400 Brakes again
Discussion
Sorry to start what is an old topic, but having just spent the last few hours going through the archive, the answers to my questions were not forthcomming.
.. The Symptom .. Need more stopping power
.. The solution Big Brakes ... But what Brakes ?
I want to run the existing 15" Wheels, so nothing stupid like 400mm disks, but I was wondering if the sprinters etc have any preferences ?
Just change the bells / rotors or go for 4/6pot calipers or the full works ?
If anyone has any prices they could throw into the equasion that would be great.
Jason
.. The Symptom .. Need more stopping power
.. The solution Big Brakes ... But what Brakes ?
I want to run the existing 15" Wheels, so nothing stupid like 400mm disks, but I was wondering if the sprinters etc have any preferences ?
Just change the bells / rotors or go for 4/6pot calipers or the full works ?
If anyone has any prices they could throw into the equasion that would be great.
Jason
Jason,
I ordered some from Hi Spec for my "Project Wedge" and the 14 day delivery turned into 5 weeks and no sign so ditched them - they may be better now - they are good VFM. I got the 300mm x 22mm rotors from Tower View they are off something big and would be cheap if I could find out what! but they cost about £250. They do a caliper spacer to allow the standard princess jobs to be moved out away from the hub due to the increased diameter rotor - these are about £85. I believe this was the original layout Steve Heath used before he went Big Power. Try Hans Dalehusen as he's always playing with Wedge brakes and has been trying to sell me some big rotors and some TVR branded (Tuscan) Calipers.
GB
I ordered some from Hi Spec for my "Project Wedge" and the 14 day delivery turned into 5 weeks and no sign so ditched them - they may be better now - they are good VFM. I got the 300mm x 22mm rotors from Tower View they are off something big and would be cheap if I could find out what! but they cost about £250. They do a caliper spacer to allow the standard princess jobs to be moved out away from the hub due to the increased diameter rotor - these are about £85. I believe this was the original layout Steve Heath used before he went Big Power. Try Hans Dalehusen as he's always playing with Wedge brakes and has been trying to sell me some big rotors and some TVR branded (Tuscan) Calipers.
GB
Would sierra cosworth 4 pot calipers be any good..? This guys selling the cosworth calipers for about 300 quid a pair. Wondering about it myself.
www.rmcarspares.co.uk/acatalog/intro.html
www.rmcarspares.co.uk/acatalog/intro.html
Hello fellow WEDGE onwers.
At first best wishes for this new year with a lot of happy motoring. After reading several topics on BIG BRAKE conversions I was planning to put an article in the Wedge Pages.
But this is off line since march so I will try this way in a short version.
After buying my 350i in 1993 and my 430 SE in 2001 the brakes always were moderate for this type of car. So due to the fact I visit England on a regular bases to buy spares I started browsing for an upgrade.
First I started with a 300 x 22 to use the princess calliper but then a rotor with a separate bell and disc 300 x 28 came along still using the Princess calliper.
But you always want better and greater looks at an affordable price. So AP with AP 5200 callipers was a bit over the top. Hi Spec did a good offer with 300 x 28 disc and bells with their own 4 –pot calliper. Very nice and good set-up that works well buts as Tasmania already mentioned you have to be very very patient. But at the end the product is good and had the looks. But it took me months to get. A friend “Zwelgje350”uses this set-up and it is very happy with it. It performs very well.
Due to the fact I’am running 17 inch wheels I was allowed to go a bit bigger, 315 x 28 disc and bells and now I used the latest TVR Tuscan type 4-pot calliper ( Second hand). I had brackets machined by a company and this is a very good conversion with the TVR looks.
But still left with the earlier mentioned 300 disc and bell he made me a pair of brackets for those also. This is a very tight fit in a 15 inch wheels but you only have to grind a little bit from one edge of the calliper. The conversion with the TVR callipers is about 650 pounds.
A lot of money but relatively good value for money. The 300 disc with the princess calliper will also fit a 15 inch wheels. But there you also have to grind just a little from on edge of the calliper. Hardly noticeable. I still have a few mounting brackets left for this set-up
I’am always wondered why people pay a lot of money for the old Princess callipers which cost a lot of money to overhaul, difficult to get and you are still left with cast iron callipers. And for roughly the same amount you can have 4 pot aluminium TVR ones which have a lot more braking surface and better looks.
The biggest problem with these conversions is that are one off’s and that makes it more expensive. I you could machine 10 sets of brackets and 10 sets of disc and bells it would be even more interesting.
I will try so submit a picture but otherwise people can mail me for a picture.
This is in a nut shell my way of getting the best possible brakes for my Wedge at an affordable price. The whole story covers a time span of more then 3 years to get it right. It took me a lot of time and effort finding the best company to do the job for the right price. I combined several sources for the parts to get IMHO the best value for money.
It’s always sad that some many people are trying to invent the “wheel” by them selves. ( me included) I think it’s better to combine forces and get the best solution for problems we all encounter.
So we can improve our Wedges to a higher standard.
Greetings form Holland
Hans
At first best wishes for this new year with a lot of happy motoring. After reading several topics on BIG BRAKE conversions I was planning to put an article in the Wedge Pages.
But this is off line since march so I will try this way in a short version.
After buying my 350i in 1993 and my 430 SE in 2001 the brakes always were moderate for this type of car. So due to the fact I visit England on a regular bases to buy spares I started browsing for an upgrade.
First I started with a 300 x 22 to use the princess calliper but then a rotor with a separate bell and disc 300 x 28 came along still using the Princess calliper.
But you always want better and greater looks at an affordable price. So AP with AP 5200 callipers was a bit over the top. Hi Spec did a good offer with 300 x 28 disc and bells with their own 4 –pot calliper. Very nice and good set-up that works well buts as Tasmania already mentioned you have to be very very patient. But at the end the product is good and had the looks. But it took me months to get. A friend “Zwelgje350”uses this set-up and it is very happy with it. It performs very well.
Due to the fact I’am running 17 inch wheels I was allowed to go a bit bigger, 315 x 28 disc and bells and now I used the latest TVR Tuscan type 4-pot calliper ( Second hand). I had brackets machined by a company and this is a very good conversion with the TVR looks.
But still left with the earlier mentioned 300 disc and bell he made me a pair of brackets for those also. This is a very tight fit in a 15 inch wheels but you only have to grind a little bit from one edge of the calliper. The conversion with the TVR callipers is about 650 pounds.
A lot of money but relatively good value for money. The 300 disc with the princess calliper will also fit a 15 inch wheels. But there you also have to grind just a little from on edge of the calliper. Hardly noticeable. I still have a few mounting brackets left for this set-up
I’am always wondered why people pay a lot of money for the old Princess callipers which cost a lot of money to overhaul, difficult to get and you are still left with cast iron callipers. And for roughly the same amount you can have 4 pot aluminium TVR ones which have a lot more braking surface and better looks.
The biggest problem with these conversions is that are one off’s and that makes it more expensive. I you could machine 10 sets of brackets and 10 sets of disc and bells it would be even more interesting.
I will try so submit a picture but otherwise people can mail me for a picture.
This is in a nut shell my way of getting the best possible brakes for my Wedge at an affordable price. The whole story covers a time span of more then 3 years to get it right. It took me a lot of time and effort finding the best company to do the job for the right price. I combined several sources for the parts to get IMHO the best value for money.
It’s always sad that some many people are trying to invent the “wheel” by them selves. ( me included) I think it’s better to combine forces and get the best solution for problems we all encounter.
So we can improve our Wedges to a higher standard.
Greetings form Holland
Hans
MMM im looking to upgrade the brakes on the racer.
currently it uses
Granada vented disks and calipers with no penalty.
the rules now state
:-
5.11 Brakes:
Brakes are free.
