Discussion
I've just been reading in MAJOR MODS WHAT ABOUT THE 6.0L RV8? and a few Wedge specific questions popped into my head.
As a ballpark figure, how much do these Wildcat evolutions of the RV8 cost? (OK not Wedge specific at all but read on)
I know there are other engines which develop higher powers in stock form (LSx) but for the confines of a series 2 Wedge chassis I would have thought that you are pretty much stuck with something RV8 shaped?
Without excessive modification is the chassis up to these levels of torque / power?
Standard (Tiv tubular) exhaust manifolds almost certainly would strangle most of the extra gains had by these engines so is there enough room for exhaust manifolds which could capitalise on the extra breathing?
What gearbox options are available to handle the extra output?
Bottom line is, on a similar budget, would there be reasonable performance gains going the Wildcat route in a Wedge or would the limitations of the chassis/installation restrict the engine to be comparable to a well developed Rover RV8?
Leo
>> Edited by leorest on Thursday 22 December 10:48
As a ballpark figure, how much do these Wildcat evolutions of the RV8 cost? (OK not Wedge specific at all but read on)
I know there are other engines which develop higher powers in stock form (LSx) but for the confines of a series 2 Wedge chassis I would have thought that you are pretty much stuck with something RV8 shaped?
Without excessive modification is the chassis up to these levels of torque / power?
Standard (Tiv tubular) exhaust manifolds almost certainly would strangle most of the extra gains had by these engines so is there enough room for exhaust manifolds which could capitalise on the extra breathing?
What gearbox options are available to handle the extra output?
Bottom line is, on a similar budget, would there be reasonable performance gains going the Wildcat route in a Wedge or would the limitations of the chassis/installation restrict the engine to be comparable to a well developed Rover RV8?
Leo
>> Edited by leorest on Thursday 22 December 10:48
The chassis is not up to the "standard" power outputs, let alone the "claimed" or increased power outputs! Cracking around the front end and diff area is not uncommon. I believe you can convert the box to a T5, but it would be fairly expensive, and they are not perfect - in the 500's they have been known to lose 5th. gear, IIRC because the box isn't supported properly. I think going over 300 lb ft of torque starts to compromise the reliability of the Rover box, although I think SH and Green V8S are still using them with their hugely increased outputs.
7.
7.
If you want a car that will be fragile and liable to break as soon as you try and use the performance then yes but otherwise forget it. Go the more normal upgrade route. If you want to stick 400+ bhp in the car, the chassis will twist, the front suspension mounts will crack, the cooling system will need replacing, gearboxes either become consumables or you need to budget a couple of grand for a straight cut custom box. Clutches are again either consumables or you'll need to move to a triple plate or something similar. Not cheap at around £750 for the clutch alone. Then the fuelling will need upgrading. The more power the more the rest of the car simply will not cope. Engines also start to need rebuilds every year to ensure nothing is going wrong.
The car will be very twitchy on the standrad suspension as it will again twist under all that torque so that needs upgrading. Been there done that and so on. Currently fitting a humungous supercharger with water injection/charge cooling and a couple of other goodies. Should get way into the 500 bhp mark and possible even into the 600 bhp area. If you want that sort of power and performance, email me.... Not cheap though.
In my experience the engine budget is half what it costs to actually do the job correctly.
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 22 December 13:32
The car will be very twitchy on the standrad suspension as it will again twist under all that torque so that needs upgrading. Been there done that and so on. Currently fitting a humungous supercharger with water injection/charge cooling and a couple of other goodies. Should get way into the 500 bhp mark and possible even into the 600 bhp area. If you want that sort of power and performance, email me.... Not cheap though.
In my experience the engine budget is half what it costs to actually do the job correctly.
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 22 December 13:32
shpub said:
In my experience the engine budget is half what it costs to actually do the job correctly.
Not just your experience either Steve! The new 4.8 with all the other work done at the same time (eg cooling, bonnet etc etc) came to exactly the same again as the actual engine cost from John Eales.
Everything Steve says is true. However, if you don't want to go to extremes then my setup is pretty usable (although day-to-day running would be easier with injection). However, even then my suspension is upgraded. It's still not cheap though
Some useful feedback thank you
I was interested in exploring the idea of what the ultimate (engine) evolution of a wedge might be. I doubt I'll have the dosh to go that far but it's still useful to know how far you can go.
The intention is to upgrade breaks, suspension and sort out any hidden gremlins in the chassis department, all completed before progressing on to the engine and drivetrain.
My main interest is in driving the car, so it will be a rolling project but it will be thoroughly thought out and not just shoehorning a massive lump into a standard car, expecting it to all hang together and work properly. Eventually I hope to achieve a reliable fun and usable vehicle capable of holding up to some enthusiastic track use. It achieves the first three for road use but it needs some improvement before I'll let it loose on the track.
It is useful insight to learn of others experience of using 50% of the total budget for the engine. For my own project I think this will be on the high side as I think there is a lot to do first and the aim is fun not competition so I'll stay on the cheap side of the law of diminishing returns.
Ta
Leo
I was interested in exploring the idea of what the ultimate (engine) evolution of a wedge might be. I doubt I'll have the dosh to go that far but it's still useful to know how far you can go.
The intention is to upgrade breaks, suspension and sort out any hidden gremlins in the chassis department, all completed before progressing on to the engine and drivetrain.
My main interest is in driving the car, so it will be a rolling project but it will be thoroughly thought out and not just shoehorning a massive lump into a standard car, expecting it to all hang together and work properly. Eventually I hope to achieve a reliable fun and usable vehicle capable of holding up to some enthusiastic track use. It achieves the first three for road use but it needs some improvement before I'll let it loose on the track.
It is useful insight to learn of others experience of using 50% of the total budget for the engine. For my own project I think this will be on the high side as I think there is a lot to do first and the aim is fun not competition so I'll stay on the cheap side of the law of diminishing returns.
Ta
Leo
The ultimate evolution is dependent on how much budget/how much work you want to do and what the end goal is really aimed at. The more extreme the car becomes the more focussed it is on a particular function. It is quite surprising what can be acheived with a bit of care and thought but it does require a very holistic approach and one where it is crucial to learn where to spend the money.
Every year I keep thinking I've come up to the Wedge's limit but then something else comes up and the next evolution appears.... already thinking for 2007!
Every year I keep thinking I've come up to the Wedge's limit but then something else comes up and the next evolution appears.... already thinking for 2007!
cirks said:Indeed I couldn't agree more! And this is the sort or thing that spell check just won't help you with. I can only say, I did it on porpoise
The intention is to upgrade breaks
If you go for the 'ultimate' engine, yes, the breaks will also get upgraded (ie you'll get bigger and more serious breaks). However, I would go for upgrading the BRAKES first
leorest said:
Just keep good notes for when you get round to writing The Bible Vol 2.
I can see this going the same way as religion...
Bible 1 : in theory the 'truth' and the simple evolution of the planet/Wedge..
Bible 2 : the story according to a (sometimes) bearded chap with initials SH (changed them from JC) who, whilst developing his power beliefs created a wedge he believed would be able to drive on water. He had many desciples who, without the cash could only copy certain bits of his doctrine....
I'm going now, before I upset someone at this time of year
brummiewedge said:
So who has the biggest power wedge?
And how much power?
And what is it? 5.0 etc?
Probably me. Started out as a 390SE but has had one or two mods since then.
5.2 John Eales special. 8 downdraft throttle bodies, DTA ECU system, Race Logic Traction control, twin 140 psi fuel pumps....
Lightened flywheel (saved around 12kg) with triple plate clutch.
Custom suspension front and rear, full GPS data logging, roll cage etc etc. Road legal and driven to events towing a small trailer with slicks and wets.
380 bhp at the wheels according to the data logs. Normally aspirated.
Currently installing a supercharger with fully mapped water injection and charge cooler with 316mm front brakes....
www.shpub.co.uk/tvrservices/tvrs-gallery1.html for piccies and videos. Did a 99 mph average speed lap at Goodwood from a standing start on cold tyres.
>> Edited by shpub on Saturday 24th December 09:43
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