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dvs_dave

Original Poster:

4,095 posts

113 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th May 2011 quote quote all
PHer typer car, avaialble in both markets?

Good example is a BMW M3.
On the road prices for both(base spec):
UK: approx GBP56k
USA: approx USD60k

Big cost difference there wouldn't you agreee?

belleair302

5,152 posts

95 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th May 2011 quote quote all
Most of that will be tax. 20 % VAT in the UK.....7% in the US. Also the UK has always been somewhat expensive for buying cars compared to many Euro based countries.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

133 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th May 2011 quote quote all
dvs_dave said:
PHer typer car, avaialble in both markets?

Good example is a BMW M3.
On the road prices for both(base spec):
UK: approx GBP56k
USA: approx USD60k

Big cost difference there wouldn't you agreee?
What's weird is if you check the prices at 3yrs old in both countries you'll find they're very similar. So there's very little depreciation in the US, vs massive depreciation in the UK. That's the bit I don't get about the US - when new car seem reasonably priced, what on earth holds up the used values?

We know the UK is particularly bad for depreciation. My theory is it's a lot to do with the twice yearly plate change here - a 3yr old car has gone through 6 plate changes so it makes it "age" very quickly.


belleair302 said:
Most of that will be tax. 20 % VAT in the UK.....7% in the US. Also the UK has always been somewhat expensive for buying cars compared to many Euro based countries.
Yes, and bear in mind the UK price above will include VAT but the in the US prices exclude sales tax. Still a chunky difference though, although bear in mind that when you're in the US one dollar typically does have the same purchasing power as one pound here, so the car feels like it's the same cost.

Also, the UK isn't expensive now due to the strength of the Euro - cars are dearer in Germany etc than they are here. It's one of the reasons why UK lead-times have gone right out.

Edited by Deva Link on Sunday 24th July 15:13

Matt Harper

3,728 posts

89 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th May 2011 quote quote all
dvs_dave said:
PHer typer car, avaialble in both markets?

Good example is a BMW M3.
On the road prices for both(base spec):
UK: approx GBP56k
USA: approx USD60k

Big cost difference there wouldn't you agreee?
Given that dollars go as far as pounds, this car is 4k more expensive in the US than UK, in real-world terms.

dvs_dave

Original Poster:

4,095 posts

113 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th May 2011 quote quote all
But do they? I guess I've not been here long enough to figure out if that's actually the case but so far it doesn't seem that way on a day to day basis.

It still seems that the on the road "real world" prices in the US are lower than in the UK so don't understand why depreciation is so low.

As mentioned before, from a supply and demand standpoint it doesn't make sense. What other factors am I missing?
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Matt Harper

3,728 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 30th May 2011 quote quote all
Aside from gasoline, what else is cheaper here than in the UK, without doing a meaningless $/Sterling conversion?

Deva Link

26,934 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 30th May 2011 quote quote all
Matt Harper said:
Aside from gasoline, what else is cheaper here than in the UK, without doing a meaningless $/Sterling conversion?
Eating out, at any given standard. Which I don't really understand, as food in supermarkets is similar price to UK. And engine oil.

belleair302

5,152 posts

95 months

[news] 
Monday 30th May 2011 quote quote all
Clothes, labor rates, white kitchen goods, A/V goods, Computers.....pretty much everything and tyres!!! Shipping costs in the US are cheaper due to gas prices being lower and market share. The UK population is 1/5 th of the US but the economy is well under 10% the size.

Matt Harper

3,728 posts

89 months

[news] 
Monday 30th May 2011 quote quote all
Deva Link said:
Eating out, at any given standard. Which I don't really understand, as food in supermarkets is similar price to UK. And engine oil.
Can't argue with motor oil DL - just checked and Halfords sell a litre of 0W-40 Mobil 1 for 17 quid!!! I did an oil change on my car yesterday and a quart cost $6.50 (I do need 7 of them, but that is a huge difference, that I wasn't aware of).

I'm a little surprised by the eating out thing though. I was in UK earlier this month and scoffed at a variety of establishments both high-end and roadside squalor. I found that Little Chef and Denny's offer the same st for the same price, more or less (no grits at Little Chef, however).
Dined in town (London and Leeds) - naturally London was more spendy, but still on a par with US equivilants (i.e. a beef entre costing 35 quid was pretty much what I'd expect to get for $35.

Someone said white goods and computers. It's been a while since I bought a fridge or a laptop in UK
So how much is a mid market full height side-by-side fridge freezer? I'm guessing 13-1400? Boggo HP laptop? 500, maybe? Pair of Levi's? 40? What does an iPad cost in the UK?

Getting back to used cars, I wonder if the absence of a company car culture has some effect on the market. I don't know this for sure, but I suspect that US consumers may keep their car longer that UK counterparts do, given that that car's age can't be as easily determined by the license plate and the driving environment is somehat kinder mechanically.
I cannot remember ever seeing used cars retailed with over 100k on them in the UK (that may have changed in recent years), but it's quite shocking to see how many 'to the moon and back' cars are offered for daft money by dealers who do so with a straight face.

david968s

415 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 17th June 2011 quote quote all
The market is weird here, for sure. 2 yrs ago, friend here buys 2 yo 911 Carrera S with 12k miles for $55k. Today, a 2yo identical car will cost $70k. Part of that is that he bought at the right time i.e. financial fears abound, but it doesn't explain all of it.

Around here, $65k will get you into a brand new Jag XF Supercharged of reasonable spec, which seems like a bargain. But a 2010 one can be had for $50k and a 2009 for $40k so depreciation is relatively steep.

Most of the Euro dealers will offer reasonable finance to expats who have arrived with no credit history - good way to start building good credit.

PaulFontaine

629 posts

42 months

[news] 
Saturday 23rd July 2011 quote quote all
Yes used cars are very expensive in the US compared with their identical year and model UK versions shockingly so. The car is really a necessity and part of life here without one its quite difficult to get by. I am jealous every time I read the ads in the UK. I simply take solace in the fact that we in the US have much better roads and much, much more room to drive in.

If you'd really like to see depreciation inequity look at the price of a new Toyota or Honda model and a model that's the same and only one or two years old. Surprisingly there is very little depreciation

jeff m

3,866 posts

146 months

[news] 
Monday 25th July 2011 quote quote all
I think it's a combination of perceived useful life remaining in the States and those silly number plates that show the year in UK.

A lot of cars in the US s/h market are also much lower mileage because they are not driven as commuter cars often second or third cars. Big difference in insurance toosmile

Poor ( not a word I like) how about assetless.... people feel the need to show that they are not poor or assetless so they go out and get a loan for a new car because their numberplate has agedsmile

Just a thought.....as you can now order a plate that is not currently used, why not order a plate that will indicate 2016 as the orig registration.
After 5 years I'm sure some idiot will pay way over price for your 10 year old car, assuming its shiney.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 25th July 2011 quote quote all
jeff m said:
Just a thought.....as you can now order a plate that is not currently used, why not order a plate that will indicate 2016 as the orig registration.
You're not allowed to use a plate which shows a newer registration year than when the car was first registered.

I reckon the new car market would be absolutely decimated in the UK if the date marker was taken off registration plates.

MadmanO/T People

625 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th August 2011 quote quote all
bridgdav said:
I have been here for 3 months.. Cannot Buy or Lease a car without credit history. Trying to buy an older model with minimum miles is so expensive. Carmax ans others want too much IMO for base models with high miles.

It is a merry-go-round that hasn't let me get on yet.

Any advice..?

Cary - North Carolina
I'm afraid your options are limited. Your only choice may be going to a "Tote the Note" used car dealer; one that sells leggy bangers to hard-up punters at exorbitant prices. Since these types of dealers do their own in-house financing (We "Tote the Note") and are not at the mercy of banks or lending companies, having a lengthy credit history is not a prerequisite. However, you WILL get ripped-off on price. That's the price you will pay for easy approval and terms.

PaulFontaine

629 posts

42 months

[news] 
Thursday 11th August 2011 quote quote all
Since the current economic crisis banks are pretty much only lending to grade A buyers with a solid credit and work history as to reduce their credit risk. It will take bout 13 months to establish a credit history in the US. Personally were I in the same boat I would purchase a more basic yet reliable car from a private seller for cash if that is not a possibility for you there are numerous smaller dealers that will actually hold the paper for you as the previous poster indicated and in about a year you can sell that car and perhaps obtain a newer model but again the finance fees not necessarily the cost of the car will most like amount to more than the car is actually worth so you could wind up in a situation where you owe far more than the cars actual value. Carmax while they have newer models of cars and trucks in usually excellent condition is know for overpaying for the cars they purchase and since in america a car is a necessity there is and will continue to be a strong demand for quality use cars here.

h0b0

2,183 posts

84 months

[news] 
Friday 12th August 2011 quote quote all
These seem cheap for the money,
http://www.leasetrader.com/lease-specials/2011-Mer...

And they have gone up from last week when they were $389 a month and $0 down. So, I took look at Kelly Blue book and a ML350 bought for approx $42k in 2008 would now be worth $37k (private and $40k dealer). So, the lease is only financing the depreciation of $5k over 3 years. In fact assuming there is more than $5k profit in a new car they are financing the difference between what the car costs them new and what they can sell it for at the end of the lease which may mean there is still profit on the $40k price even ignoring the revenue generated from the lease. That is insane, Why would you buy used?



unrepentant

16,160 posts

144 months

[news] 
Friday 12th August 2011 quote quote all
h0b0 said:
These seem cheap for the money,
http://www.leasetrader.com/lease-specials/2011-Mer...

And they have gone up from last week when they were $389 a month and $0 down. So, I took look at Kelly Blue book and a ML350 bought for approx $42k in 2008 would now be worth $37k (private and $40k dealer). So, the lease is only financing the depreciation of $5k over 3 years. In fact assuming there is more than $5k profit in a new car they are financing the difference between what the car costs them new and what they can sell it for at the end of the lease which may mean there is still profit on the $40k price even ignoring the revenue generated from the lease. That is insane, Why would you buy used?
That lease is only for 7500 miles pa, which is tiny - we don't even quote below 10k. KBB prices bear little relation to reality in most cases. Edmunds shows clean trade for an average mileage 2008 ML350 to be $28k with retail $32k. New MSRP was $44k. Black book will be a little lower.

PaulFontaine

629 posts

42 months

[news] 
Friday 12th August 2011 quote quote all
h0b0 said:
These seem cheap for the money,
http://www.leasetrader.com/lease-specials/2011-Mer...

And they have gone up from last week when they were $389 a month and $0 down. So, I took look at Kelly Blue book and a ML350 bought for approx $42k in 2008 would now be worth $37k (private and $40k dealer). So, the lease is only financing the depreciation of $5k over 3 years. In fact assuming there is more than $5k profit in a new car they are financing the difference between what the car costs them new and what they can sell it for at the end of the lease which may mean there is still profit on the $40k price even ignoring the revenue generated from the lease. That is insane, Why would you buy used?
Well a couple quick points first i disagree with your cost basis on the ML a) depending on spec but higher new price than much closer to the mid to high $40's second the value currently is far less than $38k
http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/m-class/2008/...
( no where will you find a $5k depreciation on any Mercedes over a three year period even with hi spec and low miles ) that being said especially with certain cars there is a sizable price differential here on three factors,1) time of year 2) Current gas Prices 3) geographic location

There is also a set "buyout" amount of the cars future price agreed upon at lease inception over three years you are looking at closer to a $15k drop on an ML. Also on various leases depending on the company you will range (considering a AAA lessee) from $0 down to several thousand down. Again the other factor is mileage allotment at 7500 miles when the average driver here does 12-15K miles the overage is significant at .25-.33 a mile over. So on that bais i dont think this lease is that great a deal the same story is not true on the Japanese end of the market. Here' an article i just saw today which is further depressing news for US buyers in comparison to the UK

Just a couple years after U.S. auto sales plunged to their lowest levels in decades, dealers are finding an industry-wide shortage of used vehicles. This lack of used inventory has driven up the price of scarce pre-owned vehicles on lots, sending more and more consumers into aggressively priced new vehicles. One economist says as many as 500,000 people who intend on purchasing used will instead take delivery on new vehicles by mid-2012.

This phenomenon wasn't completely unexpected. When production and sales slumped, many realized the steady supply of returned leased and fleet vehicles – which traditionally deliver late-model low-mileage inventory – would slow to a trickle down the road. The used vehicles are often reconditioned by dealers for sale with extended warranties, but special financing and automaker incentive packages usually don't apply. Parked next to new vehicles, with aggressive pricing and low interest rates, consumers are finding only a marginal jump in price (if any) will put the aroma of a freshly minted vehicle in their driveway.

The news is good for automakers such as BMW (new car sales up 13 percent), GM and Ford (both expecting a 10 percent boost). However, most Japanese automakers are still reeling after production losses earlier this year which won't allow them to stock lots and take full advantage of the unique situation. Industry experts, who are able to trend new and used vehicle sales, predict the used car market will remain strong for at least the next year or two.
News Source: Bloomberg

Edited by PaulFontaine on Friday 12th August 15:26

dvs_dave

Original Poster:

4,095 posts

113 months

[news] 
Saturday 13th August 2011 quote quote all
Yep, figures. Just been going round some Chicago dealers close to me and the prices are still comical. Since when was an '06 300C SRT-8 with 60k miles worth $29k!?!?!?! Here it seems to be. Outrageous!

Having said that, Pontiac G8 GT's (aka Holden Commodore/Vauxhall VXR8) seem like a very good buy with an 08-09 with not many miles around the $20k mark. They're actually very good cars and the one I tried drove much better than the SRT-8 and felt just as quick.

Anything SUV shaped though is still a piss take.

h0b0

2,183 posts

84 months

[news] 
Saturday 13th August 2011 quote quote all
unrepentant said:
That lease is only for 7500 miles pa, which is tiny - we don't even quote below 10k.
Should have mentioned that I am trying to get into a new job where I wouldn't use the car so I will be changing from doing 30k miles to next to no miles but I would still need a car for rare use. Two spanners in the works though, first, I need to get a new job which really isn't going to plan and second I have been offered the following,

Merc, S430 2002 20k miles $20k
Grand Cherokee 2005 5.7 Hemi 70k miles $12k

Both owned from new by my mother in law who spares no expense on her vehicles. The Merc has never seen snow either so now I am looking at almost reasonably price alternatives to new cars in great condition.
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