Owing to the variety of brakes currently fitted, brakes modifications will have a direct effect on weight.
A. Original calliper and disk no larger than 273mm 1,000KG
B. Any calliper other than that fitted as standard by the factory +50KG
C. Any disk larger than 273mm (factory standard or not)
50kg +1kg per 1mm over 273mm
D. Both disk and calliper other than A 50kg +1kg per 1mm
N.B. See weight class category
Handbrake to be operational.
Master cylinder free, Pedal box
<--
not quite sure what ", Pedal box" means though ? free or not who knows..
SO basically an uprated caliper with 300mm brakes
would cost m3 77kg in weight. quite a lot. bringing the limit with driver to 1077 ( mind you as the car is currently 1050 without driver maybe not so much of a problem ..
How much of a difference do you think going to brakes like that would make.. ( i'll go and measure the current brakes later 269mm ?)
I quite fancy the tvr calipers if they are any good? which ones are they.
ref adaptor brakets i may be able to help there i have a mate who owns an engineering company
cheers g
currently it uses
Granada vented disks and calipers with no penalty.
the rules now state
:-
5.11 Brakes:
Brakes are free.
Owing to the variety of brakes currently fitted, brakes modifications will have a direct effect on weight.
A. Original calliper and disk no larger than 273mm 1,000KG
B. Any calliper other than that fitted as standard by the factory +50KG
C. Any disk larger than 273mm (factory standard or not)
50kg +1kg per 1mm over 273mm
D. Both disk and calliper other than A 50kg +1kg per 1mm
N.B. See weight class category
Handbrake to be operational.
Master cylinder free, Pedal box
<--
not quite sure what ", Pedal box" means though ? free or not who knows..
SO basically an uprated caliper with 300mm brakes
would cost m3 77kg in weight. quite a lot. bringing the limit with driver to 1077 ( mind you as the car is currently 1050 without driver maybe not so much of a problem ..
How much of a difference do you think going to brakes like that would make.. ( i'll go and measure the current brakes later 269mm ?)
I quite fancy the tvr calipers if they are any good? which ones are they.
ref adaptor brakets i may be able to help there i have a mate who owns an engineering company
cheers g
why are the wedge brakes so poor,ive got princess calipers and vented disks with green stuff pads and they are a massive improvement on the originals but compare them to the toyota celica (g reg) that i had before and they are crap, the toyota had small discs with single sliding caliper and standard pads, has anyone tried different master cylinder or servo arangements?
mmm like most road cars as soon as you put them on the track the failings show up pdq.... i had total brake failure twice last year ( both down to caliper problems leading to boiling fluid) and lots of disk warping problems...
Somme how one chap chomped his way through 2 sets of calipers and 3 sets of disks testing at rockingham !!!
thats using the granada vented stuff and i've been using ds3000 pads... with drilled and grovved disks...
Id say you can never have enough brakes... the chimaera was transformed with better brakes.
mind you i've never driven a wedge on th road
G
Somme how one chap chomped his way through 2 sets of calipers and 3 sets of disks testing at rockingham !!!
thats using the granada vented stuff and i've been using ds3000 pads... with drilled and grovved disks...
Id say you can never have enough brakes... the chimaera was transformed with better brakes.
mind you i've never driven a wedge on th road
G
One of the reasons for the wedge's poor brake performance is the servo assistance is fairly low also the bulkhead it's bolted to flexes - lean on your brake pedal and watch your master cylinder move around - quite alarming! I made a brace for mine to react the master directly into the chassis - which helps.
Also don't forget you can adjust the bite point of the servo by tweaking the little adjuster between the master cylinder and the servo - this helps considerably - be careful not to overdo it otherwise your brake will come on and stay on!
Matt
Also don't forget you can adjust the bite point of the servo by tweaking the little adjuster between the master cylinder and the servo - this helps considerably - be careful not to overdo it otherwise your brake will come on and stay on!
Matt
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff