Discussion
HeyAndy said:
The SE Spoiler is by far the nicest. The Zender looks a bit naff IMO.
Oi watch it - may have to set stainless on yer..
(Never seen me run so quick
) Personally felt the Zender looked better on the 350i than an SE aftermarket on a 350i.. more subtle.. as to whether it worked as well aerodynamically speaking..??
My 390 was retrofitted with the 400SE spoiler. I can testify to it working ... well at least to keeping the boot lid down for 40-odd miles when I had forgotten to latch it (and the boot has recently had RT's gas struts fitted).
According to press reports, mine originally had an aluminium undertray to aid airflow (did F1s have those in '85?). I haven't found out when it was removed ... but I'm working on it.
The distribution of mud (from recent driving along wet and dirty motorways) across both wing and spoiler suggests that they are doing a job. The spoiler had a reasonably uniform distribution illustrative of fairly consistent airflow across the top and a low pressure area underneath. Not conclusive, but indicative.
Streaky
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 24th January 07:02
According to press reports, mine originally had an aluminium undertray to aid airflow (did F1s have those in '85?). I haven't found out when it was removed ... but I'm working on it.
The distribution of mud (from recent driving along wet and dirty motorways) across both wing and spoiler suggests that they are doing a job. The spoiler had a reasonably uniform distribution illustrative of fairly consistent airflow across the top and a low pressure area underneath. Not conclusive, but indicative.
Streaky
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 24th January 07:02
The problem with boot spoilers like the 400SE one is that it is an inverted wing. That means it needs air flow to try and get it to work and unfortunately it is in one of the most turbulent areas on the car. It does do something in that it creates a bit of turbulance which helps smooth out the flow. Not very well explained but I suggest looking at Competition Car Downforce which has a lot better explanation.
As for the boot lid coming off. Been there and ripped the whole thing off at Goodwood. Going at 120+ Now pin it in place. It was this that got me thinking about the aerodynamics in the first place.
The other problem is the sheer weight of these items and their location at the extremity of the car which adds to the pendulum effect if either the front or the rear starts to go. Ideally, spoilers should be light as possible and designed to counteract the problem. Wings require non-turbulent air and without this do very little. True spoilers like Gurney flaps are more efficient providers of downforce in these cases because they remove lift and in this way generate downforce. Removing the rear spoiler also allows me to replumb the exhaust and about 6 foot of piping was removed. This was a huge amount of weight. The spoiler is designed not for ground effect but as in inverted wing which again it is not very good at. To get the air flow from underneath the car out, removing it and replacing it with a couple of small and light weight side plates does as good a job. Couple a big rubber front spoiler which is just above the ground and this completes the design. Very similar to what is used on Nascars.
Wing type spoilers on boots are a bit of a waste. They will act a bit like a spoiler but they are not the best solution.
All this is ignoring cosmetic looks and so on and focussing on how to get the car quicker.
As for the boot lid coming off. Been there and ripped the whole thing off at Goodwood. Going at 120+ Now pin it in place. It was this that got me thinking about the aerodynamics in the first place.
The other problem is the sheer weight of these items and their location at the extremity of the car which adds to the pendulum effect if either the front or the rear starts to go. Ideally, spoilers should be light as possible and designed to counteract the problem. Wings require non-turbulent air and without this do very little. True spoilers like Gurney flaps are more efficient providers of downforce in these cases because they remove lift and in this way generate downforce. Removing the rear spoiler also allows me to replumb the exhaust and about 6 foot of piping was removed. This was a huge amount of weight. The spoiler is designed not for ground effect but as in inverted wing which again it is not very good at. To get the air flow from underneath the car out, removing it and replacing it with a couple of small and light weight side plates does as good a job. Couple a big rubber front spoiler which is just above the ground and this completes the design. Very similar to what is used on Nascars.
Wing type spoilers on boots are a bit of a waste. They will act a bit like a spoiler but they are not the best solution.
All this is ignoring cosmetic looks and so on and focussing on how to get the car quicker.
Graham,
Sorry for late response. Unlikely to get the beasty sorted for the series as I don't seem to get time in the garage and it's about 2-3 weeks solid work to finish. I may be out later in the season but hope to do some sprints and track days in the road SEAC.
Interesting thought on the regs ref: factory fitted. I thought that with TVR just about anything could be factory fitted it it was made at the time! i.e. If a 280 owner asked for a SEAC wing to be fitted would TVR really say not? Surely they'd simply giggle and ask for the £1,500 premium on the price. Just a thought.
GB
Sorry for late response. Unlikely to get the beasty sorted for the series as I don't seem to get time in the garage and it's about 2-3 weeks solid work to finish. I may be out later in the season but hope to do some sprints and track days in the road SEAC.
Interesting thought on the regs ref: factory fitted. I thought that with TVR just about anything could be factory fitted it it was made at the time! i.e. If a 280 owner asked for a SEAC wing to be fitted would TVR really say not? Surely they'd simply giggle and ask for the £1,500 premium on the price. Just a thought.
GB
TaSmania said:
Interesting thought on the regs ref: factory fitted. I thought that with TVR just about anything could be factory fitted it it was made at the time! i.e. If a 280 owner asked for a SEAC wing to be fitted would TVR really say not? Surely they'd simply giggle and ask for the £1,500 premium on the price. Just a thought.
GB
The onus is on you to proof the legality. That means a factory price list or spec sheet with the item on it. I went into this a couple of years ago when I got unofficially protested. In the end I removed the spoiler and still beat them but I could not prove that the 390 had a factory fitted spoiler in their spec or price list even though I had pictures of cars with them. I changed class and went into full mod where I could fit spoilers but not wings. The spoiler cannot let air go underneath it so no wings.
My advice is read the regs/blue book and make sure that you are not causing yourself scrutineering problems/issues. Check with the chief scrut as well.
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff