First track day and Q's
Discussion
First track (airfield) day on Friday - what a superb day out! The main purpose for going was to experience the limits of road holding my car has - and after leaving the track 5 times, I’m now pretty sure I know! 
Had some excellent tuition from a former Tuscan racer - top man. I was concerned before the event that I might damage my pride & joy but all is well.
Testing the car to its (I mean my) limit has highlighted shortcomings in the car - as well as my driving ability. After only 10mins the instructor diagnosed an imbalance in the brakes - the offside rear has greater braking than the nearside and the front/rear bias is far too much in favour of the rear. This made braking heavily (from 135 into a hairpin!) interesting at times! His diagnosis seems spot on as by the end of the day, the rear wheels were almost completely black (offside darker) and the fronts only a pale grey. Contributing to this problem is that rear pads were required at its last service and I was recommended to have Greenstuff pads fitted. The fronts are original.
Questions to the wise:
1. How can I make sure the imbalance between rear wheels is corrected without waiting to find out at a track day?
2. Any ideas re the poor performance of my front brakes?
3. I noticed that the inside edge of each rear tyre has worn more than elsewhere - is this normal?
Anyone not willing to attend a track day for fear of harming their car should think again. The experience gained has detected a potentially dangerous fault with my car which I previously considered was in perfect condition (and so did the specialist that looks after it). I can highly recommend the experience.
Had some excellent tuition from a former Tuscan racer - top man. I was concerned before the event that I might damage my pride & joy but all is well. Testing the car to its (I mean my) limit has highlighted shortcomings in the car - as well as my driving ability. After only 10mins the instructor diagnosed an imbalance in the brakes - the offside rear has greater braking than the nearside and the front/rear bias is far too much in favour of the rear. This made braking heavily (from 135 into a hairpin!) interesting at times! His diagnosis seems spot on as by the end of the day, the rear wheels were almost completely black (offside darker) and the fronts only a pale grey. Contributing to this problem is that rear pads were required at its last service and I was recommended to have Greenstuff pads fitted. The fronts are original.
Questions to the wise:
1. How can I make sure the imbalance between rear wheels is corrected without waiting to find out at a track day?
2. Any ideas re the poor performance of my front brakes?
3. I noticed that the inside edge of each rear tyre has worn more than elsewhere - is this normal?
Anyone not willing to attend a track day for fear of harming their car should think again. The experience gained has detected a potentially dangerous fault with my car which I previously considered was in perfect condition (and so did the specialist that looks after it). I can highly recommend the experience.
There was one other TVR there - a Chim 500 - which had standard brakes but had more brake dust on the front wheels than the rears. Maybe that is down to the Greenstuff pads on my car as you say. I know the rear disks are larger but I thought this might be more than made up for by the bigger callipers on the front?
I increased pressure by 3lbs front and rear.
I increased pressure by 3lbs front and rear.
all sounds normal. I managed to cook my rear brakes at Croft a couple of years ago. they have always been dustier than the fronts, but much better since fitting grooved and drilled discs.
I looked into getting a balancing contraption which evens things out through the use of an adjustable valve. they are available from Demon Tweaks, and I can't remember whether it was cost or laziness that stopped me from doing it.
R
I looked into getting a balancing contraption which evens things out through the use of an adjustable valve. they are available from Demon Tweaks, and I can't remember whether it was cost or laziness that stopped me from doing it.
R
An update and yet more questions…
Having investigated upgrading the brakes I realised that it was more than I could afford at this time. So, instead I asked Peninsula to strip and overhaul the front and rear callipers and fit greenstuff pads to the front (already on the back).
Driving yesterday I tried two emergency stops one after the other from about 60 mph. Smooth asphalt road, dead straight, slightly downhill. On the second attempt I pushed the pedal as hard as I could. To my surprise there was not even the slightest hint that the wheels could have locked up. The deceleration was pretty good but not fantastic - no obvious fault - but I can’t believe I was unable to lock the wheels. The pedal felt solid and not spongy. Steve’s book mentions that he can lock the wheels with the standard brakes - so are my brakes not working properly? I am still inclined to think that my rear brakes are doing most of the work - is there something I can do to test this unequivocally?
Please put me out of my misery if I am worrying about nothing!!
Garry
Having investigated upgrading the brakes I realised that it was more than I could afford at this time. So, instead I asked Peninsula to strip and overhaul the front and rear callipers and fit greenstuff pads to the front (already on the back).
Driving yesterday I tried two emergency stops one after the other from about 60 mph. Smooth asphalt road, dead straight, slightly downhill. On the second attempt I pushed the pedal as hard as I could. To my surprise there was not even the slightest hint that the wheels could have locked up. The deceleration was pretty good but not fantastic - no obvious fault - but I can’t believe I was unable to lock the wheels. The pedal felt solid and not spongy. Steve’s book mentions that he can lock the wheels with the standard brakes - so are my brakes not working properly? I am still inclined to think that my rear brakes are doing most of the work - is there something I can do to test this unequivocally?
Please put me out of my misery if I am worrying about nothing!!
Garry
You need to bed in the pads/and discs. Unless this is done the pads have the grip of soggy toilet tissue.
I also find that Greenstuff can be a bit iffy from cold at the bets of times.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I also find that Greenstuff can be a bit iffy from cold at the bets of times.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Still run Mintexx 1144 at the back but now dropped the EBC Greens for running Ferrodo 3466. Bought the last four sets from DT for £25 a set. The need a bit of milling as their pad material is about 1-2 mm too thick. They still do them in DS2000 I believe. I gave Dave the details so he could go track some down.
Steve
Steve
Thanks - I'll check with Dave and see how he's getting on. Looks like I'll have to stick with the EBCs at Oulton though.
Checking the pads on Saturday while the wheels were off for the new tyres I'm still amazed by the lack of wear in the EBCs. The much, much, much nicer Tarox XFs lasted about two trackdays - these EBCs have lasted 4 and still look new (despite my best efforts to destroy them!)
Checking the pads on Saturday while the wheels were off for the new tyres I'm still amazed by the lack of wear in the EBCs. The much, much, much nicer Tarox XFs lasted about two trackdays - these EBCs have lasted 4 and still look new (despite my best efforts to destroy them!)
quote:
You need to bed in the pads/and discs. Unless this is done the pads have the grip of soggy toilet tissue.
I also find that Greenstuff can be a bit iffy from cold at the bets of times.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Many thanks for your reply Steve. The pads have been on the car for about 400 miles now and I have done a progressive braking process (stopping from 30, then 40 then 50) which I had hoped would have bedded them in. When I tested them yesterday I had been driving for about 30 mins some of them with enthusiasm! Does this background make a difference?
The last lot I had was at Mallory Park where I needed new pads after the first two sessions' poodling about. Fitted some EBCs and they bedded in within a couple of laps but it was a little more hard than 30, 40, 50. Like 120 to 25 ish. It is possible that they need a little bit more abuse to get them going or they have hit the EBC going off period. It is difficult to know.
If the discs had been changed, also possible that they may not have been cleaned or there is a metal finish that needs to be disposed of before the brakes start working.
Steve
If the discs had been changed, also possible that they may not have been cleaned or there is a metal finish that needs to be disposed of before the brakes start working.
Steve
quote:
Thanks again Steve.
From what you say it seems the brakes are probably OK but need more abuse before they really start to perform. Excellent!!! Looking forward to fixing them!
That's not quite what I said/meant. I would give them a bit more abuse where there is no traffic and it is safe to do so and see if they get better. On the track I would break early and build up confidence in them. The pads could simply be naff and there may still be a problem.
Please don't be the last of the last breakers and end up breaking the car!
Steve
Agree entirely - I didn't misinterpret your advice. The track is the place. I had delayed booking my next one because I didn't want to waste the day with brakes that were not performing to spec. The last day was hampered by a brake imbalance - if they were not stopping properly that would be a track day wasted.
Experienced TVR’ers knew all along but I’m fairly new to all this. After a session of heavy braking on a deserted road, my brakes are transformed. Serious braking power from standard brakes with EBC pads. The pads obviously take a long time/serious abuse to bed in - under normal road driving conditions it might take forever!
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