Ultima GTR beat Top Gear lap record
Discussion
I guess congratulations is in order for the Ultima. Reality is, there is nothing really special about the Ultima - standard wishbone suspension attached to a pipe frame with a lightweight plastic body over it and 720 horsepower - sounds like dozens of other vehicles around. Im sure an Esprit with the same power plant would have a similar performance outcome.
Kiwi XTR2 said:
Dear Santa . . . 
Though it'd be a tough call between an Ultima and one of these:
http://www.gdcars.com/gdt70/gdt70_index.htm
Which apparently has a significantly better chassis, but is somewhat lacking in the roof department.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 26th October 00:48
RobDickinson said:
Esprit struggles with the 350bhp it has doesnt it?
Dismissing the Ultima just because anyone else could do it is silly, no one else has done it. Not that well, not for that price.
I dont know how you mean an Esprit 'struggles' with 350hp. Ive never known an Esprit of any kind to 'struggle'. There are many people who have 'done it'. As the report says, the people at Ultima have 'struggled' to get their car on the TopGear program. Imagine if many of those guys who have made such cars in their garages, (one-off specials) were allowed to put them on the TopGear program? I think you would be quite amazed at the amount of 'good' cars out there that the Ultima is equal to. Here we are just talking about one telly show where they are somewhat baised as to what they wish to report on, and what they wish to display.Dismissing the Ultima just because anyone else could do it is silly, no one else has done it. Not that well, not for that price.
I never dismissed the Ultima, as it is an achievement for light weight and lots of power.
I just think too much is made of it, when light weight and lots of power in such a configuration can only be a winner for any vehicle.
The v8's dont eat gearboxes then?
The Esprit is a great car for sure, love them, but saying lotus could have made a 700bhp version of the Esprit that goes as fast as the Ultima is irrelevant, they didnt and cant now.
Ultima still have a kit car stigma for some reason where Caterham and Westfield dont, not sure if its that reason topgear wont show one or what. But saying anyone can make a light v8 super quick car is wrong, who else makes a ~1 ton v8 2 seater? Even the carbon fiber bodied expesive exotica is usualy 200-300kg's heavier.
The Esprit is a great car for sure, love them, but saying lotus could have made a 700bhp version of the Esprit that goes as fast as the Ultima is irrelevant, they didnt and cant now.
Ultima still have a kit car stigma for some reason where Caterham and Westfield dont, not sure if its that reason topgear wont show one or what. But saying anyone can make a light v8 super quick car is wrong, who else makes a ~1 ton v8 2 seater? Even the carbon fiber bodied expesive exotica is usualy 200-300kg's heavier.
RobDickinson said:
The v8's dont eat gearboxes then?
The Esprit is a great car for sure, love them, but saying lotus could have made a 700bhp version of the Esprit that goes as fast as the Ultima is irrelevant, they didnt and cant now.
Ultima still have a kit car stigma for some reason where Caterham and Westfield dont, not sure if its that reason topgear wont show one or what. But saying anyone can make a light v8 super quick car is wrong, who else makes a ~1 ton v8 2 seater? Even the carbon fiber bodied expesive exotica is usualy 200-300kg's heavier.
Lotus had to cater to the masses of bad and abusive drivers as does any manufacturer. It doesnt matter what kind of gearbox you have, it can be broken with bad driving and/or abuse. There are shortfalls with the orginal design of the Renault box when used with high torque engines, but there are good fixes for them - I have one sitting on my workshop bench right now, new shafts, gears etc etc.The Esprit is a great car for sure, love them, but saying lotus could have made a 700bhp version of the Esprit that goes as fast as the Ultima is irrelevant, they didnt and cant now.
Ultima still have a kit car stigma for some reason where Caterham and Westfield dont, not sure if its that reason topgear wont show one or what. But saying anyone can make a light v8 super quick car is wrong, who else makes a ~1 ton v8 2 seater? Even the carbon fiber bodied expesive exotica is usualy 200-300kg's heavier.
Lotus could easily make a high powered car, but as I said, they have to cater to the masses and convince the 'Board' as to what they were doing.
It is not good product planning to make one version of car better than say the flagship vehicle, eg: a 350hp 4-cylinder esprit vs the 350hp V8. It can quite easily be done but its not going to be good for sales and product planning. Companies have to have stratigies to work by, doesnt mean they 'cannot' do something.
As for the <1Ton V8 2 seater that 'anyone' can build, how about a Caterham SEight for starters? And when I use the word 'anyone' I mean those who have the money, ability and facility to do so. That cuts out all those who seem to be impressed by facts and figures.
RobDickinson said:
Esprit struggles with the 350bhp it has doesnt it?
Where did you read that?Edited to add my cars got around 450bhp apparently, only mods alloy actuators 0.9 bar boost and PUK racing chip. Tranny is fine!! Theres a crowd in the UK that specialize in turning Esprits into GT1 racers for people who like the numbers game and more money than sense that are extemely quick. I just received footage from a guy in the UK whos extreme Esprit is running 550bhp. It also shows footage of inside one of these GT1 cars in action lapping everything I would have thought to be far superior in its path.!!
So yeah bit of cash thrown at anything you can make it go!!
Edited by Kylie on Friday 26th October 01:33
RobDickinson said:
But saying anyone can make a light v8 super quick car is wrong, who else makes a ~1 ton v8 2 seater?
www.gdcars.com for a start (and most of the Cobra and GT40 reps too)
Not taking anything away from the Ultima though, its by far the most main-stream of the V8 kit-cars and has the development put in to give engine/gearbox/chassis combinations that work very well without requiring as much know-how from the owners as some kits would.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 26th October 01:43
RobDickinson said:
Kylie said:
So yeah bit of cash thrown at anything you can make it go!!
True, bit of cash can make a lot of difference...IMo Lotius should be making the Elan, Elise, Exige, m250/Noble and some R8/Esprit type motor.
Kylie said:
RobDickinson said:
Kylie said:
So yeah bit of cash thrown at anything you can make it go!!
True, bit of cash can make a lot of difference...IMo Lotius should be making the Elan, Elise, Exige, m250/Noble and some R8/Esprit type motor.
I can't believe the number of arguments that have broken out over this report!
I think the bottom line is that the Ultima is more than the sum of it's high quality parts. For the same money you couldn't get or modify a Lotus that would touch it but that doesn't make the Esprit any less delicious.
Most of the other specialist manufacturers, including those mentioned, claim amazing performance statistics but very few of them have gone to the lengths that Ultima have in proving them.
I love 'em but then I love anything that's got four wheels and is remotely interesting to drive!
I think the bottom line is that the Ultima is more than the sum of it's high quality parts. For the same money you couldn't get or modify a Lotus that would touch it but that doesn't make the Esprit any less delicious.
Most of the other specialist manufacturers, including those mentioned, claim amazing performance statistics but very few of them have gone to the lengths that Ultima have in proving them.
I love 'em but then I love anything that's got four wheels and is remotely interesting to drive!
Roger A said:
.....bit of cash thrown at anything can make it go?
Bit like this...?http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/07/so...
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