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Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Hi, my car just failed MOT in Ballymena for having HID lights and no washer system. Just another quaint difference between here and the mainland.

DVLA take new MOT regs and write test guides like this:
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps MAY be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work

i.e. if it aint there it don't matter

DVLNI take new MOT regs and write test guides like this:
High Intensity Discharge (HID) and LED dipped beam headlamps (whether original fitment or after-market) MUST be fitted with a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling.

Be aware of this important difference. I'm away to glue a supersoaker to my bumper.

stevieturbo

9,992 posts

134 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
It is a contentious issue here.

People have got letters from their car makers stating they were never fitted with washers, they do not need washers and cannot be retro fitted.

Our local MOT...dont give a fk. They'll pass cars with squashed brake pipes, dangerous brake discs etc etc, yet in their wisdom will fail a car for not having something it never had and does not need.

F**king mental.

Art0ir

7,345 posts

57 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Oldandslow said:
I'm away to glue a supersoaker to my bumper.

Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Serious question - Was that for MOT and did it pass?

stevieturbo

9,992 posts

134 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Oldandslow said:
Serious question - Was that for MOT and did it pass?
And it was done in all seriousness for MOT, as he refused to drill holes and mess about. Apparently a few testers were looking at it, but IMO they cannot fail it ( yes it did pass )

There are no guidelines as to how the washer works, how much water, what flow rate, what pressure, type of nozzle etc.

So he went and bought some tubing and a pump and some jets from Halfords and rigged it up temporarily.

Superb job if you ask me ! Still ridiculous he even had to do it though.



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Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
In classic PH style I felt compelled to write a strongly worded email. Maybe if they receive enough complaints they may rethink this part of the test. Stranger things have happened.

to dvta@doeni.gov.uk


Hello,

My car just failed MOT in Ballymena for having HID lights and no washer system. I noticed that there is a difference between how the new regs have been applied between Northern Ireland and the Mainland UK.

DVLA take new MOT regs and write test guides like this:
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps MAY be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work

i.e. if it wasn’t originally fitted then it doesn't matter

DVLNI take new MOT regs and write test guides like this:
High Intensity Discharge (HID) and LED dipped beam headlamps (whether original fitment or after-market) MUST be fitted with a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling.

I’ve since looked at many different cars as a bit of off the cuff research and noted that many are like mine in that they have factory fitted HID or LED lights and no washer system. Are the DVTA seriously expecting that all of these type approved Audi’s, BMW’s etc will retrofit a washer system to pass the local MOT? It’s a bit high handed when the UK DVLA have not insisted on it.

I’m hoping that this will not be a lone complaint but that you will receive many. I will be encouraging others to lodge their own.

pingu393

1,236 posts

92 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Rather than the tubing/pump bodge, why not put the original lights back on for the test?

Top bodge, btw clap

stevieturbo

9,992 posts

134 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
pingu393 said:
Rather than the tubing/pump bodge, why not put the original lights back on for the test?

Top bodge, btw clap
They are the original lights, so what exactly would you like the owner to do ?

Many cars have HID's as standard and no washers. It was only in 2010 manufacturers started fitting them as standard to cars with HID's
So there are quite a few, Subaru, Honda, BMW, Mitsubishi etc etc that have no washers and factory fitted HID's

VOSA seen sense and changed their wording, DVANI are f**kwits and are trying to enforce complete and utter nonsense just highlighting their own stupidity.




Jakg

1,283 posts

55 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
pingu393 said:
Rather than the tubing/pump bodge, why not put the original lights back on for the test?

Top bodge, btw clap
Some cars (i.e. imported Evo's for an example) never came with powerwash systems.

stevieturbo

9,992 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
And I think calling them washers is slightly misleading.

They wet the headlamp...they do not wash.

Art0ir

7,345 posts

57 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
I haven't been on here in some time but I'm sure this article came up at some stage

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...

