llandow track day 20th september
Discussion
framerateuk said:
Just seen photos from the last Llandow trackday on Facebook... 3 crashes by my count. A Caterham/Westfield, Peugeot and a Puma.
Anyone see what happened? Were they all separate incidents or they some collide?
The puma rolled on its own on the back straight from accounts of people behind it he ran wide clipped the barrier on the outside and rolled across the track roof surprisingly came of not to bad considering it didn't have a roll cage.Anyone see what happened? Were they all separate incidents or they some collide?
The caterham/Peugeot accident happened the same time as I was on track in fact I came in on to the last corner flat out when the red flags came out just caught the flag and dived into the pits.
With that from accounts of others the pug out braked itself into the first corner as the caterham turned in on the correct line the Peugeot went straight over the n/s back wheel bounced over the front and nose dived back on to the track and spun on to the grass. Was being driven by a young girl too first time out of that I saw anyway. If the caterham had a passenger in it then I wouldn't want to think of the outcome of the accident.
The worst thing though was I was talking to the guy in the caterham just before going back out and did say hopefully we get a good session in now half the field have dropped out oopps.
Overall was the first time out with the exocet black and gold kit car few issues sorted early on and got into the 49s lap twice over 4s quicker than my road going mx5 around the same track.
There's some talk on Facebook about it. The Caterham owner is understandably miffed about it.
John always warns people on the briefing to be on the right hand side of the track before turning into the bus stop. If you're on the left and outbrake yourself, you don't allow for the person in front to turn in. If you're on the right, they're out of your way before you hit the "Oh Sh*t lane", or at worst you can ditch onto the grass on the right.
I've seen at least three accidents (prior to this one) on that corner. Two of which were caused by being too far left before turn in - it allows no margin for error and both cars ended up with flat fronts ends from hitting the bank by the tower.
John always warns people on the briefing to be on the right hand side of the track before turning into the bus stop. If you're on the left and outbrake yourself, you don't allow for the person in front to turn in. If you're on the right, they're out of your way before you hit the "Oh Sh*t lane", or at worst you can ditch onto the grass on the right.
I've seen at least three accidents (prior to this one) on that corner. Two of which were caused by being too far left before turn in - it allows no margin for error and both cars ended up with flat fronts ends from hitting the bank by the tower.
framerateuk said:
There's some talk on Facebook about it. The Caterham owner is understandably miffed about it.
John always warns people on the briefing to be on the right hand side of the track before turning into the bus stop. If you're on the left and outbrake yourself, you don't allow for the person in front to turn in. If you're on the right, they're out of your way before you hit the "Oh Sh*t lane", or at worst you can ditch onto the grass on the right.
I've seen at least three accidents (prior to this one) on that corner. Two of which were caused by being too far left before turn in - it allows no margin for error and both cars ended up with flat fronts ends from hitting the bank by the tower.
Totally agree really don't know how the Peugeot managed to do what it did but throughout the day it wasn't being driven that well and when it went on track same time as me there was a different female driver looked young to, not sure if she panicked and hit the accelerator rather than the brake. Tbh I was only 1 straight back I had existed the last corner when the red flag had come out and only a few laps before passed it so was lucky that it wasn't me in the position.John always warns people on the briefing to be on the right hand side of the track before turning into the bus stop. If you're on the left and outbrake yourself, you don't allow for the person in front to turn in. If you're on the right, they're out of your way before you hit the "Oh Sh*t lane", or at worst you can ditch onto the grass on the right.
I've seen at least three accidents (prior to this one) on that corner. Two of which were caused by being too far left before turn in - it allows no margin for error and both cars ended up with flat fronts ends from hitting the bank by the tower.
The other accidents you mention wasn't between a green mini and a puma 2 track days back was it.
No but I heard about that one. Two collisions in two months should get them questioning their briefing or maybe layout of the corner (perhaps there should be cones to channel everyone in before the bus stop?).
The accidents I saw were a red Nova back in Oct 2010 and a Supercharged VX220 in March 2011. Both being driven a bit too quickly with lockups before the bus stop turn in, and eventually the inevitable happened.
I've seen a fair few spins other than those mind. Two cars colliding is a fairly rare occurrence on trackdays though, it certainly shouldn't happen two trackdays in a row!
The accidents I saw were a red Nova back in Oct 2010 and a Supercharged VX220 in March 2011. Both being driven a bit too quickly with lockups before the bus stop turn in, and eventually the inevitable happened.
I've seen a fair few spins other than those mind. Two cars colliding is a fairly rare occurrence on trackdays though, it certainly shouldn't happen two trackdays in a row!
Hello,
All of us at Llandow are gutted for what happened to the Caterham here on Saturday. Safety is absolute priority with us and we take action when it is compromised.
We have organised a management meeting for a full review our safety policy, which will be held before the next trackday.
If anyone has any comments or suggestions on how we could improve things at Llandow, we'd be really keen to hear them. Email me louise@llandow.com and I will raise them at the meeting.
We are considering raising the age limit of participants to 21 - this would exclude young and inexperience drivers, which we are sure contributed to the incident on Saturday. Do you think this would be a good move?
With regards to the incident a few months ago with the Puma drivers, we have banned those drivers involved from participating in a trackday again.
All of us at Llandow are gutted for what happened to the Caterham here on Saturday. Safety is absolute priority with us and we take action when it is compromised.
We have organised a management meeting for a full review our safety policy, which will be held before the next trackday.
If anyone has any comments or suggestions on how we could improve things at Llandow, we'd be really keen to hear them. Email me louise@llandow.com and I will raise them at the meeting.
We are considering raising the age limit of participants to 21 - this would exclude young and inexperience drivers, which we are sure contributed to the incident on Saturday. Do you think this would be a good move?
With regards to the incident a few months ago with the Puma drivers, we have banned those drivers involved from participating in a trackday again.
Hi Guys at Llandow
Very sorry to hear you had this accident happen. its a shame for you as its always such good fun at the circuit.
It would be a shame to penalize the young lads for one incident, but i do agree that maybe stricter methods may be a good idea to start enforcing.
My ideas would be that the sometimes experience on a track is not always the determining factor in how quick or safe the drivers are.
My ideas would be for example, at Pembrey race track if you spin you have to pit in and cool down !! you could apply this rule if you have to use the "oh st Lane" , "Run wide" leaving the circuit boundary or spin off. this would allow the queue waiting at the pit exit to maybe flow better. reducing the number will not help as most cars are gone or broken down by 2-3 pm.
also just generally being stricter on pulling people up on there driving.
The Bus stop seems to be where most of all this happens, it must also be the responsibility of the driver being passed to lift off when being passed, as i have been in a situation where i was quicker in the corners but the car i was trying to pass would not lift on the straights although he would pull to the right & indicate to let me pass, but i lacked the power to do so.
Driver behind is to flash to alert he is there, or sound the horn at the start of the straight to inform he wishes to pass.
Maybe all that involved on the track day to have a 5 Sighting Laps behind the pickup van.. with no passing..
But what ever suggestions we have i guess it down to common sense.... you know who the idiots are quite soon on in the day. Be quicker to pull them in and have a word or send them packing.
Keep up the good work and hope to see you guys soon..
Matt
Very sorry to hear you had this accident happen. its a shame for you as its always such good fun at the circuit.
It would be a shame to penalize the young lads for one incident, but i do agree that maybe stricter methods may be a good idea to start enforcing.
My ideas would be that the sometimes experience on a track is not always the determining factor in how quick or safe the drivers are.
My ideas would be for example, at Pembrey race track if you spin you have to pit in and cool down !! you could apply this rule if you have to use the "oh st Lane" , "Run wide" leaving the circuit boundary or spin off. this would allow the queue waiting at the pit exit to maybe flow better. reducing the number will not help as most cars are gone or broken down by 2-3 pm.
also just generally being stricter on pulling people up on there driving.
The Bus stop seems to be where most of all this happens, it must also be the responsibility of the driver being passed to lift off when being passed, as i have been in a situation where i was quicker in the corners but the car i was trying to pass would not lift on the straights although he would pull to the right & indicate to let me pass, but i lacked the power to do so.
Driver behind is to flash to alert he is there, or sound the horn at the start of the straight to inform he wishes to pass.
Maybe all that involved on the track day to have a 5 Sighting Laps behind the pickup van.. with no passing..
But what ever suggestions we have i guess it down to common sense.... you know who the idiots are quite soon on in the day. Be quicker to pull them in and have a word or send them packing.
Keep up the good work and hope to see you guys soon..
Matt
Earl Grey said:
Hi Guys at Llandow
Very sorry to hear you had this accident happen. its a shame for you as its always such good fun at the circuit.
It would be a shame to penalize the young lads for one incident, but i do agree that maybe stricter methods may be a good idea to start enforcing.
My ideas would be that the sometimes experience on a track is not always the determining factor in how quick or safe the drivers are.
