New TVR Tuscan Price
Discussion
That's the whole point of it, though - even if you priced then at £50K, you would not likely sell more than a few TVRs. It would probably be harder work selling them to people coming out of Beemers and Audi TTs than to people who are willing to spend £100K on something bespoke - probably choosing between a TVR, a rebuilt Interceptor or somthing to go historic racing with (or a yacht, or whatever...).
Reality is that there won't likely ever be a TVR 'factory' churning out cars in some sort of production line environment. For the marque to thrive, it's not necessary anyway. Donkervoort happily build their 30-50 vehicles a year, organises one make race series, sells upgrades, young Ms Donkervoort organises and sells incentives (driving courses, trips, track events etc) and they bag the odd column inch in the mags here and there. That's a realistic and sustainable scale of operations - in TVRs case helped by a comparatively huge existing vehicle park.
You need new cars to keep interest in the brand, but the money is in aftersales and aftermarket activities.
Reality is that there won't likely ever be a TVR 'factory' churning out cars in some sort of production line environment. For the marque to thrive, it's not necessary anyway. Donkervoort happily build their 30-50 vehicles a year, organises one make race series, sells upgrades, young Ms Donkervoort organises and sells incentives (driving courses, trips, track events etc) and they bag the odd column inch in the mags here and there. That's a realistic and sustainable scale of operations - in TVRs case helped by a comparatively huge existing vehicle park.
You need new cars to keep interest in the brand, but the money is in aftersales and aftermarket activities.
900T-R said:
That's the whole point of it, though - even if you priced then at £50K, you would not likely sell more than a few TVRs. It would probably be harder work selling them to people coming out of Beemers and Audi TTs than to people who are willing to spend £100K on something bespoke - probably choosing between a TVR, a rebuilt Interceptor or somthing to go historic racing with (or a yacht, or whatever...).
Reality is that there won't likely ever be a TVR 'factory' churning out cars in some sort of production line environment. For the marque to thrive, it's not necessary anyway. Donkervoort happily build their 30-50 vehicles a year, organises one make race series, sells upgrades, young Ms Donkervoort organises and sells incentives (driving courses, trips, track events etc) and they bag the odd column inch in the mags here and there. That's a realistic and sustainable scale of operations - in TVRs case helped by a comparatively huge existing vehicle park.
You need new cars to keep interest in the brand, but the money is in aftersales and aftermarket activities.
I tend to agree.Reality is that there won't likely ever be a TVR 'factory' churning out cars in some sort of production line environment. For the marque to thrive, it's not necessary anyway. Donkervoort happily build their 30-50 vehicles a year, organises one make race series, sells upgrades, young Ms Donkervoort organises and sells incentives (driving courses, trips, track events etc) and they bag the odd column inch in the mags here and there. That's a realistic and sustainable scale of operations - in TVRs case helped by a comparatively huge existing vehicle park.
You need new cars to keep interest in the brand, but the money is in aftersales and aftermarket activities.
There are clues in the website. All new cars priced the same regardless of model would possibly suggest they were only expecting new demand for a specific model, maybe the Sag?
This could be linked to one of Dom's many desires which was to build a bunch of LS Sags for a racing series.
It could be that it is the Sag they expect some volume from.
Although, I aslo suspect the website is suggesting that the real business is to be refurbing old cars and sticking a new badge on them as those prices seem fair enough and Power almost certainly have the skills to refurb and re-kit existing cars.
My guess is that unless their is some kind of race series then the new build element of the website is a red herring and the business model is based around re-furbs of which I can see them having enough demand to be a viable sub-business.
Have Power now got their own bodyshop - surely the 'new' bodies and the chassis side of things is going to be very hard? I thought that the bodyshop was owned by the chap who built the first couple of Smolensky body tweaked cars (black T350?) and that Power dont actually have their own body shop as such?
Anyway - surely to focus on a 'Mk3' Tuscan and Sag would be better than offering new models that actually started back in the early 90s?
Anyway - surely to focus on a 'Mk3' Tuscan and Sag would be better than offering new models that actually started back in the early 90s?
Gazzab said:
Have Power now got their own bodyshop - surely the 'new' bodies and the chassis side of things is going to be very hard? I thought that the bodyshop was owned by the chap who built the first couple of Smolensky body tweaked cars (black T350?) and that Power dont actually have their own body shop as such?
Anyway - surely to focus on a 'Mk3' Tuscan and Sag would be better than offering new models that actually started back in the early 90s?
TVR Power Bodyshop, AKA Central TVR in Stourbridge. Adrian there, once had one of the biggest TVR dealerships back in the heyday. Power also have the chassis jigs now (in collaboration with RT Racing I believe) to do full production of OEM chassis (mainly Chim & Griff if I recollect correctly). It was all documented in Sprint a couple of months ago. The more relevant question is whether Power will get hold of the GRP moulds, the know how and the skill base to produce cars from scratch. Anyway - surely to focus on a 'Mk3' Tuscan and Sag would be better than offering new models that actually started back in the early 90s?
As much as I enjoy my TVR Cerbera there is NO WAY I would spend £100k on a TVR. NO WAY. Is there even a test drive model available to try before parting with £100k. I think they are relying on some TVR ownwers with very deep pockets buying them, but in what kind of numbers. I would be amased if they did 10 in the first 12/18 months from now. In fact it is such a crazy idea I think I might delete this post all together as it is barely worth commenting on.!!
Aha - RT (and Power) have OEM jigs for Chim/Griff (I presume this means that they are built so as to produce chassis to the original measurements etc).
http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
Gazzab said:
Aha - RT (and Power) have OEM jigs for Chim/Griff (I presume this means that they are built so as to produce chassis to the original measurements etc).
http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
The chassis are another company. Richard Thorpe's? Just sold via Power. http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
Body shop not sure about but it is one of several shell companies like Power itself so my guess is that it is also actually someone else's business operating under a skin.
Even TvR Motors looks to be a shell registered at a generic address in Regent Street.
So my guess and it is a guess is that the brand holding company is separate from the GmbH that is on the website and Power is shell for Doms Power which looks to be the actual trading company in Coventry.
I guess you would want to be contracting with one of the corporate entities which has assets so as there is a chance of recourse should anything go wrong.
DonkeyApple said:
Gazzab said:
Aha - RT (and Power) have OEM jigs for Chim/Griff (I presume this means that they are built so as to produce chassis to the original measurements etc).
http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
The chassis are another company. Richard Thorpe's? Just sold via Power. http://www.rtracing.co.uk/content/tvr-chassis.html
RT are near me, never been there though. Must pop in and see the factory set up.
Body shop not sure about but it is one of several shell companies like Power itself so my guess is that it is also actually someone else's business operating under a skin.
Even TvR Motors looks to be a shell registered at a generic address in Regent Street.
So my guess and it is a guess is that the brand holding company is separate from the GmbH that is on the website and Power is shell for Doms Power which looks to be the actual trading company in Coventry.
I guess you would want to be contracting with one of the corporate entities which has assets so as there is a chance of recourse should anything go wrong.
So, buy in an engine from GM, a chassis from RT and a body from the ice cream guys. The trouble with building a car like this is that it will comprise about 12,000 to 15,000 parts, quite a few of which can be crossed off by the engine, and sourcing, sorting out the logistics and having experts in everything from leather to electronics is where the lost talent of Blackpool will be hard to replicate.
JR said:
FWIW, Sheffield being the home of steel does seem an appropriate place for the chassis.
.
So, junk the Red Rose engine, use a White Rose chassis, Septic engine and stick it all together in the least English part of England and tack on half a dozen lumps of profit for the various entities envolved .
JR said:
......experts in everything from leather to electronics is where the lost talent of Blackpool will be hard to replicate.
Really? I don't think you could find any better locale in the whole country for this particular automotive skillset than Coventry and the surrounding area.Blackpool was hardly reknowned as the car factory capital of the UK was it?
A.G. said:
Agreed. But only if:
A) You have a sustainable business model
B) You manage to sell sufficient volume of your new models
C) You have a customer base who has confidence in your company
Perhaps but a good start would beA) You have a sustainable business model
B) You manage to sell sufficient volume of your new models
C) You have a customer base who has confidence in your company
A) You have a business model
B) You manage to produce something to sell
C) You have a customer
A.G. said:
Yes but in the UK we have various successful Donkervoort type products.
