Anonymous sh*t stirrers
Discussion
Best way to treat those hiding behind false names is to ignore them. If they've got something useful to add then they should post under their real name (unless they have an embarrassing secret to hide).
John Smith??? original!!! Maybe for a mucky weekend away with the mistress but not really needed when talking cars.
A John Smith with inside knowledge of the GOC and its web forum. Must be a hacker then, as there is no John Smith in the GOC members register or as a registered user of the GOC forum.
John Smith??? original!!! Maybe for a mucky weekend away with the mistress but not really needed when talking cars.
A John Smith with inside knowledge of the GOC and its web forum. Must be a hacker then, as there is no John Smith in the GOC members register or as a registered user of the GOC forum.
g32turbo said:
Sorry Ted, if you're confused then it probably means you're one of the good guys. When trying to find out if a contributor is an authority on their subject you sometimes need to look beyond their username and into their profile.
Hi Tony,
Sorry to offend you! But is does need livening up here! Nice looking 27!
John
quite agree, i believe these f@cking idiots are called moles.
I'd be extremely worried if i were him, as several of his posts could quite easily form the basis of legal action, and he thinks he's hiding behind anonymity, but clearly knows as much about I T and service providers as he does about ginetta.
Everything i have ever posted in the public domian i have been prepared to say to someones face, if he wishes to continue his unfounded childish arguements i suggest he turns up to one of the meets as i for one will be more than happy to point out exactly what his problem is...
Now i suggest he f@cks off and leaves this forum to people who genuinely are interested in debate or need help, along with any of you others who wish to drag up the (romantic, actually usually bollox) versions of the past.
I'm saying no more.
I'd be extremely worried if i were him, as several of his posts could quite easily form the basis of legal action, and he thinks he's hiding behind anonymity, but clearly knows as much about I T and service providers as he does about ginetta.
Everything i have ever posted in the public domian i have been prepared to say to someones face, if he wishes to continue his unfounded childish arguements i suggest he turns up to one of the meets as i for one will be more than happy to point out exactly what his problem is...
Now i suggest he f@cks off and leaves this forum to people who genuinely are interested in debate or need help, along with any of you others who wish to drag up the (romantic, actually usually bollox) versions of the past.
I'm saying no more.
jamesg20 said:
quite agree, i believe these f@cking idiots are called moles.
I'd be extremely worried if i were him, as several of his posts could quite easily form the basis of legal action, and he thinks he's hiding behind anonymity, but clearly knows as much about I T and service providers as he does about ginetta.
Everything i have ever posted in the public domian i have been prepared to say to someones face, if he wishes to continue his unfounded childish arguements i suggest he turns up to one of the meets as i for one will be more than happy to point out exactly what his problem is...
Now i suggest he f@cks off and leaves this forum to people who genuinely are interested in debate or need help, along with any of you others who wish to drag up the (romantic, actually usually bollox) versions of the past.
I'm saying no more.
But what is the point of him doing all this then? When he emailed me i was suprised as with the names of people that he included! oh im confused!
edited for spelling
>> Edited by little RZD on Wednesday 15th February 17:39
Nice friendly language uhhhhh? John Smith or whoever must have got your cage rattled then?
Obviously there is no love lost between W fans and the Ph fans but perhaps if you delved into the history you may start to understand why. It is obvious by some of the threads on here many do not have a clue about the past history, or even the cars that Ginetta made! As your nickname suggests you are naturally a devoted follower of the latter, so can you answer this, or at least give it some thought.
With the remarkable history that this marque has, no matter what you read regarding how the current company 'sells' its products it ALWAYS refers to the PAST (ie the Walklett era) to assist its promotion. I don't blame them. But WHY did the present company resurrect the designation G20? The Walklett brothers' model designations are part of their rightful history and the marque's rightful history, the designation G20 was reserved for their proposed Formula 1 racing car - it was not a pipe dream, it was only £ cost that prevented it being completed, their links with BRM and the 3-litre V12 were all in progress. Ginetta model designations have always been continuous, that is until 'modern' Ginetta. This is not to say that a new owner can't do what he likes, but that history was sacrosact.
So why was the 'current' G20 designated so? History is vitally important. Why try and rewrite it? Nobody can seem to answer this question... or doesn't want to!
For that part, why not have called it the G13? (this Ginetta designation was never used because of the superstition surrounding the number).
Obviously there is no love lost between W fans and the Ph fans but perhaps if you delved into the history you may start to understand why. It is obvious by some of the threads on here many do not have a clue about the past history, or even the cars that Ginetta made! As your nickname suggests you are naturally a devoted follower of the latter, so can you answer this, or at least give it some thought.
With the remarkable history that this marque has, no matter what you read regarding how the current company 'sells' its products it ALWAYS refers to the PAST (ie the Walklett era) to assist its promotion. I don't blame them. But WHY did the present company resurrect the designation G20? The Walklett brothers' model designations are part of their rightful history and the marque's rightful history, the designation G20 was reserved for their proposed Formula 1 racing car - it was not a pipe dream, it was only £ cost that prevented it being completed, their links with BRM and the 3-litre V12 were all in progress. Ginetta model designations have always been continuous, that is until 'modern' Ginetta. This is not to say that a new owner can't do what he likes, but that history was sacrosact.
So why was the 'current' G20 designated so? History is vitally important. Why try and rewrite it? Nobody can seem to answer this question... or doesn't want to!
For that part, why not have called it the G13? (this Ginetta designation was never used because of the superstition surrounding the number).
Seems that you've already answered most of you're own questions which tends to suggest you understand exactly what went on but dont really want to believe it.
I agree its a shame that Ginetta chose to use the G20 designation but I've heard Martins explanation and, while not agreeing with his logic, I accept that it was his company and he could do as he felt fit. As for not using G13 it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that even mildly superstitious people would avoid it like the plague.
Similarly using Ginettas history as a marketing tool should be no surprise, it happens everyday when businesses change hands, you pay a bit extra for the goodwill.
As for your comments about the G20 F1 car not happening only because of the cost, any company not achieving its highest goals could use the same excuse. I'd have one of every model of Ginetta still in existence if only I could afford it. The reality of the situation is that Martin has rebuilt the company over the past 15 years (more so the last 5) into a concern that serious motorsport people want to invest in. So Ginetta may yet compete at the highest level in international motorsport. Would you be happy then?
I agree its a shame that Ginetta chose to use the G20 designation but I've heard Martins explanation and, while not agreeing with his logic, I accept that it was his company and he could do as he felt fit. As for not using G13 it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out that even mildly superstitious people would avoid it like the plague.
Similarly using Ginettas history as a marketing tool should be no surprise, it happens everyday when businesses change hands, you pay a bit extra for the goodwill.
As for your comments about the G20 F1 car not happening only because of the cost, any company not achieving its highest goals could use the same excuse. I'd have one of every model of Ginetta still in existence if only I could afford it. The reality of the situation is that Martin has rebuilt the company over the past 15 years (more so the last 5) into a concern that serious motorsport people want to invest in. So Ginetta may yet compete at the highest level in international motorsport. Would you be happy then?
Calm down, calm down! It is only car! However Bob Walklett once wrote a letter to the Times about the Rover mess (created at that time by the sale of Rover to Towers and friends for £10), and in that letter Bob mentioned £900 govmt sub on each MGB sold. This was direct unfair competition for the more advanced G21. Infact it could be argued that Ginetta were one of the largest independent car companies in the UK. The only real reason why Bob sold the company was because he was concerned about Douglas Walklett's heath. Bob and the family were also very concerned about the employees of Ginetta. I have met many ex-Ginetta employees who remember Ginetta as a good place to work. I would like to meet an employee that would say the same things about the period 1990 to 2005; but alas I have yet to meet one!
What confuises me is that the recent raft of posters here it would appear prefer the idea of the Ginetta name ceasing to exist rather than continuing in its pretty enviable form at the time.
As has been mentioned, when Ginetta was set up, it was easier to manufacture cars on a smaller scale. We had God knows how many brands in the UK, which all converged into the ashes of Phoenix. Anybody still going has done a good job.
I'm not sure what the problem is. Would people prefer that the company had died in the 80's / 90's when the Walketts left. Would they prefer it to have gone under in the late 90's and be no more? It appears that the name, at the front of National racing today (Which is what Ivor wanted if not Bob) is tainted in some way.
At the end of the day Bob sold out to the only bidder. Ford wasn't coming knocking, or was Mercedes or anyone from the far east. He had one offer and took it. Bob let the name live - and now many want to rubbish that name. Doesn't really make sense.
The cars, even without much development, still aren't crap. The present race cars (which are road cars without a passenger seat) are quicker than an F360 around Brands Hatch GP (yes, we've tried it). I'll acnowlege that there is a difference in comfort levels between the two, but that is still a fantastic achievement for a car with a 1.8 Zetec up front - and most probably something that none of the earlier cars could manage out of the box - even though they sold for much greater (relative) money.
I would have thought that that would be something to be proud of.
One final point, without the continuing manufacture of the cars over the past 15 years, and the race car success, nobody would care less what a G4 was now. Instead it is on GT4 - which is bringing the car back to the youth. Remember who got it there - (Sony sponsor not only the Juniors, but a car in the senior category).
Just remember that everything was better in the olden days. My grandparents miss getting bombed and living on powdered eggs.
As has been mentioned, when Ginetta was set up, it was easier to manufacture cars on a smaller scale. We had God knows how many brands in the UK, which all converged into the ashes of Phoenix. Anybody still going has done a good job.
I'm not sure what the problem is. Would people prefer that the company had died in the 80's / 90's when the Walketts left. Would they prefer it to have gone under in the late 90's and be no more? It appears that the name, at the front of National racing today (Which is what Ivor wanted if not Bob) is tainted in some way.
At the end of the day Bob sold out to the only bidder. Ford wasn't coming knocking, or was Mercedes or anyone from the far east. He had one offer and took it. Bob let the name live - and now many want to rubbish that name. Doesn't really make sense.
The cars, even without much development, still aren't crap. The present race cars (which are road cars without a passenger seat) are quicker than an F360 around Brands Hatch GP (yes, we've tried it). I'll acnowlege that there is a difference in comfort levels between the two, but that is still a fantastic achievement for a car with a 1.8 Zetec up front - and most probably something that none of the earlier cars could manage out of the box - even though they sold for much greater (relative) money.
I would have thought that that would be something to be proud of.
One final point, without the continuing manufacture of the cars over the past 15 years, and the race car success, nobody would care less what a G4 was now. Instead it is on GT4 - which is bringing the car back to the youth. Remember who got it there - (Sony sponsor not only the Juniors, but a car in the senior category).
Just remember that everything was better in the olden days. My grandparents miss getting bombed and living on powdered eggs.
Couldn't agree with daydreamer more.
I do find this whole business of only real Ginetta's being pre-Phaff very tiresome. It was the main reason why I couldn't be bothered tyo renew my membership with the GOC the other year. Which thankfully when rejoining, found that some of the commitee
had woken up and realised that (I assume) the potential new members don't give a sh*t whether its pre or post Mr Phaffs MD status.What I believe they care about is 'Ginetta'. The people who keep banging on about the 'good old days' just appear to be very sad. The reason I am building a '20 is because I fell in love with the G4 and wanted one I could afford - the modern 'equivqlent'
Now we all know that toweringbeagle has his own hidden agenda,
but I do think now he has kicked alot of life into Ginetta cyberspace its time to come up new ideas rather than keep respinning the same old stuff. Don't forget if you care for Ginetta cars at all, the only place that none GOC members can see this is here (which is wrong!!) and all it does is make Ginetta owners old and new look like a load of tossers.
I do find this whole business of only real Ginetta's being pre-Phaff very tiresome. It was the main reason why I couldn't be bothered tyo renew my membership with the GOC the other year. Which thankfully when rejoining, found that some of the commitee
had woken up and realised that (I assume) the potential new members don't give a sh*t whether its pre or post Mr Phaffs MD status.What I believe they care about is 'Ginetta'. The people who keep banging on about the 'good old days' just appear to be very sad. The reason I am building a '20 is because I fell in love with the G4 and wanted one I could afford - the modern 'equivqlent'
Now we all know that toweringbeagle has his own hidden agenda,
but I do think now he has kicked alot of life into Ginetta cyberspace its time to come up new ideas rather than keep respinning the same old stuff. Don't forget if you care for Ginetta cars at all, the only place that none GOC members can see this is here (which is wrong!!) and all it does is make Ginetta owners old and new look like a load of tossers.
I think Ginetta is now in better hands than it has been for the last 15! The company can now move on from the experience. The GOC membership secretary is Duncan Campbell and he worked for Ginetta until 1997. Duncan is well qualified to comment as he worked in 4 different factories and both regimes. People on this site have moved to comment on the Phoenix Four; however the way Ginetta was run after Bob sold it was very similar. Now with LNT at the helm; things will change!
>> Edited by toweringeagle on Thursday 16th February 12:48
>> Edited by toweringeagle on Thursday 16th February 12:48
you've got to stop this toweringeagle, or you are going to land yourself in trouble. Not with me, this is not a threat, i'm merely pointing out that several of your posts are now claiming to post other peoples opinions, at least two of which i know to be untrue. Do the people you refer to know you are posting these things, and if so are they willing to publically back these 'accusations' up?
jamesg20 said:
you've got to stop this toweringeagle, or you are going to land yourself in trouble. Not with me, this is not a threat, i'm merely pointing out that several of your posts are now claiming to post other peoples opinions, at least two of which i know to be untrue. Do the people you refer to know you are posting these things, and if so are they willing to publically back these 'accusations' up?
The last 15 years is well documented!
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/650
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