My ideas would be for example, at Pembrey race track if you spin you have to pit in and cool down !! you could apply this rule if you have to use the "oh st Lane" , "Run wide" leaving the circuit boundary or spin off. this would allow the queue waiting at the pit exit to maybe flow better. reducing the number will not help as most cars are gone or broken down by 2-3 pm.
also just generally being stricter on pulling people up on there driving.
The Bus stop seems to be where most of all this happens, it must also be the responsibility of the driver being passed to lift off when being passed, as i have been in a situation where i was quicker in the corners but the car i was trying to pass would not lift on the straights although he would pull to the right & indicate to let me pass, but i lacked the power to do so.
Driver behind is to flash to alert he is there, or sound the horn at the start of the straight to inform he wishes to pass.
Maybe all that involved on the track day to have a 5 Sighting Laps behind the pickup van.. with no passing..
But what ever suggestions we have i guess it down to common sense.... you know who the idiots are quite soon on in the day. Be quicker to pull them in and have a word or send them packing.
Keep up the good work and hope to see you guys soon..
Matt
Agree with most of this not sure about the sighting laps though most people in the groups apart from novice have been to the track so know the track kind of agree with it on the novice group though.Very sorry to hear you had this accident happen. its a shame for you as its always such good fun at the circuit.
It would be a shame to penalize the young lads for one incident, but i do agree that maybe stricter methods may be a good idea to start enforcing.
My ideas would be that the sometimes experience on a track is not always the determining factor in how quick or safe the drivers are.
My ideas would be for example, at Pembrey race track if you spin you have to pit in and cool down !! you could apply this rule if you have to use the "oh st Lane" , "Run wide" leaving the circuit boundary or spin off. this would allow the queue waiting at the pit exit to maybe flow better. reducing the number will not help as most cars are gone or broken down by 2-3 pm.
also just generally being stricter on pulling people up on there driving.
The Bus stop seems to be where most of all this happens, it must also be the responsibility of the driver being passed to lift off when being passed, as i have been in a situation where i was quicker in the corners but the car i was trying to pass would not lift on the straights although he would pull to the right & indicate to let me pass, but i lacked the power to do so.
Driver behind is to flash to alert he is there, or sound the horn at the start of the straight to inform he wishes to pass.
Maybe all that involved on the track day to have a 5 Sighting Laps behind the pickup van.. with no passing..
But what ever suggestions we have i guess it down to common sense.... you know who the idiots are quite soon on in the day. Be quicker to pull them in and have a word or send them packing.
Keep up the good work and hope to see you guys soon..
Matt
When I went there 2 months back with the incident with the mini and puma both at fault and the level of driving with the puma for a track day was shocking.
Some down there take things way to seriously yea push your car and have some fun with a friend chasing and passing them yea but when contact is involved its gone to far.
Don't really agree with the age limit but I do think that new drivers like what where in the Peugeot by the looks of it should be allowed out first for 10 mins or so with a trained marshall/driver etc just to get the feel of the track before joining in on the rest of the day thinking back some of the positioning of the Peugeot throughout the day was a bit eratic at times when coming up behind it.
Only thing I can think of is to cone of the inside lane into the first corner and end it just before the apex of the corner so you can take the normal line but stop the 2 cars going into the corner side by side, also be a good idea to mention to drivers and enforce it to let quicker car by, have had been quicker through the corners but cant get past even when they have pulled to the left and don't back off that didn't happen at the last one but as happened before.
Main problem is its a tight small track so you the chances of accidents are going to be higher not much you can do on that and limiting numbers is a bad idea as said by 2-3pm half the cars are gone and can get out on track without queing.
Well next track day will be next year with hopefully a quicker car so see you all next year.
Hey Llandow - nice to see you on here
I'll echo what's been said above - I'm not sure if age is generally a big factor since a lot of the poor driving I see on trackdays isn't dependant on age!
I think the main thing would be to perhaps introduce another flag to force people to allow others to overtake. I remember a whole field of cars stuck behind a Focus RS a few years back for several laps because he was very slow in the corners but kept his foot planted on straights and wouldn't allow anyone to overtake. He was dealt with eventually but he ruined two sessions - a blue flag to tell him to pull over and allow faster drivers to overtake would have sorted the problem. Lifting to allow others to overtake at Llandow is more important than other tracks because of the limited overtaking opportunities.
I agree with possibly including cones to channel people into the bus stop - but I worry that it might cause people to leave it too late before pulling in. Having cones would need to go hand in hand with allowing people to overtake or else it'll make the problem worse.
I've had a lot of fun days in Llandow, and it's only the very small minority that cause problems; you can usually spot them early on during the day, and I try my best to avoid them.
I'll echo what's been said above - I'm not sure if age is generally a big factor since a lot of the poor driving I see on trackdays isn't dependant on age!
I think the main thing would be to perhaps introduce another flag to force people to allow others to overtake. I remember a whole field of cars stuck behind a Focus RS a few years back for several laps because he was very slow in the corners but kept his foot planted on straights and wouldn't allow anyone to overtake. He was dealt with eventually but he ruined two sessions - a blue flag to tell him to pull over and allow faster drivers to overtake would have sorted the problem. Lifting to allow others to overtake at Llandow is more important than other tracks because of the limited overtaking opportunities.
I agree with possibly including cones to channel people into the bus stop - but I worry that it might cause people to leave it too late before pulling in. Having cones would need to go hand in hand with allowing people to overtake or else it'll make the problem worse.
I've had a lot of fun days in Llandow, and it's only the very small minority that cause problems; you can usually spot them early on during the day, and I try my best to avoid them.
framerateuk said:
Hey Llandow - nice to see you on here
I'll echo what's been said above - I'm not sure if age is generally a big factor since a lot of the poor driving I see on trackdays isn't dependant on age!
I think the main thing would be to perhaps introduce another flag to force people to allow others to overtake. I remember a whole field of cars stuck behind a Focus RS a few years back for several laps because he was very slow in the corners but kept his foot planted on straights and wouldn't allow anyone to overtake. He was dealt with eventually but he ruined two sessions - a blue flag to tell him to pull over and allow faster drivers to overtake would have sorted the problem. Lifting to allow others to overtake at Llandow is more important than other tracks because of the limited overtaking opportunities.
I agree with possibly including cones to channel people into the bus stop - but I worry that it might cause people to leave it too late before pulling in. Having cones would need to go hand in hand with allowing people to overtake or else it'll make the problem worse.
I've had a lot of fun days in Llandow, and it's only the very small minority that cause problems; you can usually spot them early on during the day, and I try my best to avoid them.
Agree with the last part can spot the bad drivers very early on by just watching the other sessions then just try and avoid them or don't stay around them for long.I'll echo what's been said above - I'm not sure if age is generally a big factor since a lot of the poor driving I see on trackdays isn't dependant on age!
I think the main thing would be to perhaps introduce another flag to force people to allow others to overtake. I remember a whole field of cars stuck behind a Focus RS a few years back for several laps because he was very slow in the corners but kept his foot planted on straights and wouldn't allow anyone to overtake. He was dealt with eventually but he ruined two sessions - a blue flag to tell him to pull over and allow faster drivers to overtake would have sorted the problem. Lifting to allow others to overtake at Llandow is more important than other tracks because of the limited overtaking opportunities.
I agree with possibly including cones to channel people into the bus stop - but I worry that it might cause people to leave it too late before pulling in. Having cones would need to go hand in hand with allowing people to overtake or else it'll make the problem worse.
I've had a lot of fun days in Llandow, and it's only the very small minority that cause problems; you can usually spot them early on during the day, and I try my best to avoid them.
I know I am speaking from a slightly biased point of view but I think it would be a shame to penalize young drivers. I have been driving for years before I had my full uk licence, even what I'd consider fast cars. I am now 18 and have a civic type r (boy racer stereotype me if you will haha!) but I would consider myself a good driver and sensible driver on the roads(different from track driving and biased I know) I have over a years no claims no points and was looking forward to racing at llandow now that I am 18, however the limit has now gone up to 19 on some places on the llandow site so that is no longer a possibility for me
marcusman97 said:
I know I am speaking from a slightly biased point of view but I think it would be a shame to penalize young drivers. I have been driving for years before I had my full uk licence, even what I'd consider fast cars. I am now 18 and have a civic type r (boy racer stereotype me if you will haha!) but I would consider myself a good driver and sensible driver on the roads(different from track driving and biased I know) I have over a years no claims no points and was looking forward to racing at llandow now that I am 18, however the limit has now gone up to 19 on some places on the llandow site so that is no longer a possibility for me
Speaking as a 22 year old when I was 18 I thought I was a good driver until I spun my fathers mg zs up a mountain road I was so lucky it didn't go over on its roof. That taught me a lot, but an 18 year old with a civic type r on there first ever track day its a big risk and as been seen with this thread even with a low powered pug it cause a lot of damage. Also the quote on looking forward to racing at llandow is worrying you shouldn't be racing on a track day.Gassing Station | South Wales | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff