'll see if that is the culprit.
So new but old stock genuine Lucas two terminal ignition amp eventually arrived today. Plugged it in and car fired first turn of the key. I've had a spirited run around the lanes, tried leaving the car for an hour and every time it starts on the button. The old amp was only 18 months old, but not a genuine Lucas unit. Many thanks for all your replies but also to Tony for pointing out the potential culprit.
Last night I also fitted new front wheel bearings on the 390 so as of tonight I have two Wedges and both are bloody working - amazing......! A glass of red in celebration I think.
Last night I also fitted new front wheel bearings on the 390 so as of tonight I have two Wedges and both are bloody working - amazing......! A glass of red in celebration I think.
adam quantrill said:
Good stuff - label all the other parts you've tried as "good substitutes" before you mix them up with your other spares!
Hi Adam, yes spare thermotime and CTS sensors put away safely and two duff ignition amps now in the bin. I also know that my spare ECU and AFM's both work fine too. I've added the neon spark plug extenders into the essential boot kit so I can easily see if I get a weak spark in the future. Cheers.KKson said:
So new but old stock genuine Lucas two terminal ignition amp eventually arrived today. Plugged it in and car fired first turn of the key. I've had a spirited run around the lanes, tried leaving the car for an hour and every time it starts on the button. The old amp was only 18 months old, but not a genuine Lucas unit. Many thanks for all your replies but also to Tony for pointing out the potential culprit.
Last night I also fitted new front wheel bearings on the 390 so as of tonight I have two Wedges and both are bloody working - amazing......! A glass of red in celebration I think.
Last night I also fitted new front wheel bearings on the 390 so as of tonight I have two Wedges and both are bloody working - amazing......! A glass of red in celebration I think.
adam quantrill said:
Can I have your old amps - if the bin man hasn't "bin" and they are not covered by potato peelings already ;^)
Being of an electronicy bent I'd like to take them to bits to see how they tick.
Adam no problem they are still in the garage bin which gets emptied annually! Ping me an email with your home address. My email is kej.knight@btinternet.com Cheers.Being of an electronicy bent I'd like to take them to bits to see how they tick.
adam quantrill said:
Can I have your old amps - if the bin man hasn't "bin" and they are not covered by potato peelings already ;^)
Being of an electronicy bent I'd like to take them to bits to see how they tick.
Adam no problem they are still in the garage bin which gets emptied annually! Ping me an email with your home address. My email is kej.knight@btinternet.com Cheers.Being of an electronicy bent I'd like to take them to bits to see how they tick.
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff