New TVR Tuscan Price
Discussion
TVR_owner said:
Are these 100K cars being built by people who are...car builders?
Or are they being built by someone who has the ability to service cars with a different engine altogether, rebuild similar type drive trains and has the facilities to undertake repair work and repaint cars?
I think that would only become relevant as soon as an entirely new car was on the cards. From what I've seen on project cars so far, as long as the chassis come from the source that has heavily invested in jigs etc, and bodywork and trimming are farmed out to reputable specialists in those fields, any competent specialist garage can build a better TVR than Blackpool did (at a price, mind!).Or are they being built by someone who has the ability to service cars with a different engine altogether, rebuild similar type drive trains and has the facilities to undertake repair work and repaint cars?
I would insist on having my car set up at Intrax', Bilsteins or Ohlins' facilities (don't know if the latter have such a thing for customer work, but anyway), though...
V8 GRF said:
Talking to the engineer who designed that gave me an interesting insight as he wanted to use something more advanced but PW wouldn't let him so what turned up was a compromise.
There always comes a time when you need to move on, indeed NS said he wanted to draw a line under the PW era so as there's been a gap since the last cars were produced, developing some new ideas of his own would be a good idea and indeed perhaps regain (tough) some of his and the marque's lost credibility.
Out of curiosity what where the engineers proposals?There always comes a time when you need to move on, indeed NS said he wanted to draw a line under the PW era so as there's been a gap since the last cars were produced, developing some new ideas of his own would be a good idea and indeed perhaps regain (tough) some of his and the marque's lost credibility.
TVR_owner said:
Maybe I won't be first on the list.
Second ;-)Like most I can't see this going anywhere however the only way it has a chance is if they build say three or four cars and then sell them so that people can: see that they have the ability to build a complete car, see the quality of work on offer, have a test drive and have no worries about lost deposits. (Similar to a real manufacturer.)
900T-R said:
TVR_owner said:
Are these 100K cars being built by people who are...car builders?
Or are they being built by someone who has the ability to service cars with a different engine altogether, rebuild similar type drive trains and has the facilities to undertake repair work and repaint cars?
I think that would only become relevant as soon as an entirely new car was on the cards. From what I've seen on project cars so far, as long as the chassis come from the source that has heavily invested in jigs etc, and bodywork and trimming are farmed out to reputable specialists in those fields, any competent specialist garage can build a better TVR than Blackpool did (at a price, mind!).Or are they being built by someone who has the ability to service cars with a different engine altogether, rebuild similar type drive trains and has the facilities to undertake repair work and repaint cars?
I would insist on having my car set up at Intrax', Bilsteins or Ohlins' facilities (don't know if the latter have such a thing for customer work, but anyway), though...
I guess at £100K though they will have a significant margin with which to make sure the product is going to work well with minimal niggles.
Ribol said:
f you rate the product so badly why did you buy one in a country where they sell for even more than they do here?
Because it's brilliant in concept and offered a unique driving experience in the modern-day car market? Even hardcore TVRophiles like yours truly cannot excape the fact that the execution left a whole lot to be deisred in places, some of the compromises were unavoidable but others unforgiveable.
I just can't understand the head-in-the-sand attitude of the diehard little Englanders that it's the way that the cars were built (plus the lack of customer support and transparency from TVR HQ at times) that's been holding a potentially world-beating product back all along, and ultimately was a big contributory factor in TVRs demise.
I want TVR back, and I want them built properly. Outside of your little clique, I would wager to guess that is a sentiment shared by 99.99% of people who are into this sort of car.
Gazzab said:
Why keep attacking owners in such a personalised fashion,
I'm not. I just sometimes get sick and tired of the endless repeating of the mantra 'TVR is dead, period' often enough for it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy by the same old people who obviously want TVR to remain dead for whatever reason. You don't have to spend a lot of time with Dom Trickett to see that he's passionate about the brand and having it back in some shape or another. No, it won't be the same - but in some regards, that is for the better IMO.
All I ask for is a bit more open-mindedness. Even in the perceived haydays of TVR it wasn't all good - one could argue that the short spell of unprecedented success merely served to paint over the cracks of the fundamental underlying issues that were never properly addressed.
900T-R said:
Because it's brilliant in concept and offered a unique driving experience in the modern-day car market?
Even hardcore TVRophiles like yours truly cannot excape the fact that the execution left a whole lot to be deisred in places, some of the compromises were unavoidable but others unforgiveable.
I just can't understand the head-in-the-sand attitude of the diehard little Englanders that it's the way that the cars were built (plus the lack of customer support and transparency from TVR HQ at times) that's been holding a potentially world-beating product back all along, and ultimately was a big contributory factor in TVRs demise.
I want TVR back, and I want them built properly. Outside of your little clique, I would wager to guess that is a sentiment shared by 99.99% of people who are into this sort of car.
So we could have a TVR that is built to a standard very close to a mass produced car but the cost is beyond what most potential TVR owners can afford. It was the relative affordability that made the cars special, that was what gave thousands of middle and working class folk the oppurtunity to buy one, for the lucky ones, the chance to order one in any colour they liked, and discuss with dealers, what they could have fitted that be never was supposed to be.Even hardcore TVRophiles like yours truly cannot excape the fact that the execution left a whole lot to be deisred in places, some of the compromises were unavoidable but others unforgiveable.
I just can't understand the head-in-the-sand attitude of the diehard little Englanders that it's the way that the cars were built (plus the lack of customer support and transparency from TVR HQ at times) that's been holding a potentially world-beating product back all along, and ultimately was a big contributory factor in TVRs demise.
I want TVR back, and I want them built properly. Outside of your little clique, I would wager to guess that is a sentiment shared by 99.99% of people who are into this sort of car.
Is a properly built TVR an oxymoron? It makes for an interseting dicsussion but it requires a new market sector, one that has lots of folk with that extra cash and confidence required to buy that oxymoron, folk who have always bought proper cars and have spent hours criticising the plastic car built in a shed.
I hope the marque is not dead, but I only see life in a mildly re-engineered product.
900T-R said:
I'm not. I just sometimes get sick and tired of the endless repeating of the mantra 'TVR is dead, period' often enough for it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy by the same old people who obviously want TVR to remain dead for whatever reason.
You don't have to spend a lot of time with Dom Trickett to see that he's passionate about the brand and having it back in some shape or another. No, it won't be the same - but in some regards, that is for the better IMO.
All I ask for is a bit more open-mindedness. Even in the perceived haydays of TVR it wasn't all good - one could argue that the short spell of unprecedented success merely served to paint over the cracks of the fundamental underlying issues that were never properly addressed.
Well said.You don't have to spend a lot of time with Dom Trickett to see that he's passionate about the brand and having it back in some shape or another. No, it won't be the same - but in some regards, that is for the better IMO.
All I ask for is a bit more open-mindedness. Even in the perceived haydays of TVR it wasn't all good - one could argue that the short spell of unprecedented success merely served to paint over the cracks of the fundamental underlying issues that were never properly addressed.
TVR as it was is gone. Period.
What TVR becomes from now on is another chapter. It remains to be seen if the brand will have any kind of success.
At first, I laughed my head off at the £100K figures being spoken about. But, if you look at the car market, there are alot of cars in this price bracket. If the forthcoming quality from TVR is good and on a par with similarly priced performance cars (that's not actually impossible), then there is a market. Otherwise, there wouldn't be other cars selling for similar prices.
We'll see.
There is no market for the TVR of old anymore. It's unfeasable to build cars for such a low cost, to the standards that the world now expects. It's sad but it's true. Time changes, things move on.
Edited by lazyitus on Friday 25th November 10:02
900T-R said:
Ribol said:
f you rate the product so badly why did you buy one in a country where they sell for even more than they do here?
I just can't understand the head-in-the-sand attitude of the diehard little Englanders that it's the way that the cars were built (plus the lack of customer support and transparency from TVR HQ at times) that's been holding a potentially world-beating product back all along, and ultimately was a big contributory factor in TVRs demise.I want TVR back, and I want them built properly. Outside of your little clique, I would wager to guess that is a sentiment shared by 99.99% of people who are into this sort of car.
You clearly don't understand much about cars as you describe them as shoddily put together. Any idiot could work on an assembly line for Lexus and produce a brilliant car, because it's design allows for a perfectly built/reliable product. TVR did not leave the drawing board that way so when it came to putting the cars together the workforce had to be better than most just to get it to work. Clearly the TVR facility could only build cars up to a certain level and a buyer would have to accept that or shop elsewhere.
If someone else chooses to have another go at building these cars they could probably be improved on by throwing more money at design but unless they start with a lot of money and a clean sheet of paper they are unlikely to be much better. Speaking only as someone who has been in the market for a new TVR in the past I would not pay £100k for one today, there are better cars out there for that sort of money. There may well be some that would but I doubt there are enough to make it viable. I see this turning into another Jensen, if it ever happens at all.
Ribol said:
Speaking only as someone who has been in the market for a new TVR in the past I would not pay £100k for one today, there are better cars out there for that sort of money.
How can you say that? Which 'new' £100K TVR have you test driven and compared to other cars of that cost?
You seem to assume it's going to be a pile of s
t.Ribol, if you think a handmade sports car (a relatively simple product compered to a Lexus or even a VW Golf) can't be built properly and consistently I'd urge you to visit the factories of the likes of Donkervoort, Wiessmann, the folks at Gullwing that put the Cobra Mk VI together, et cetera, or for that matter, any of the small tuning/motorsport workshops that basically engineer and build things from scratch.
I choose British products (not only automotive, but also high end hi-fi among other things) on the strength of their conceptual and design brilliance and ingenuity which I highly respect (German engineering, conversely, often resorts to over-complicated solutions because they choose to keep traveling down the same road instead of thinking the whole thing through from scratch) but it's not a big secret in the world that manufacturing things to a consistent standard is not a particular forte of the British industry. Most of my British colleagues and associates refer to the 'it'll do' mentality as the main cause.
I choose British products (not only automotive, but also high end hi-fi among other things) on the strength of their conceptual and design brilliance and ingenuity which I highly respect (German engineering, conversely, often resorts to over-complicated solutions because they choose to keep traveling down the same road instead of thinking the whole thing through from scratch) but it's not a big secret in the world that manufacturing things to a consistent standard is not a particular forte of the British industry. Most of my British colleagues and associates refer to the 'it'll do' mentality as the main cause.
TVR_owner said:
lazyitus said:
How can you say that?
Which 'new' £100K TVR have you test driven and compared to other cars of that cost?
You seem to assume it's going to be a pile of st.
I assume he's talking about what's on offer on the website at £100k?Which 'new' £100K TVR have you test driven and compared to other cars of that cost?
You seem to assume it's going to be a pile of s
t.
Isn't that what we are talking about here?
TVR_owner said:
lazyitus said:
How can you say that?
Which 'new' £100K TVR have you test driven and compared to other cars of that cost?
You seem to assume it's going to be a pile of st.
I assume he's talking about what's on offer on the website at £100k?Which 'new' £100K TVR have you test driven and compared to other cars of that cost?
You seem to assume it's going to be a pile of s
t.
900T-R said:
Ribol, if you think a handmade sports car (a relatively simple product compered to a Lexus or even a VW Golf) can't be built properly and consistently I'd urge you to visit the factories of the likes of Donkervoort, Wiessmann, the folks at Gullwing that put the Cobra Mk VI together, et cetera, or for that matter, any of the small tuning/motorsport workshops that basically engineer and build things from scratch.
Ah, at twice the price though.Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff