Indoor Karting Business
Discussion
Hi,
I'm putting a business case together which is looking at opening an indoor track. I've been trying to speak to independent kart tracks around the nation (further a field from where I'd consider myself to be a competitor) however, I have received zero responses back. Therefore, I am wondering if there is anybody on here who runs / owns an indoor track who would be happy to spare some time to help out a budding entrepreneur?
I'm putting a business case together which is looking at opening an indoor track. I've been trying to speak to independent kart tracks around the nation (further a field from where I'd consider myself to be a competitor) however, I have received zero responses back. Therefore, I am wondering if there is anybody on here who runs / owns an indoor track who would be happy to spare some time to help out a budding entrepreneur?
munkynutz said:
Hi,
I'm putting a business case together which is looking at opening an indoor track. I've been trying to speak to independent kart tracks around the nation (further a field from where I'd consider myself to be a competitor) however, I have received zero responses back. Therefore, I am wondering if there is anybody on here who runs / owns an indoor track who would be happy to spare some time to help out a budding entrepreneur?
I'm curious - this seems like a business with relatively high startup costs, high staffing costs, high insurance costs, high advertising costs.I'm putting a business case together which is looking at opening an indoor track. I've been trying to speak to independent kart tracks around the nation (further a field from where I'd consider myself to be a competitor) however, I have received zero responses back. Therefore, I am wondering if there is anybody on here who runs / owns an indoor track who would be happy to spare some time to help out a budding entrepreneur?
If you're having to cold call established karting centres for a "how to?" guide it seems all like a very high risk?
daemon said:
I'm curious - this seems like a business with relatively high startup costs, high staffing costs, high insurance costs, high advertising costs.
Yep. There's a place in Glasgow opened a year or two back. Social enterprise. Spent £3m to kit out the old Rolls Royce factory.The guy who does their marketing has worked with/for most of the big ones around the UK, I forget his name. If he doesn't tell the OP to f
k off he'd probably have the answers he's looking for.https://www.theexperience.org.uk/
The only thing lacking with indoor karting is sheer speed. The 4 strokes are great fun and fast enough for Joe public but 2 strokes are brilliant and twice the speed. Daytona offer 2 strokes and Club100 is great but of course; all outdoor. The only way to fight the big boys is to do something very unique...
Warrington has a three level kart track (brilliant) which teamsport bought a couple years back. As has been said, teamsport are really expanding.
Daytona Manchester toyed with having a course that was half indoor and half outdoor; so the track takes you outside and back in again... there's a track near Chester that does that. There's some good uns in London who rely heavily on corporate trade; so work 'dos' and the like.
The location would have to be spot on - or it'd have to offer something unique. Pref' both.
Warrington has a three level kart track (brilliant) which teamsport bought a couple years back. As has been said, teamsport are really expanding.
Daytona Manchester toyed with having a course that was half indoor and half outdoor; so the track takes you outside and back in again... there's a track near Chester that does that. There's some good uns in London who rely heavily on corporate trade; so work 'dos' and the like.
The location would have to be spot on - or it'd have to offer something unique. Pref' both.
The one thing lacking at ALL karting circuits for me is any kind of level playing field when it comes to the Karts. There is always a few duds and often a couple of unfairly quick ones. This includes teamsport, which is a shame because they do everything else well. The last time I went, I was 2 seconds faster that some people who I knew were quicker than me in the first session and a the fastest time of the month for the second session. I asked the manager what was going on and he said something along the lines of "you lucked out with that kart" which just goes to show that they know the karts are drastically different but don't seem to care.
I know it is very hard (read expensive) to ensure the karts are evenly matched, (tyres, engine, drag etc) but there are plenty of people who would pay more for some kind of competition that tests driver skill rather than luck.
I know it is very hard (read expensive) to ensure the karts are evenly matched, (tyres, engine, drag etc) but there are plenty of people who would pay more for some kind of competition that tests driver skill rather than luck.
ive karted on an d off for 25 years, started as a kid and done it a few times in the last few years.
The game has changed, it is more about stags and groups, with he usual kid stuff.
The biggest issues i have nowadays is the poor standard of karts, one in a group steering wheel came off. my kart died so i had to have a new one with cold tyres and ending up loosing the race, i was 1st before it died.
if it was me i would have indoor and outdoor, get some off road buggies as they are great fun.
The game has changed, it is more about stags and groups, with he usual kid stuff.
The biggest issues i have nowadays is the poor standard of karts, one in a group steering wheel came off. my kart died so i had to have a new one with cold tyres and ending up loosing the race, i was 1st before it died.
if it was me i would have indoor and outdoor, get some off road buggies as they are great fun.
LDN said:
Daytona Manchester toyed with having a course that was half indoor and half outdoor; so the track takes you outside and back in again... there's a track near Chester that does that. There's some good uns in London who rely heavily on corporate trade; so work 'dos' and the like.
Not much to add other than I had a corporate evening at a kart track in Brussels that was indoor/outdoor. We went in the evening when it was wet and it was a huge amount of fun coming back inside and sliding around on wet tyres. Really shook up the order too with quite a few spins, including myself (I still won).cashmax said:
I know it is very hard (read expensive) to ensure the karts are evenly matched, (tyres, engine, drag etc) but there are plenty of people who would pay more for some kind of competition that tests driver skill rather than luck.
What they would really be testing, if the karts themselves were even matched, is driver weight.technodup said:
daemon said:
I'm curious - this seems like a business with relatively high startup costs, high staffing costs, high insurance costs, high advertising costs.
Yep. There's a place in Glasgow opened a year or two back. Social enterprise. Spent £3m to kit out the old Rolls Royce factory.The guy who does their marketing has worked with/for most of the big ones around the UK, I forget his name. If he doesn't tell the OP to f
k off he'd probably have the answers he's looking for.https://www.theexperience.org.uk/
XMT said:
I always wonder what your ROI would be on that sort of investment on such a place..3m! I really wouldnt have expected that sort of start up cost
It's a social enterprise so I think they have other goals as well as profit. Employing difficult youngsters is one, iirc.That said they've gone the whole hog. Electric karts, proper restaurant, meeting rooms, they're even got an actual plane now which I think you can have a party in, harking back to the RR history of the place. It sticks out the side of the building.
daemon said:
I'm curious - this seems like a business with relatively high startup costs, high staffing costs, high insurance costs, high advertising costs.
If you're having to cold call established karting centres for a "how to?" guide it seems all like a very high risk?
Yes you are right, this is quite a high risk business and I have done homework, continue to do homework and want to make as calculated decision as I can. If I can speak with current successful businesses as part of my homework then it will give me more confidence in my figures and projections.If you're having to cold call established karting centres for a "how to?" guide it seems all like a very high risk?
It's not simply a case of "can anybody tell me what to do" more a case of "this is how i see the business figures, is this unrealistic, valid, what am I missing / not considering etc"
technodup said:
ep. There's a place in Glasgow opened a year or two back. Social enterprise. Spent £3m to kit out the old Rolls Royce factory.
The guy who does their marketing has worked with/for most of the big ones around the UK, I forget his name. If he doesn't tell the OP to fk off he'd probably have the answers he's looking for.
https://www.theexperience.org.uk/
Thank you, I will give it a go and see if I can get in touch with said person The guy who does their marketing has worked with/for most of the big ones around the UK, I forget his name. If he doesn't tell the OP to f
k off he'd probably have the answers he's looking for.https://www.theexperience.org.uk/
I do plan on doing something very different however it is all part of my strategy. Tactically I need to get a go kart business up and running before I can start to add the USP's such as Loop de loops, fire tunnels etc...
In all honesty I do have something very different lined up which I am certain will attract visitors nationwide if not from further afield. Obviously I will not be sharing such information online. Just looking / hoping to get in touch with an independent track who can view over my plans, costs, overheads, cashflow / forecasts etc prior to going in to operation. If I fail in the "normal" karting business then my unique idea will simply not come to fruition.
The one thing I will have to offer to any karting company that helps me out is access to my system in the future which I think will be of huge benefit to any karting business
In all honesty I do have something very different lined up which I am certain will attract visitors nationwide if not from further afield. Obviously I will not be sharing such information online. Just looking / hoping to get in touch with an independent track who can view over my plans, costs, overheads, cashflow / forecasts etc prior to going in to operation. If I fail in the "normal" karting business then my unique idea will simply not come to fruition.
The one thing I will have to offer to any karting company that helps me out is access to my system in the future which I think will be of huge benefit to any karting business
Hi Munky,
I'd expect you to ignore this, but... to consider opening a business that requires a lot(!) of money up front, staff to cover extended opening hours, and no marketing pipeline set up - when you've not gotten a history of working in that industry, managing a business for someone else is absolute madness, and you're highly likely to lose you're money.
I'm not saying you will fail, but you're making it 100%+ more difficult for yourself to succeed, for no reason other than you don't want to do that job for a year.. So, I strongly recommend you go get a job at one of the alternative tracks, work hard, figure out how it works then you'll be well set. You cannot learn this experience by thinking hard about the problem from the outside and asking people.
If you do decide to go for it, then I wish you good luck. In answer to your question, fire extinguishers and servicing, tampon bins and collection, insurances, staff training, security measures, planning permission delays and costs, kitchen refitting are things you might have forgotten. Also you're going to need a lot of money on marketing to get people to move from interested to actually booking.
I'm sorry to sound so negative, but I wish someone hadve told me this when I did the similar thing half my life ago.
I'd expect you to ignore this, but... to consider opening a business that requires a lot(!) of money up front, staff to cover extended opening hours, and no marketing pipeline set up - when you've not gotten a history of working in that industry, managing a business for someone else is absolute madness, and you're highly likely to lose you're money.
I'm not saying you will fail, but you're making it 100%+ more difficult for yourself to succeed, for no reason other than you don't want to do that job for a year.. So, I strongly recommend you go get a job at one of the alternative tracks, work hard, figure out how it works then you'll be well set. You cannot learn this experience by thinking hard about the problem from the outside and asking people.
If you do decide to go for it, then I wish you good luck. In answer to your question, fire extinguishers and servicing, tampon bins and collection, insurances, staff training, security measures, planning permission delays and costs, kitchen refitting are things you might have forgotten. Also you're going to need a lot of money on marketing to get people to move from interested to actually booking.
I'm sorry to sound so negative, but I wish someone hadve told me this when I did the similar thing half my life ago.
In business do not underestimate the following:
Marketing costs (as mentioned above) i.e google CPC, FB etc.
Insurance costs. They can be eye watering and I expect Karting is seen as fairly high risk. I would expect it to be tens of thousands per year.
Business rates. Going to be a lot due to the physical size of place you will need.
Staffing issues, holidays, sickness, compo claims, unfair dismissal, maternity etc. There will always be an issue with someone on the go all the time.
Staffing costs. Its only going to get more expensive. A junior manager will expect £25k a year these days, you will need 2 or even 3. A senior manager, who actually knows what they are doing, £40k+.
Dealing with crime, be it light fingered staff, thieves, extortionists, gangsters, upset customers etc. One of those will rear its ugly head in the first year I can promise you.
Working 24/7 because unless you have a massive budget its likely you will have to oversee things from day one pretty much forever.
The lengths at which the competition will go to secure their business.
Personally I would do something else with your money. If you wanted to put £250-£500k (for example) into a product which might sell 100,000 units at £20 PM each then ok, great idea might be worth the risk. But to bank roll something like this which is going to be 90% set up costs which you cant get back with a very slow ROI is a huge risk.
Marketing costs (as mentioned above) i.e google CPC, FB etc.
Insurance costs. They can be eye watering and I expect Karting is seen as fairly high risk. I would expect it to be tens of thousands per year.
Business rates. Going to be a lot due to the physical size of place you will need.
Staffing issues, holidays, sickness, compo claims, unfair dismissal, maternity etc. There will always be an issue with someone on the go all the time.
Staffing costs. Its only going to get more expensive. A junior manager will expect £25k a year these days, you will need 2 or even 3. A senior manager, who actually knows what they are doing, £40k+.
Dealing with crime, be it light fingered staff, thieves, extortionists, gangsters, upset customers etc. One of those will rear its ugly head in the first year I can promise you.
Working 24/7 because unless you have a massive budget its likely you will have to oversee things from day one pretty much forever.
The lengths at which the competition will go to secure their business.
Personally I would do something else with your money. If you wanted to put £250-£500k (for example) into a product which might sell 100,000 units at £20 PM each then ok, great idea might be worth the risk. But to bank roll something like this which is going to be 90% set up costs which you cant get back with a very slow ROI is a huge risk.
And ref Daytona Manchester, I think one of the reasons they have done ok the last 4-5 years is they are right next to Media City which must be a massive boost for them. I used to go quite a bit 10-15 years ago and it was often very quiet. These days its a bit busier.
I bet it costs them £10k a week just to open the doors though.
I bet it costs them £10k a week just to open the doors though.
munkynutz said:
...before I can start to add the USP's such as Loop de loops, fire tunnels etc...
They wont be unique as IF they happen to be successful, your competitors will simply do the same thing.You can talk about this all you like, but i honestly dont think anyone is going to bankroll you - to the tune of several million perhaps plus maybe several years of loss making to get it up and running - as you've no experience in this field. People who have that sort of money to invest will be doing so on something that is close to a dead cert to succeed.
red_slr said:
And ref Daytona Manchester, I think one of the reasons they have done ok the last 4-5 years is they are right next to Media City which must be a massive boost for them. I used to go quite a bit 10-15 years ago and it was often very quiet. These days its a bit busier.
I bet it costs them £10k a week just to open the doors though.
Very true. Location is so important. Teamsport have a different angle in that they're trying to become THE name in arrive and drive karting. Daytona's other tracks are outdoor and seem to have a solid base, especially with their fleet of 2strokes. I bet it costs them £10k a week just to open the doors though.
Daytona Manchester certainly benefit from the Manchester / Salford Media City location. I used to go a lot and at one point, thought of opening a kart wear shop inside the venue. Thought better of it though.
I've seen some kart business for sale over the years; usually including a decrepid fleet of karts... it's a tough business that requires massive insurance; and large staff numbers; think marshals; front of house, cafe, managers, etc etc.
It's not something I'd get into without a silly amount of cash and a location that's begging for such a thing.
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