Ford Focus ST ecu remapping
Discussion
Simmo_J said:
theponce said:
don kalmar union said:
The other question to be asked by prospective buyers of software for either brand is 'how do you effect the software change?'; through the OBD socket, by plugging directly into the ECU, or by opening the ECU and removing the 'chip'. The answer to this question will tell exactly how much expertise and knowledge your prospective supplier really has in relation to current ECU technology.
Well, this shows your lack of understanding!!! There is no chip on this ECU to remove in the old fashion sense. This ECU is programmed via the OBD2 port. Also, although the software is different on the Ford, it can still be copied (using the correct tools) and compared to and original file, so your suggestion that these copy claims are weak, are themselves weak and yet again due to a lack of knowledge and understanding.Done by a company that promote OBD2 only programming and the invisibility of the tuning that has taken place.
Nice picture of a non soldered chip uploaded via OBD2..... NOT
theponce said:
damian s said:
interesting. so do you think we will be seeing an influx of STs with melted pistons in the future? with owners trying to squeeze too much out of them.
No, highly unlikely, and certainly not if tuned properly. The ECU is also very good at protecting the engine.And this engine here was obviously tuned real well by the guys at RICA UK, and here's the evidence!
theponce said:
All of you with Superchips on your ST225 probably have an early version of RICA software, which is no surprise since RICA are the gurus of Volvo tuning. This also suggests that superchips don't actually understand how to tune cars, which is why they have to resort to copying.
Guru's with full pistons unlike their customers! It would suggest the "Guru's" at the UK arm of RICA haven't got the foggiest either on how to do a custom job!Edited by Simmo_J on Thursday 30th August 00:04
kertrish said:
To tune an ME9 ECU you either have to bench flash or flash via OBD2. I don't think it's possible to do a chip change on the new ST225.
I think you didn't quite read my post aboveEdited by Simmo_J on Thursday 30th August 00:10
I've seen lots of engines like that, and in the majority of cases it's nothing to do with the various tuners who had mapped them. Has the owner actually had the engine examined properly? Or is he simply blaming it on the tuner? Is he 100% sure there wasn't a problem with the melted piston to start with? Did he examine the engine before the custom tuning? Does he actually know what caused it, or is he just speculating?
kertrish said:
?
Oh I apologise, I just assumed that you'd joined today... and your only posts were on this and another related thread........Cynical old me for assuming you were the tuner in question Adam Webber of Volvo Tuning / VT / RICA UK / HLM Chiptuning / Chiptuning UK Ltd or whichever of the numerous company names or aliases you are being this month.
Recorded for posterity....
Adam Webber of Volvotuning said:
Hi Dicky,
If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Adam.
If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Adam.
Edited by Simmo_J on Friday 31st August 23:53
Edited by Simmo_J on Saturday 1st September 01:01
Engines can suffer a catastrophic failure for many reasons. More often than not several factors have a knock on effect where one particular problem will give rise to another problem and so on until a failure occurs. Clues as to the exact cause of failure can be found if the engine is properly examined. It is similar to forensic analysis where the cause of death can be established through a detailed and thorough expert examination.
Edited by kertrish on Thursday 30th August 01:17
hello, theponce is here! 
and he brings with him an interesting thread, especially page 6 post number 105 by Don Norchi:
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic...
SimmoJ, looks to me like a similar scenario!
and he brings with him an interesting thread, especially page 6 post number 105 by Don Norchi:
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic...
SimmoJ, looks to me like a similar scenario!
Edited by theponce on Thursday 30th August 02:14
kertrish said:
Engines can suffer a catastrophic failure for many reasons. More often than not several factors have a knock on effect where one particular problem will give rise to another problem and so on until a failure occurs. Clues as to the exact cause of failure can be found if the engine is properly examined. It is similar to forensic analysis where the cause of death can be established through a detailed and thorough expert examination.
Probably the evidence here is in the fact that the owner of that engine was handed a dyno plot by yourselves displaying an AFR of close on 15:1 whilst running a boost of 1.4 bar. So no detective work was required, the plot showed the error. Edited by kertrish on Thursday 30th August 01:17
Quite simply the engine leaned out and detonation occured blowing the No3 piston to bits.
As your partner theponce said; The ME7 does a good job of protecting the engine from bad tuning. It was just a shame that this paticular engine was on a Motronic 4.4. One of the other cars fitted with the same tune was on an ME7 and I understand that the owner of that car had issues with the ME7 pulling back boost to protect the engine due to poor mapping. Rumour has it that this user has now had the car you custom tuned for him re-mapped through Don and is much happier with the result.
So all this talk of expert tuning by yourselves and your RICA dealership seems to be coming back and biting you on the butt.
Personally I Will not be getting any similar tuning on the ST.
Regards.
Dicky.
Hi Dicky,
If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Click the image to enlarge:
Adam.
If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Click the image to enlarge:
Adam.
Edited by adamweber on Thursday 30th August 08:11
I am not Hamish by the way. But I do know Hamish well, and he happens to be highly respected in the tuning community. He's also got the sense not to come onto this forum and get involved in this rubbish, something which should be commended and respected.
It's very easy for some people to hide behind a computer and make all sorts of accusations about individuals. So on this note I have decided not to post on this forum anymore and spend some quality time back in the real world where people are people. Bye.
It's very easy for some people to hide behind a computer and make all sorts of accusations about individuals. So on this note I have decided not to post on this forum anymore and spend some quality time back in the real world where people are people. Bye.
theponce said:
I am not Hamish by the way. But I do know Hamish well, and he happens to be highly respected in the tuning community. He's also got the sense not to come onto this forum and get involved in this rubbish, something which should be commended and respected.
It's very easy for some people to hide behind a computer and make all sorts of accusations about individuals. So on this note I have decided not to post on this forum anymore and spend some quality time back in the real world where people are people. Bye.
Rumbled!It's very easy for some people to hide behind a computer and make all sorts of accusations about individuals. So on this note I have decided not to post on this forum anymore and spend some quality time back in the real world where people are people. Bye.
Bye!
adamweber said:
Hi Dicky,
If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Click the image to enlarge:
Adam.
The Focusstoc says the ST's run rich, and that they do so to help ensure engine longevity...If you are worried about tuning an ST because of lean running, I wouldn't recommend you buy one in the first place because they run very lean as standard. They run at about lambda 1.0 (AFR 14.7:1) from 1000 rpm right through to almost 6000 rpm and only then does it richen up. Same for the Volvo. It's how a lot of modern turbo engines are tuned by the manufacturers.
Click the image to enlarge:
Adam.
Edited by adamweber on Thursday 30th August 08:11
Well well well. It looks like our dynamic duo from Chip tuning (theponce and kertrish) have been up to their undercover antics again over on one of the Volvo sites.
http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=631&...
This time it's Adam mascarading as fatman. attempting to distance RICA from Chip Tunings blowups.
Why can't they appear as themselves and be honest? Is their reputation so bad?
In this case the site admin has traced the suspicious user back to ChipTunings IP Address and outed him as Adam Weber Director of Chip Tuning.
The thread has Adam admitting that his maps are "not Ideal" and that there is no wonder their customers are going elsewhere.
When confronted by admin he pretends to be another user "borrowing" Adams Computer and e-mail address. in an equally pathetic attempt to "run and hide"
http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=631&...
This time it's Adam mascarading as fatman. attempting to distance RICA from Chip Tunings blowups.
Why can't they appear as themselves and be honest? Is their reputation so bad?
In this case the site admin has traced the suspicious user back to ChipTunings IP Address and outed him as Adam Weber Director of Chip Tuning.
The thread has Adam admitting that his maps are "not Ideal" and that there is no wonder their customers are going elsewhere.
When confronted by admin he pretends to be another user "borrowing" Adams Computer and e-mail address. in an equally pathetic attempt to "run and hide"
Edited by Dick_Dastardly on Tuesday 18th September 03:46
And it only gets worse!
Volvo Tuning (aka Chiptuning Ltd) are clearly not the experts they (and the vpcuk forum) made themselves out to be
http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=961&...
Volvo Tuning (aka Chiptuning Ltd) are clearly not the experts they (and the vpcuk forum) made themselves out to be
http://forums.t5d5.org/index.php?showtopic=961&...
And the story of theponce and kertrish comes to a sticky end.
Kertrish has left theponce and gone to do other things
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=449...
And the chaps in The Netherlands at RICA have realised what's been going on, and have pulled the UK RICA dealership from Chip Tuning Ltd
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=457...
Meanwhile. theponce is in denial. and has an identity crisis.
http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showpost.php?p=250718&...
Kertrish has left theponce and gone to do other things
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=449...
And the chaps in The Netherlands at RICA have realised what's been going on, and have pulled the UK RICA dealership from Chip Tuning Ltd
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=457...
Meanwhile. theponce is in denial. and has an identity crisis.
http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showpost.php?p=250718&...