No, you don't - you have a few purveyors of rather rudimentary, Seven-based, track-biased devices. Donkervoorts may have their roots in the Caterham Seven and still sort of look like a Seven, but evolved into a rather different & more advanced products spanning a price range that TVRs £99.600 sits smack in the middle of. 
DonkeyApple said:
The chassis are another company. Richard Thorpe's? Just sold via Power.
Body shop not sure about but it is one of several shell companies like Power itself so my guess is that it is also actually someone else's business operating under a skin.
Even TvR Motors looks to be a shell registered at a generic address in Regent Street.
So my guess and it is a guess is that the brand holding company is separate from the GmbH that is on the website and Power is shell for Doms Power which looks to be the actual trading company in Coventry.
I guess you would want to be contracting with one of the corporate entities which has assets so as there is a chance of recourse should anything go wrong.
Just a few points here, the OEM chassis has always been touted as a joint project between RTRacing and Power so they are 'official'Body shop not sure about but it is one of several shell companies like Power itself so my guess is that it is also actually someone else's business operating under a skin.
Even TvR Motors looks to be a shell registered at a generic address in Regent Street.
So my guess and it is a guess is that the brand holding company is separate from the GmbH that is on the website and Power is shell for Doms Power which looks to be the actual trading company in Coventry.
I guess you would want to be contracting with one of the corporate entities which has assets so as there is a chance of recourse should anything go wrong.
TVRMotors and indeed all NS owned TVR variants before it have been registered at the London address so no difference there. I have a feeling, (I don't not intend to find out) that you will contract to TVRMotors who will then subcontract the work to the various businesses they've got lined up, so I'd be concerned should anything go wrong with regards to delivery etc.
With regards to the point about no price distinction between the models I suggest that's because there will be very little cost difference in building any of the cars with regards to raw materials etc. I'd suggest it's a mistake not to differentiate between the models but it doesn't appear that much thought has gone into this venture at all.
dvs_dave said:
JR said:
......experts in everything from leather to electronics is where the lost talent of Blackpool will be hard to replicate.
Really? I don't think you could find any better locale in the whole country for this particular automotive skillset than Coventry and the surrounding area.Blackpool was hardly reknowned as the car factory capital of the UK was it?
V8 GRF said:
<snip>
With regards to the point about no price distinction between the models I suggest that's because there will be very little cost difference in building any of the cars with regards to raw materials etc. I'd suggest it's a mistake not to differentiate between the models but it doesn't appear that much thought has gone into this venture at all.
An astonishing fact that had not escaped my notice either.With regards to the point about no price distinction between the models I suggest that's because there will be very little cost difference in building any of the cars with regards to raw materials etc. I'd suggest it's a mistake not to differentiate between the models but it doesn't appear that much thought has gone into this venture at all.
They really do need something that is perceived as 'entry level' and then move up the range.
As with the Chimaera 400 of the '90s providing a relatively cheap entry, then moving onwards up through the 450s and 500s/Griff to the 4.5 Cerbera at another £15k + / ~+40-50%.
The actual cost of production, even if it is 'too close to call' between models should have little to do with retail prices. And in any case, much as I hate to say it, if they are going to produce a new Chimaera as per original specifications, there is no way it is the same as a Cerbera, even with the same engine. I am sure owners of later models would agree that theirs possessed certain 'advantages' over a basic Chimaera aside from the engine.
As to my agreeing with them, that might be a separate argument
The important thing is, the buying public must perceive a difference, and be willing to pay for it.
I would still probably want a Chimaera. No way I would part with £99k to have one.
As I mentioned before, as long as there's no definitive specification of the 'new' models it's all speculative. I see no reason why a Chimaera with the same drivetrain/chassis/suspension/brakes as a Sagaris should cost significantly less as a new build.
As for 'advancing through the range' - that point was a bit of a weak spot in the AD 200x range anyway, Tamora/T350/Tuscan/Sagaris all using more or less the same set of mechanicals underneath spanning a rather narrow price and performance range for so many models and variants.
As for 'advancing through the range' - that point was a bit of a weak spot in the AD 200x range anyway, Tamora/T350/Tuscan/Sagaris all using more or less the same set of mechanicals underneath spanning a rather narrow price and performance range for so many models and variants.
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