Dartford toll free-flow system...(and increased payments)

[greygoose]

markoc said:

Monday went through Essex > Kent like a hot knife through butter.

Kent > Essex though. Horrid. Somehow the tunnel just isn't working as well - and I just don't get it. 4 lanes, same speed restrictions and tailbacks as far as the eye could see. No restrictions in the tunnels, or on flow. Just stupidly F'ing slow. Really don't get it.

Every day it seems to be on the traffic reports in the morning for delays.

[Humpy D]

CAPP0 said:

Comments above about closing a tunnel for tankers noted, that must be part of it but they always used to do that anyway (well, not close, but hold back while they escort).

Whatever else it is or isn't, it's a bloody mess.

I do think this is a major part of the problem. They seem to stop the traffic for far longer than is necessary in order to let tankers through. Stop the traffic, fine, but then get a HA vehicle behind the tankers (to stop anyone overtaking) and then let the traffic go. I don't see the point of stopping the traffic for the 10 minutes it may take for the tankers to clear the tunnel. When I got to the left hand tunnel last night they had closed it for a few minutes, when I get through there were no signs of tankers, etc so goodness knows what that was all about.

There are problems there this morning; right hand tunnel was closed due to an accident. So there's a good chance the traffic will be bad all day.

[Digby]

Do you still have to give way as you join just before the tunnel if for example you had come from Erith along Bob Dunn Way and wanted to go Essex bound?

I found myself in that area several weeks ago coming from the Greenhithe side and it was absolutely jammed.It was so bad, to get out of 'The Bridge' industrial area off BD Way (despite me wanting to go towards Erith) it was easier to turn left back towards Greenhithe, go up and round the roundabout for Crossways Blvd / M25 and come back on myself.The alternative was to sit at the lights watching them change from red to green and back again dozens of times.Any time anything moved, there was never a sufficient gap to get out and turn right before the lights went red again.

If that is still the system in place, I would imagine everyone trying to filter out may be part of the problem going from Kent to Essex.

[Humpy D]

It's no difference to what it used to be i.e. traffic has to filter in and if the traffic is nose to tail (i.e. always!) then I can see it being a problem.

I was approaching the r/h tunnel last night about 6pm when the traffic lights turned red and the barriers came down across all 4 lanes. An abnormal load was then escorted from the 'holding' lane, came across the inside 2 lanes and then into the r/h tunnel (as presumably it was overheight). But you'd have thought that once it had entered the r/h tunnel the lights and barriers controlling the l/h tunnel would have been lifted. But no, the lights stayed red and they went green for both tunnels at the same time. The lights weren't red for long as we caught the abnormal load up before it exitted the r/h tunnel but I think it's things like this that they need to think about.

[Gixer]

No, that's pretty much the same in that you get the inside lane, however they fked up the light phasing during the works and it's still screwing the traffic.

One thing I have noticed this week when it is flowing a bit and that's the number of drivers that are still slowing to 20mph through the lights and cameras. The ridiculous 20mph restriction was lifted months ago, the clue being those big boards on the side of the road with 50 on them

[DirrieMore]

I'm just back from a rather nice trip from here on the sunny Isle of Man to Newenden on the Kent and East Sussex border. I made the journey down via the M6, M6 toll (paying was ridiculously simple, the lady on the toll booth nice), M42, M40, M25, A21 and A268. No problems en route barring the usual nightmare getting through Lancaster from Heysham port made worse by the main road in being closed.

I intended to return the same way but I had a couple of texts advising me that the M25 was closed on the southern side so, this time returning from Folkestone, I took the M20 and opted for the dreaded tunnel and north via the M1. Already slightly tired after a long day and having not driven that way before I approached the crossing around half 7 and hit stationary traffic a mile or so out slightly confused when the road split into two but a tad relieved at the delay as it meant I could sort out some change. A silver Almera pulled alongside with his window down so I enquired how much the toll was. "£2.50, I think". Cheers, ta. Wait, you think? That's ominous..

So the traffic frees up, I'm concentrating on 3 things: firstly my immediate task of driving the car in a congested environment; secondly being ready to pay and thirdly making sure I was still on the right road. I noticed several mentions of "Dart Card" and was most surprised to emerge on the other side of the Thames toll free and with free flowing traffic. Being in the Sarf east I had an ominous feeling that unlike in Scotland, which abolished tolls, something could come back to haunt me. I pressed on, passing an enormous tailback on the A12 junction and eventually home to the rock.

On return I did a quick online search and the subject of this thread came up. How the hell is someone new to the area supposed to know about this? Say there were going from the north of the country to France they'd return home to a letter and a £70 fine. For what? Using part of the national road network?! I'm not aware of any other bridge or toll road using this system in the UK except the congestion charge in London and that's the last place I'd want to go. Except maybe Syria.

We have our own vehicle agency over here so I await with interest to see if a letter drops through my door. If it does they'll get a polite letter back offering to pay the £2.50 and enquiring where one can purchase psychic powers so that I could be aware of this hair-brained scheme in advance.

[The Don of Croy]

DirrieMore said:

Understandably frustrated stuff...

Welcome to the South East!

Those pesky tolls are what pays for Scotland's toll free bridges - it isn't widely advertised but it was some Gov't stitch up after the QE2 bridge was handed over to the DoT debt free.

Because we in the SE can afford to pay, and we have massive traffic flows to cream off the fat. Win-win.

I'm sure there is a parallel with the IoM Steam Packet Co monopoly position, but I can't defend it.

The stats on revenue from tolls and revenues from speeding fines will make interesting reading - for people like you making an infrequent visit keeping to the 50 limit may not be obvious...

[Conscript]

DirrieMore said:

On return I did a quick online search and the subject of this thread came up. How the hell is someone new to the area supposed to know about this? Say there were going from the north of the country to France they'd return home to a letter and a £70 fine. For what? Using part of the national road network?! I'm not aware of any other bridge or toll road using this system in the UK except the congestion charge in London and that's the last place I'd want to go. Except maybe Syria.

We have our own vehicle agency over here so I await with interest to see if a letter drops through my door. If it does they'll get a polite letter back offering to pay the £2.50 and enquiring where one can purchase psychic powers so that I could be aware of this hair-brained scheme in advance.

With respect, the introduction of Dart Charge was massively advertised throughout the entire country, through the use of matrix signs, radio adverts, etc. That you are completely unaware of it actually surprises me - I've read posts from people living at the other end of the country confused as to why they are seeing matrix signs referencing changes to a toll system hundred of miles from them that they'd never heard of

Also, a bit of an update. I've usually been very defensive of the changes to the toll system at the tunnel, but over the last few weeks, my opinion is beginning to change. I'm now noticing that more often than not, the approach to the toll is massively congested. I went several weeks in a row a couple of months ago, where I didn't once use the M25 on my way home because it was congested.

But it seems to be massively variable. This week, for instance, it's been fine every evening at rush hour, with no queues at all. The week before, the opposite was true. I think that the system is now more fragile; assuming no undue disruption, the tunnel flows fine, but as soon as there is so much as a breakdown or a lorry using the wrong lane, it causes a massive headache. I really hope they can refine the system sooner rather than later.

[s p a c e m a n]

Anyone having trouble registering for the local discount scheme online? I don't seem to have a submit button on the webpage, I can upload documents but there's no way to move on from the page, no submit button??

[Grey Ghost]

s p a c e m a n said:

Anyone having trouble registering for the local discount scheme online? I don't seem to have a submit button on the webpage, I can upload documents but there's no way to move on from the page, no submit button??

I had to call them to ask the same question and was told to send my copied documents to the postal address provided and then got an email confirming my account was up and running.

They're French so technology is a little beyond them.

[s p a c e m a n]

Thanks, I've done it once online but need to swap it to another car now. Figured I'd wait a couple of weeks to see if they'd fixed it and then thought maybe it was just doing it on my computer. Nope, it's them and they're just being french

[DirrieMore]

Conscript: I'm surprised myself that I missed this - especially as someone who used to be a bit of a roads anorak! I only take the car across to the mainland once a year and then it's from Liverpool or Heysham to Scotland (and our lovely toll free bridges so yet another stealth tax in what as well may be a foreign land would easily be missed.

As for the speed limits well even such an infrequent motorway user as me spotted those - but maybe they couldn't get me for those either.. In the meantime I think the best idea is to just avoid the Greater London area full stop. Rural Kent and East Sussex were lovely though

As for the monopoly of the Steam Racket, don't get me started. But at least I know the cost before I get on the boat.

[Scousefella]

Black Gallardo Spider plated GO 51MON in Chelmsford and a Green Huracan with nose to tail stripe on the A12 near Hatfield Peverel (parked in a layby) both on Monday.

[SonicShadow]

The Don of Croy said:

The stats on revenue from tolls and revenues from speeding fines will make interesting reading - for people like you making an infrequent visit keeping to the 50 limit may not be obvious...

The big round signs with a 5 and a 0 on them (white background, black text, outer circle) make it pretty obvious. There's no excuse for getting caught!

[Sticks.]

I'm not a regular user of the crossing but have to go tomorrow. Has it improved at all?

Thanks

[Humpy D]

Sticks. said:

I'm not a regular user of the crossing but have to go tomorrow. Has it improved at all?

Thanks

Depends which way youre talking about. Essex into Kent is usually fine. Kent into Essex, well that's another story.

Last week it was a nightmare; evening rush hour the queue was pretty much back to (and beyond) junction 4 every day. But I think a lot of that was down to it being half term so all the world's parents and their offspring just had to go to Bluewater and/or Lakeside.

It's looking ok at the moment though although it only takes one closure of one of the tunnels to quickly turn things the other way!!

[markoc]

Having three pieces of road join the Kent>Essex stretch within about a mile of the start of the tunnel seems to be a causal factor. Whoever designed the main route out of bluewater wants shooting, because when the lemmings are released from their day's shopping they all try and head down one piece of road. The volume of merging traffic is horrific.

It'll never be fixed. Just don't travel between 7am and 8pm and you/ll be fine. In fact, is it still free before 6am and after 10pm?

[anonymous-user]

Humpy D said:

Depends which way youre talking about. Essex into Kent is usually fine. Kent into Essex, well that's another story.

Last week it was a nightmare; evening rush hour the queue was pretty much back to (and beyond) junction 4 every day. But I think a lot of that was down to it being half term so all the world's parents and their offspring just had to go to Bluewater and/or Lakeside.

It's looking ok at the moment though although it only takes one closure of one of the tunnels to quickly turn things the other way!!

I work on Crossways (so inbetween BW and the Bridge) this time of year its just generally a nightmare, as soon as the clocks go back things invariably go to st, we don't really know why just the same every year. Last week was spectacularly st though, handily I w@h on Fridays, took my mate 1 hour to get from Work to his home in Greenhithe (about 2 miles)

[Sticks.]

Thanks for your comments. Yes, going into Essex (coming off the A2) was what I was concerned about, which will probably be @9.30. I'm going to Stanmore so I'm almost tempted to go M26 and clockwise but it's longer and the potential for delays is almost as bad.

Thanks.

[anonymous-user]

Sticks. said:

Thanks for your comments. Yes, going into Essex (coming off the A2) was what I was concerned about, which will probably be @9.30. I'm going to Stanmore so I'm almost tempted to go M26 and clockwise but it's longer and the potential for delays is almost as bad.

Thanks.

At 9:30 I'd take my chances rather than the nightmare which is Heathrow corner, if it is bad, coming off the A2 at Bean (if you are coming from Kent) passing BW and through Crossways up to 1B might be quicker than the flyover