Mitsubishi are "washing" their hands of it (geddit?) from what other Evo owners have been saying.

Just another example of government incompetence.

Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
Passed this to the Telegraph and UTV. Hoping they will pick it up as another local government agency incompetence/unnescessary cost to local motorists story. Worth a try anyway.

stevieturbo

9,992 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
Oldandslow said:
Passed this to the Telegraph and UTV. Hoping they will pick it up as another local government agency incompetence/unnescessary cost to local motorists story. Worth a try anyway.
Absolutely. Maybe even the RAC and AA should be involved too.

Could get the fat man on it too maybe ?

Art0ir

7,345 posts

57 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
stevieturbo said:
Absolutely. Maybe even the RAC and AA should be involved too.

Could get the fat man on it too maybe ?
Don't be silly only boy racers drive fast cars

bobd

972 posts

107 months

[news] 
Sunday 8th July 2012 quote quote all
The test criteria is for the UK and so should be interpreted the same here as per GB.
Once again another level of NI interpretation expenditure is applied on behalf of the consumers/ motorists wallet.
A bit like the MOT prep for washing under the car and polishing your brake lines so they can be inspected - beam me up!
The next thing we know well have a safety camera partnership here - oh we have now
getmecoat

Vipers

19,630 posts

115 months

[news] 
Sunday 8th July 2012 quote quote all
Is there a rational explanation why they need washers anyway, and ordinary lights dont, I guess they dont fit HID's to bikes then?



smile

Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Sunday 8th July 2012 quote quote all
If they are dirty it scatters the light and may make them dazzle an oncoming driver. More of an issue with HIDs as they are more intense.

The problem is many cars never had them and if they are not high pressure or have a wiper they really don't clean the lens anyway. You fit a washer system to pass the test not because it actually has any effect.

GB applied the new regs in the same way that the seatbelt regs were applied. Many classics date from before seatbelts were a legal requirement. These old cars get an exemption, if they have no seat belts then that part of the test is not applied. If you fit seat belts (voluntarily) then they must work.

I've written to my MLA as well. Again it's worth a try and I'd be delighted if you could write to yours as well

Find them here
http://aims.niassembly.gov.uk/mlas/Findmlas.aspx

Edited by Oldandslow on Sunday 8th July 14:21

Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
Well it's been 15 working days since I complained to the DVA about my car failing MOT. They promised to reply within 10 working days in line with their complaints procedure. Even though I expect it to be a formal "suck it and do one" reply you'd think they could manage it in a couple of weeks.

Now I've complained about their handling of complaints. This "strongly worded email" stuff is addictive.

Art0ir

7,345 posts

57 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
So do you still have no MOT?

Oldandslow

Original Poster:

1,167 posts

93 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
I fitted standard type lights and passed a retest. I just don't think it's fair that I had to just because I have a BT postcode.

Apparently they did reply 4 days later. I was sent a scanned copy of a letter this morning. It quotes the EC regulation numbers for type approval and vehicle testing. Apparently the reason for the difference between DVA and VOSA's interpretation is "to take account of a new electric vehicle that has been type approved with HID headlamps and without washers as the headlamps are low output and emit less than 2000 Lumen. DVA will now consider whether a change in the future is required to our testers manual as a result of this information however these vehicles will not be subject to annual test for another 4 years in Northern Ireland."

Now just analysing this quickly
VOSA have written test regs to take account of a single car model that won't need tested for years.
In doing so have created a loophole that allows older cars to pass MOT. Cars that are illegal according to the DVA due to EC type approval regs being retrospective to the beginning of time.
VOSA did not think to write an exemption stating outputs of less than 2000 Lumen.
DVA will rewrite their regs in 4 years, so if you can wait you'll get your HID lights to pass then, unless they think to include a 2000 lumen limit.

The bureaucratic bullst is flying back and forth. The DVA seem to be saying VOSA don't know what the fk they are doing. Unfortunately DVA's incompetence is more obstructive.
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