I am in no way connected with the people above, but having blown up 2 tuned engines myself I have some experience ... here is my take on things.
It is all too easy to blame the tuner. There are many factors that can contribute to engine failure, but these are only exagerated by a higher state of tune.
sensors: if any of the sensors are not performing to spec then this can lead to engine failure. The second time my engine died, after much thought and examination of the broken parts, the most likely cause was a knackered MAP sensor which was too slow in responding to changes in boost, thus the AF was too lean for a short period when it came on boost. Repeated short spurts of detonation eventually killed it.
Boost spikes: no matter what boost control you have, there will always be boost spikes. on a rolling road print out these arent as high as they can be in real world driving. taking the engine slowly up through the entire rev range will not produce a spike anywhere near as large as one generated by planting it at 5krpm. The fuel system may not be able to supply the required fuel at the peak of the spike, thus leading to momentary detonation.
This problem is only made a whole lot worse when the boost is increased via a remap. the higher the boost, the bigger the spike. Tuners may well think that the boost level is within the limits of the fuel system. but do they allow for big boost spikes? probably not.
engine cooling: More power means higher engine temps, including in the combustion chamber. If the engine temps are not kept in check then this alone will increase the chance of detonation. So you have an intercooler rad, and an aircon rad sitting in front of the engine coolant rad. is the cooling system going to perform adequately with this setup? probably not.
Charge cooling: is the stock intercooler good enough to cope with the increased boost? possibly not on a hot day or when the intercooler is heatsoaked from being stuck in traffic. hotter charge temps means a high chance of detonation under higher levels of boost.
perhaps the solution is to fit a far more efficient intercooler? yes and no. it may solve the problems for hot weather, but when the ambient temps are low will the intercooler be cooling the charge so effectively that the fuel system can no longer keep up with the demand for more fuel?
General engine condition: having been bitten by this I would never tune an engine that has done loads of miles. General wear and tear will have significantly affected the tollerance of many components, on which the remap may not be suitable. You cant blame the tuners for not knowing the engine isnt up to it. The most they can do (and probably should) is perform a compression / leakdown test on all the cylinders but I bet they dont. Its simply not possibly on some cars without taking them to bits.
Common sense prevails here. dont book your car in for a remap if its got 110,000 miles on the clock. You are going to kill it. period!
It is all too easy to blame the tuner. There are many factors that can contribute to engine failure, but these are only exagerated by a higher state of tune.
sensors: if any of the sensors are not performing to spec then this can lead to engine failure. The second time my engine died, after much thought and examination of the broken parts, the most likely cause was a knackered MAP sensor which was too slow in responding to changes in boost, thus the AF was too lean for a short period when it came on boost. Repeated short spurts of detonation eventually killed it.
Boost spikes: no matter what boost control you have, there will always be boost spikes. on a rolling road print out these arent as high as they can be in real world driving. taking the engine slowly up through the entire rev range will not produce a spike anywhere near as large as one generated by planting it at 5krpm. The fuel system may not be able to supply the required fuel at the peak of the spike, thus leading to momentary detonation.
This problem is only made a whole lot worse when the boost is increased via a remap. the higher the boost, the bigger the spike. Tuners may well think that the boost level is within the limits of the fuel system. but do they allow for big boost spikes? probably not.
engine cooling: More power means higher engine temps, including in the combustion chamber. If the engine temps are not kept in check then this alone will increase the chance of detonation. So you have an intercooler rad, and an aircon rad sitting in front of the engine coolant rad. is the cooling system going to perform adequately with this setup? probably not.
Charge cooling: is the stock intercooler good enough to cope with the increased boost? possibly not on a hot day or when the intercooler is heatsoaked from being stuck in traffic. hotter charge temps means a high chance of detonation under higher levels of boost.
perhaps the solution is to fit a far more efficient intercooler? yes and no. it may solve the problems for hot weather, but when the ambient temps are low will the intercooler be cooling the charge so effectively that the fuel system can no longer keep up with the demand for more fuel?
General engine condition: having been bitten by this I would never tune an engine that has done loads of miles. General wear and tear will have significantly affected the tollerance of many components, on which the remap may not be suitable. You cant blame the tuners for not knowing the engine isnt up to it. The most they can do (and probably should) is perform a compression / leakdown test on all the cylinders but I bet they dont. Its simply not possibly on some cars without taking them to bits.
Common sense prevails here. dont book your car in for a remap if its got 110,000 miles on the clock. You are going to kill it. period!
Gassing Station | Ford | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff