G4 info

[dandarez]

mikeg15 said:

GTRene said:

how about those fixed windows...
do they leak?
do they go to the outside (cabin pressure etc) a bit when driving fast and make lots of noise?

Does this answer your question?

If that is the car I think it is, it has a 'full' cage and is a very modified Dare G4. Door screens have been known to move out but that has to be excessive and not the norm. On a road car, which is what most would be talking about, it is very unlikely. I drove motorways and dual carriageways at speed in the first Dare G4 in 1998 and never had a problem or even a notice of it. For Rene's benefit, a road Dare G4 rides superbly well, and interior noise is not excessive for such a car. In fact, it's civilised for what it is. I remember driving more miles than I wished for on the M40 in absolutely torrential rain and it leaked but only through an ill-fitting front screen rubber one corner. Mind you, that was the least of my worries, in rain and spray like that the G4 virtually disappears to other road users being so tiny and low. At one point I got over to the slow lane as visibility from the lashing rain and spray was so bad. Imp rear lights, so low down, on such a tiny car, are virtually useless in conditions like that among modern traffic. But the car is huge fun.

I have to say I can't recall seeing side screens 'bend' out like that on a race car in all they years I watched G4s race either, well, definitely not to that extreme! There are plenty of photos of G4s at high speed without that happening, and film.
That's not to say they don't.

The rear screen 'popping', however, is well-known. Hence brackets (ugly - sometime extremely ugly ones) are fitted for prevention, even seen them on road G4s. Only one race G4 I have seen has this rear screen securing done properly, ie brackets inside and neatly screwed through screen. Needless to say it's on that wonderful yellow G4 of Phil Chatterton.

Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 18th June 13:36

[lmasarati]

GTRene said:

are they all like that at high speed or do some have cabin-pressure valve's like more modern car also have, not meaning those's holes in the rear windows like say TVR racers have to prevent the rear window popping out.

you can have as many valves as you like; you just need a drill or a saw and some fantasy... :-)

[geeeman]

i always preferred to remove the side windows altogether in summer.
With them on, making small cutouts in the fibreglass where the hardtop has those small recesses makes sense to reduce pressure build up, but then it would leak badly if it rains

[GTRene]

thats why you need those cabin breathers, they only go open under pressure from the inside, when pressure comes from the outside or rain or no pressure they 'close'

something like these from the Z3M in the trunk, this example is placed up side down for the picture so the rubber valve drops open, just to see how it works I guess.

[geeeman]

surprised at the amount of bowing in that picture. the windows do have that small metal rod that attaches the inner surface of the window to the door, and i guess is supposed to prevent that from happening

[lmasarati]

dandarez said:

If that is the car I think it is

yes, it is... and it is still on sale.

[mikeg15]

geeeman said:

surprised at the amount of bowing in that picture. the windows do have that small metal rod that attaches the inner surface of the window to the door, and i guess is supposed to prevent that from happening

Those were the windows as supplied. The owner subsequently made braces for the side screens, and security fastenings for the rear screen. My old car as modified by the Goulds had something similar, though I was never in a position to test their efficacy. I'm just a bit surprised that such a well known problem was never addressed by the makers.

[dandarez]

mikeg15 said:

geeeman said:

surprised at the amount of bowing in that picture. the windows do have that small metal rod that attaches the inner surface of the window to the door, and i guess is supposed to prevent that from happening

Those were the windows as supplied. The owner subsequently made braces for the side screens, and security fastenings for the rear screen. My old car as modified by the Goulds had something similar, though I was never in a position to test their efficacy. I'm just a bit surprised that such a well known problem was never addressed by the makers.

I had a search through my files (going back years!) and apart from a odd mention of side screen movement, nothing. So it's not a 'well known' problem. I have just looked at the car in question and I reckon the substantial cage running so close to the door seal may play a part. Plus the side screens have the stays apparently moved (forward) so a different place to norm. I watched Mark Walklett racing the Dare G4 and can't recall him ever saying anything about side screens and i never noticed anything while watching. He was just about the fastest on the circuit too!

I studied a lot of the photos of him and one at Mallory shows a tad movement outwards as he takes (another) first over the line, definitely nothing extreme like the car in question. Again, this is on a full race car. I don't think it occurs on a road G4.

Side screen stay is virtually upright and nearer front pillar




Correct position of stay to hold side screen

Edited by dandarez on Thursday 20th June 19:04

[GTRene]

great pictures, maybe the other car does not have those holders?
never really noticed those 'bars' (shame shame) now you mentioned those I see them a lot in all my pictures I have on my PC

this one has the windows also a bit out although it looks it uses 2 bars?



here a nice combo, the bar and a nice looking interior

[G22man]

Lots of pics of my old long cockpit G4. To answer the question, at motorway speeds the windows bowed outwards, and the rain came in over the top of the sidescreens...

[mikeg15]

The G4 in my photograph was travelling at about 120mph.

[65ginetta]

I've never bothered with the side screens,I have fitted brackets to keep front and rear screens in place but its not too windy and I think hearing the noise is all part of a G4,it still makes my toes curl up when I blip the throttle and I forget all the hours and cash spent restoring the car

[h4887]

Hi, Vernon,
Do you know the original UK registration numbers of your G4s?

Geoff (ex - G4 owner!)

[65ginetta]

Sorry, neither of the cars were registered in UK. My round tube car was an original US import through Competition Car Engineering, Haverhill, Mass. I traced it through a couple of the previous owners and finally confirmed the details with Trevor at Ginetta Owners club
The square tube came from Georgia and had been raced extensively on the US West Coast. I'm restoring that with a Hayabusa Dry sump motor and wishbone IRS. Its for running on a road near my Tennessee home called "the dragons tail"
My project at the moment is a 1966, S3 Elan Coupe with a Brian Hart 1800 for my wife so the square tube G4 has to wait its turn. I ran the round tube today and can confirm its still totally addictive, once I manage to fit into it.
As they say,"It seems to get smaller as I get older" but once inside and strapped in, for a 48 year old car its got a remarkable turn of speed and goes round corners with enough speed to leave the modern V8 US sportscars for dead till we come to a straight bit.

[GTRene]

the car looks very sweet/good.

[OranGina]

Hello P50, congrats for placing an order for a brand new G4.
I own the first "ClubSport" G4 built by Dare back in 2003 for Paul Stephens (Porsche specialist).
It was a low weight (605kg) stripped bare track car when I got it then I added full windscreen, wipers, heater, hard-top, soft top. It's very noisy on the motoway (especially with HT on) but the handling is lovely and it turn more heads than a Ferrari.

Let me share some thoughts:
- be patient and be prepared to wait. I love guys at Dare and I'm constantly in contact with them since April 2011, they're very dedicated and helpful but it's a tiny team and I can't say they are quick.
- roll bar: the "classic" one with front mounted bracket is the original solution. It's weight saving because the rear chassis won't need any mounting points but having that long chromed bar near my head is not something I would fancy. The one without brackets it's pretty useless in cause of roll-over. The "racing" one is the nicest and the most robust.
- Wet sump. Good choice unless you'll do a lot of trackdays. You'll get less complexity, weight and more power (no additional oil pump) compared to the dry sumped engine
- Engine: power is never enough. I'd choose 4 throttle bodies and some mild tuning to achieve 180/190hp. Ask for a programmable ECU (I'm not sure Alpha Weber has such product) or be prepared to visit a Webcon appointed dealer in case you need some tuning. I didn't know Dare still accepts order for Zetec engined cars: can you still register a new car which is not Euro5 compliant in the UK?
- LSD: G4 is about roadholding, to fully enjoy its cornering capability you'll need an LSD. Dare uses Titan ones which are pretty good
- Wheels and Tyres. With 13" you'll find yourself struggling to find road-friendly tyres with right sizes. Yokohama A048 and Toyo R888 get to the right operating tempo only when pushed really hard and this happens mostly on the track. Dare recommends A048 but I would try R888 as its softer sidewall should work well with such lightweight car. I'd consider the 15" wheels too, there are a lot more tyres available. I'm not sure about how the G4 would look on 15"s.
- anti-roll bars: get them
- 12v socket: your satnav will like it
- colour: I'd go for a metallic one, maybe skipping silver that is quite "common" (if this term could apply to such a rare car)

[geeeman]

nice to see u here stefano!
agree with your comments on g4 spec, but 15 inch wheels i think wont suit it in terms of looks and weight

[mikeg15]

Don't forget Kumho V700 is available up to 235 section for 13" wheels. In 3 compounds, road legal. The softs are great for hills and sprints and the meds and hards for racing and road use. They are cheaper than ACB10s ( up to 245 section )but a bit more than 888s ( which are only available in smaller sections )

[OranGina]

Hi Geeman who are you in the real world? :-)

For road use I got a set of Avon CR500, they were developed for Caterham cars they should work well on the road and still be fun on the track if you're not lapping against the stopwatch.
As soon as I have time to try them I'll tell how they work.
Only think it's about sizes 185/55 and 205/55 are available on 13" that means you'll get shorter ratios on each gear.

Stefano

[geeeman]

OranGina said:

Hi Geeman who are you in the real world? :-)

For road use I got a set of Avon CR500, they were developed for Caterham cars they should work well on the road and still be fun on the track if you're not lapping against the stopwatch.
As soon as I have time to try them I'll tell how they work.
Only think it's about sizes 185/55 and 205/55 are available on 13" that means you'll get shorter ratios on each gear.

Stefano

thought youd know by now!
wont the 55 section lower your ride height abit?

Shadi