The Future with LNT
Discussion
Hi again Map - this is a difficult one. Martin's role has changed - while previously he was accountable to the other shareholders of Ginetta Cars Ltd, I am assuming that Lawrence now owns the company and is paying Martin's salary as Managing Director (although this is pure conjecture - I have no idea what Martin's contractual arrangements are).
If it is a conventional Owner/Chairman to Managing Director relationship, then I would expect that Martin will have a budget to work to and that the LNT Group will have a financial plan for Ginetta Cars Ltd that will include projections on the level of profit (or loss) that Martin will be expected to deliver into the LNT Group as Managing Director of Ginettas Cars Ltd.
If it is a conventional Owner/Chairman to Managing Director relationship, then I would expect that Martin will have a budget to work to and that the LNT Group will have a financial plan for Ginetta Cars Ltd that will include projections on the level of profit (or loss) that Martin will be expected to deliver into the LNT Group as Managing Director of Ginettas Cars Ltd.
Just a thought, the LNT group maybe, invested into the wrong companie/people. Ginetta/Phaff have never made a new product, the G20 styled by an outside individual was based on G27 thinking. There is nobody who can do original creative thought to take ginetta forward. To be fair, the Essex gang (DARE) can still create exiting new models and appeared to be doing so. Just a thought...
Ah well, I was wondering how long it would take before someone posted something about what the great things the Walkletts are doing, and then someone in the 'other camp' objected to the sentiments.
Why don't we all face facts - Martin is doing a great job doing what he is good at, which is essentially media work and marketing, and in the process he has created a race series the like of which I doubt the Walkletts are capable of - and good on him for that.
What Martin does not have is a flair for creative design and, if he is going to develop new models he will need to buy these skills in - that will be expensive, and will eat into his profit margins.
As for Dare - well, anyone who knows the Walkletts will know that they are what I would regard as 'quietly eccentric' - they are not great on organisation outside their own area of expertise, but they do have shedloads of imagination and creative flair when it comes to designing new cars. I for one look forward to seeing the two new models that are mentioned on the G12 thread - and please, you G20 fans, don't condemn them before you have seen the evidence.
As for the Richmond Racing G20R, apart from the door hinges (which look clumsy to my eyes) and the rear wing supports( which look like they are rather temporary and done in a hurray for the pictures), I personally think it looks great, and they can let me drive one any time they like. What Richmond do have is a rich GT racing heritage to live up to - I know it was a different time, but the G10 won 'straight out of the box' and at one point I believe the G12 held the GT lap record at every track in the UK, and was 'the car to have' until the Chevrons arrived.
Let's just keep this as a polite and potentially constructive exchange of opinions, without the public slanging - if you can't do that, then stay away.
Why don't we all face facts - Martin is doing a great job doing what he is good at, which is essentially media work and marketing, and in the process he has created a race series the like of which I doubt the Walkletts are capable of - and good on him for that.
What Martin does not have is a flair for creative design and, if he is going to develop new models he will need to buy these skills in - that will be expensive, and will eat into his profit margins.
As for Dare - well, anyone who knows the Walkletts will know that they are what I would regard as 'quietly eccentric' - they are not great on organisation outside their own area of expertise, but they do have shedloads of imagination and creative flair when it comes to designing new cars. I for one look forward to seeing the two new models that are mentioned on the G12 thread - and please, you G20 fans, don't condemn them before you have seen the evidence.
As for the Richmond Racing G20R, apart from the door hinges (which look clumsy to my eyes) and the rear wing supports( which look like they are rather temporary and done in a hurray for the pictures), I personally think it looks great, and they can let me drive one any time they like. What Richmond do have is a rich GT racing heritage to live up to - I know it was a different time, but the G10 won 'straight out of the box' and at one point I believe the G12 held the GT lap record at every track in the UK, and was 'the car to have' until the Chevrons arrived.
Let's just keep this as a polite and potentially constructive exchange of opinions, without the public slanging - if you can't do that, then stay away.
Just a thought - perhaps LNT should consider buying Dare (and also the G4 and G12 manufacturing company). That way, the Ginetta 'intellectual property' would all be back in the one place, and the creative flair that is Dare Engineering could be blended with the organisational skills that is Ginetta Cars limited - the marriage supported by the obvious LNT business acumen and strong financial base?
As I said - it was just a thought.....
As I said - it was just a thought.....
Just a thought, some out there are thinking too much!!!! Only really wondered what might be happening for the 50th but dismaid that one can't have a constructive thought without it being (poo-pooed) and being banded into a particular camp. Don't know the history of all of this chat but if my thoughts have been written before then maybe there is something in it.
'other camp' - hey? The only 'camp' I have ever sat in is 'Ginetta' old and new. Clearly I have interests in modern Ginetta - I buy parts for a start. But I like to think that I probably speak for many modern Ginetta folk (G20 owners) that the only them and us camps are created by folk that hold a "I dislike Phaff" opinion. When I first got actively involved with the Ginetta 'brotherhood' 4 or 5 years ago I was told about 'the attitude' and thought it rather pathetic, real shame it persists. The reason I brought my Ginetta was that the name and the look of the cars I saw racing at UK circuits in the late 70's early 80's as a lad - G4's and 12's, left a lasting positive impression on me.
Public slanging match - yes perhaps it was a moment of weakness, that I lowered myself to responding, to an obviously provocative comment, but I am really bored with seeing it.
As for condemming Dare, exactly how many "G20 fans" have/do - please correct me if I am wrong but have any felt it necessary? Sounds very exciting news about Dare - I do look forward to seeing what they are doing.
Seems like we all need to have a pop at the Ginetta and Dare websites, as both are out of date and need something of a shake up (and don't take that the wrong way, I ain't being sarcastic).
Yep, I agree rant over, lets get back to sensible debate.
Public slanging match - yes perhaps it was a moment of weakness, that I lowered myself to responding, to an obviously provocative comment, but I am really bored with seeing it.
As for condemming Dare, exactly how many "G20 fans" have/do - please correct me if I am wrong but have any felt it necessary? Sounds very exciting news about Dare - I do look forward to seeing what they are doing.
Seems like we all need to have a pop at the Ginetta and Dare websites, as both are out of date and need something of a shake up (and don't take that the wrong way, I ain't being sarcastic).
Yep, I agree rant over, lets get back to sensible debate.
If you are unaware of it 'the winner' read through the forum of late. We are not having this arguement again, and i'm afraid posting comments - however well meant or in the interest of debate - like yours above, in light of what has gone on in here recently is only going to get peoples backs up, and for very good reason too.
Its a case of the idiot spoiling it for the many i'm afraid, please lets move on.
Its a case of the idiot spoiling it for the many i'm afraid, please lets move on.
"Modern" Ginetta have shown that they can make brilliant cars - at least in my humble opinion. The G20 is beautiful and has a fantastic chassis which shows it's historic, though evolved, heritage through the many Ginettas that came before it. (The chassis design and manufacture are, perhaps, the most consistent thread throughout the marque's history!)
I believe that LNT are committed to continuing the success of the race series (be it G20, Juniors and/or the next model to bear the name) but I am not so sure that they see a future in building road cars. Other threads on this forum recently have highlighted the difficulties faced by smaller car manufacturers in gaining type approval (or even SVA) and, perhaps more importantly, LNT are primarily a racing outfit.
I do not believe that Dare have the resources or the inclination to step up production of G4 or G12 variantsto a sustainable level of output to carry on the story (I may be wrong here - I'm sure someone will put me right if I am!) And in any case, they are not Ginetta and do not own the name - if they do create a new model, it will not be a Ginetta.
I'm afraid I do not see a very optimistic future for Ginetta road cars. I hope I am wrong.
I believe that LNT are committed to continuing the success of the race series (be it G20, Juniors and/or the next model to bear the name) but I am not so sure that they see a future in building road cars. Other threads on this forum recently have highlighted the difficulties faced by smaller car manufacturers in gaining type approval (or even SVA) and, perhaps more importantly, LNT are primarily a racing outfit.
I do not believe that Dare have the resources or the inclination to step up production of G4 or G12 variantsto a sustainable level of output to carry on the story (I may be wrong here - I'm sure someone will put me right if I am!) And in any case, they are not Ginetta and do not own the name - if they do create a new model, it will not be a Ginetta.
I'm afraid I do not see a very optimistic future for Ginetta road cars. I hope I am wrong.
The rights to the Ginetta G4 and Ginetta G12 (the 'intellectual property') were originally bought by the Japanese concern - I am not sure if Dare actually own the rights or are they manufacturing (should that read were manufacturung...) cars under licence from the owner of those rights?
Another interesting rumour that, if true, links the G4 and G20 ever-closer together - it has been suggested that Dare outsourced the G4 chassis fabrication to the same concern that builds G20 chassis for Martin, and that they both come off the same jig...
Another interesting rumour that, if true, links the G4 and G20 ever-closer together - it has been suggested that Dare outsourced the G4 chassis fabrication to the same concern that builds G20 chassis for Martin, and that they both come off the same jig...
As I said above:
Maybe people should realise why there is really just one "Ginetta" that incorporates all Ginettas , new and old. There is a single consistent element that has run through the marque's history (Walkletts, Phaff & Dare) that stems from what is hidden underneath the bodywork.
These cars are all legendary because of their chassis. They are all different but one element unites them together to this day. That is where the heart of the marque really beats.
map said:
The chassis design and manufacture are, perhaps, the most consistent thread throughout the marque's history!
Maybe people should realise why there is really just one "Ginetta" that incorporates all Ginettas , new and old. There is a single consistent element that has run through the marque's history (Walkletts, Phaff & Dare) that stems from what is hidden underneath the bodywork.
These cars are all legendary because of their chassis. They are all different but one element unites them together to this day. That is where the heart of the marque really beats.
[I'm afraid I do not see a very optimistic future for Ginetta road cars. I hope I am wrong.] - I hope you are wrong map.
As I guess we all know, at the end of the day it depends on what is profitable for 'Mr T' and his business. But I'm sure if they made an effort on the marketting and backed it up with a decent supply of parts, they could relatively easily get some more G20s on the road - there seems to be no shortage of publicity for Fisher Fury's, and not just in the Kit car mags, but more 'mainstream/general' car mags. With such a strong race series there is alot of positive publicity there to be harnessed.
That said, I suspect that the '20 in its current form will only appeal to those who either 'just want a Ginetta', or purely a 'back lane blaster/track day car'.
Martin P has already stated that he wants to make the '20 more 'road friendly' and there is the talk of a new car (G40?)- that so far as I know was 'just' awaiting some capital and development effort - hopefully things that Martin has now got the opportunity to address.
As I guess we all know, at the end of the day it depends on what is profitable for 'Mr T' and his business. But I'm sure if they made an effort on the marketting and backed it up with a decent supply of parts, they could relatively easily get some more G20s on the road - there seems to be no shortage of publicity for Fisher Fury's, and not just in the Kit car mags, but more 'mainstream/general' car mags. With such a strong race series there is alot of positive publicity there to be harnessed.
That said, I suspect that the '20 in its current form will only appeal to those who either 'just want a Ginetta', or purely a 'back lane blaster/track day car'.
Martin P has already stated that he wants to make the '20 more 'road friendly' and there is the talk of a new car (G40?)- that so far as I know was 'just' awaiting some capital and development effort - hopefully things that Martin has now got the opportunity to address.
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