Awesome Tuscan R - OH YES!
Discussion
Just read the Tuscan R at Le Mans article in this month's Evo - buy it. The pics of the car are so good that I've had to change my personal contribution to the most beautiful cars ever. My original list:
The new Tuscan R goes in at No. 2 for me - it looked good on earlier pictures but is frankly breathtaking.
The review itself is very promising, a few quotes to get the juices flowing
"Just 200 miles into the test, I already know this is easily the best GT car that TVR has ever built."
"Cornering speeds are sensational - Tuscan R finds almost 911-like traction out of tight turns."
"It's incredibly tempting to throw caution to the wind and just max it all the way. I try to resist - surely it must be crawling with Gendarmes today of all days - and I'm doing alright to begin with until a Ferrari 355 blasts past while I'm doodling along at 110mph. The road's still empty and straight. Oh God, it's no good. I drop it into fourth and start to reel him in while, over in the passenger seat, Chris goes suddenly quiet. The Ferrari is really shifting but I'm into fifth and we're starting to close the gap. There's a bend approaching and I think he's starting to lift - yep, a momentary flash of brake lights - but there's no lifting going on in the Tuscan, just throttle down and staying down as we eat him up through the fast left-hand sweeper just like he's standing still.
It's the best demonstration you could have of what makes this car so special - we're doing over 160mph and there's no way you'd have the confidence to do that in any other TVR. The Tuscan R now combines the incredible performance TVRs have always had in abundance but with a chassis capable of using it to the full."
I'm really hoping that this is the car that is finally going to propel TVR into the elite of the world's most desirable manufacturers. I know I want one so badly it hurts!
roadsweeper.
quote:
My top ten, in order!
1. Aston Martin Vanquish - approaches perfection.
2. Aston Martin DB7 Vantage - not so good to drive, but beautiful!
3. TVR Tuscan S (in black) - do cars come any meaner? Also has the best interior in the world IMO.
4. McLaren F1 LM - beauty through functional design.
5. Aston Martin DB5 - don't need to say anything about this one.
6. Ferrari 355 - makes the 360 look crass.
7. Ferrari F40 - another beauty through functional design.
8. Porsche Carrera GT - not in production yet but is a mean looker.
9. TVR Chimaera - I have one so am biased, but it is stunning.
10. Lamborghini Murcielago - might not be able to spell it, but it's a stunning piece of design!
The new Tuscan R goes in at No. 2 for me - it looked good on earlier pictures but is frankly breathtaking.
The review itself is very promising, a few quotes to get the juices flowing
"Just 200 miles into the test, I already know this is easily the best GT car that TVR has ever built."
"Cornering speeds are sensational - Tuscan R finds almost 911-like traction out of tight turns."
"It's incredibly tempting to throw caution to the wind and just max it all the way. I try to resist - surely it must be crawling with Gendarmes today of all days - and I'm doing alright to begin with until a Ferrari 355 blasts past while I'm doodling along at 110mph. The road's still empty and straight. Oh God, it's no good. I drop it into fourth and start to reel him in while, over in the passenger seat, Chris goes suddenly quiet. The Ferrari is really shifting but I'm into fifth and we're starting to close the gap. There's a bend approaching and I think he's starting to lift - yep, a momentary flash of brake lights - but there's no lifting going on in the Tuscan, just throttle down and staying down as we eat him up through the fast left-hand sweeper just like he's standing still.
It's the best demonstration you could have of what makes this car so special - we're doing over 160mph and there's no way you'd have the confidence to do that in any other TVR. The Tuscan R now combines the incredible performance TVRs have always had in abundance but with a chassis capable of using it to the full."
I'm really hoping that this is the car that is finally going to propel TVR into the elite of the world's most desirable manufacturers. I know I want one so badly it hurts!
roadsweeper.
Matt: Sorry to hear about the Fester! 
At least you got out OK though. Don't joke about me getting a Tuscan R - I badly want one now! 
I'm looking at starting a company with my brother and a mate in the next few months so if all goes well I might take the plunge next year. It's a long time since I've wanted a car this badly (last time was a McLaren F1 LM - only five made and made the standard McLaren F1 look a bit slow - but that was a mite too expensive )
gazzab: I know what you mean about the Cerbera, but the Chimaera looks awesome with the top down. However, with the top up the Chimaera is definitely not a match for the Cerbera. So many beautiful TVRs, so little room in my top ten!
REV-EREND: Good luck to the bloke - anyone know him? (Not that I'm planning to mug him and nick his keys once he takes delivery or anything!
)
At least you got out OK though. Don't joke about me getting a Tuscan R - I badly want one now! I'm looking at starting a company with my brother and a mate in the next few months so if all goes well I might take the plunge next year. It's a long time since I've wanted a car this badly (last time was a McLaren F1 LM - only five made and made the standard McLaren F1 look a bit slow - but that was a mite too expensive ) gazzab: I know what you mean about the Cerbera, but the Chimaera looks awesome with the top down. However, with the top up the Chimaera is definitely not a match for the Cerbera. So many beautiful TVRs, so little room in my top ten!
REV-EREND: Good luck to the bloke - anyone know him? (Not that I'm planning to mug him and nick his keys once he takes delivery or anything!
)I meant to mention by the way, and this is quite scary, the Tuscan R they were testing only had 390bhp instead of 440bhp and the standard 5-speed 'box instead of the 6-speed sequential unit... 
As for the colour - black would be truly evil though I'd like to see it in the carbon first. The colour in the magazine looks amazing but it is probably totally different before the magazine printers have corrupted it. Orange with black wheels would be very nice too.
I just keep imagining being able to destroy Porsches and Ferraris on both the straights and the corners, and knowing you paid less for your motor too! The only thing that would probably beat it would be a Pagani Zonda C12/C12S, that 700bhp Edonis, the forthcoming Ferrari F60 or a Big Mac - however, I think the cheapest one of that lot is about a quarter of a million! (An Ultima Can Am would probably take it too, but that's more a race car than even the Tuscan R and certainly can't seat 4 people as far as I know!)
Roll on TVR!
roadsweeper.
As for the colour - black would be truly evil though I'd like to see it in the carbon first. The colour in the magazine looks amazing but it is probably totally different before the magazine printers have corrupted it. Orange with black wheels would be very nice too.
I just keep imagining being able to destroy Porsches and Ferraris on both the straights and the corners, and knowing you paid less for your motor too! The only thing that would probably beat it would be a Pagani Zonda C12/C12S, that 700bhp Edonis, the forthcoming Ferrari F60 or a Big Mac - however, I think the cheapest one of that lot is about a quarter of a million! (An Ultima Can Am would probably take it too, but that's more a race car than even the Tuscan R and certainly can't seat 4 people as far as I know!)
Roll on TVR!
roadsweeper.
I don't think 'Miles' reads pistonheads but you never
know - you might be just slightly jealous to know
that he was just a passenger this year - in an
Aston DB7 V12 (vantage) - another of your top 10.
Should be interesting if Miles brings the 'R' to
Le Mans next year - I could just keep up with the
DB7 V12 up to 120.... but they left me after that.
know - you might be just slightly jealous to know
that he was just a passenger this year - in an
Aston DB7 V12 (vantage) - another of your top 10.
Should be interesting if Miles brings the 'R' to
Le Mans next year - I could just keep up with the
DB7 V12 up to 120.... but they left me after that.
Just read the review also which was extremely positive and definitely worth a read.
However I like my dealer are a bit concerned about the £75K price tag being asked. Is it really £25K better than a Tuscan S ?
I am very fortunate to own both a Tamora and a 355 both of which put a huge grin on my face everytime I turn the ignition key. The Tamora whilst a very good car is not even in the same league as the 355 in terms of build quality, ride, handling etc and unless TVR have suddenly changed, I would be suprised if they are there yet, even with this beast. With all the various engine problems seen with speed six, I ask myself whether a more highly tuned version is likely to be more reliable ? Also if you have driven a Tamora in bright sunlight you will know that the LCD readout, no matter what brightness/contrast settings, is unreadable. The Tuscan R has no analogue dials as backup - this could prove a major design problem.
Don't get me wrong I love TVR's but IMHO there are far better 1-4yr old cars that can be had for £75K
Mark
PS Pls Pls TVR offer the 6 speed sequential box on the Tamora & other Tuscans
>> Edited by frostie on Tuesday 9th July 20:40
>> Edited by frostie on Tuesday 9th July 20:52
However I like my dealer are a bit concerned about the £75K price tag being asked. Is it really £25K better than a Tuscan S ?
I am very fortunate to own both a Tamora and a 355 both of which put a huge grin on my face everytime I turn the ignition key. The Tamora whilst a very good car is not even in the same league as the 355 in terms of build quality, ride, handling etc and unless TVR have suddenly changed, I would be suprised if they are there yet, even with this beast. With all the various engine problems seen with speed six, I ask myself whether a more highly tuned version is likely to be more reliable ? Also if you have driven a Tamora in bright sunlight you will know that the LCD readout, no matter what brightness/contrast settings, is unreadable. The Tuscan R has no analogue dials as backup - this could prove a major design problem.
Don't get me wrong I love TVR's but IMHO there are far better 1-4yr old cars that can be had for £75K
Mark
PS Pls Pls TVR offer the 6 speed sequential box on the Tamora & other Tuscans
>> Edited by frostie on Tuesday 9th July 20:40
>> Edited by frostie on Tuesday 9th July 20:52
Hi frostie
Fair point about the LCD display, but even if what gpb says was wrong the tester actually comments that he never uses it as the tachometer LED's provide all the information you would normally need.
As for the 355 vs Tamora (congrats on owning both BTW!), I couldn't comment as I haven't driven a Tamora. I have however driven an F355 on a race track and I suspect you are probably correct about the handling of the Ferrari being better. I am very surprised to hear that you think the ride is better though as the Tamora is renowned for being softly-sprung and the F355 was definitely on the firm side.
You say that you are concerned about the £75k price tag and whether it is really £25k better than a Tuscan S. It sounds to me as though it is. You get a six-speed sequential box (agree with your wish to have it made available on other TVR models!) an engine putting out well over 100bhp/tonne, carbon fibre body, 4 seats, a 100% increase in torsional rigidity and a substantial increase in straight line performance. This for me justifies the price increase, with the caveat that build quality and reliability must improve over preceding models, particularly, as you say, where the engine is concerned.
I think it is more valid to ask whether the Ferrari 360 is really worth approx. £35k more than the TVR Tuscan R or the Porsche 911 Turbo £15k (is that right?) more? It seems likely that if the Tuscan R can genuinely paste an F355, all other things being equal, then it's likely to be able to paste a F360 too. In that case you have to assess the Ferrari on factors other than outright performance (acceleration, top speed and cornering ability). So, looks from the outside? For me the Tuscan R blows away the F360. On the inside? Same again. Exclusivity? Same again. Badge? Ferrari win that one undoubtedly. Engineering integrity? Probably Ferrari.
So, if I had £75k to spend on a car (not there yet but I'm only 24 so there's time!) what would I spend it on. Well, so far my money is on the Tuscan R. IMO it looks better inside and out and will undoubtedly have vastly superior straight line performance and top speed. If relability is up to scratch and the handling is as good as it sounds then I honestly can't see why anyone would pay £35k more for a new Ferrari 360 or roughly the same for a used F355, other than because of the badge.
On the negative side, I was a little disappointed to see that the 1000kg weight target had not been met (light weight is always a massive advantage) and I doubt the 440bhp target will be met, so the power-to-weight ratio won't be as good as was originally foreseen. However, I think I'm nit-picking there really.
Also, disappointed to read the review of the Tamora on the track car article. <3 secs quicker then the Civic Type R was pathetic - come on TVR, sort it out!
Just so you know, I do like Ferraris and have the F355 as one of my top 10 most beautiful cars, so I'm not a blind-to-anything-else TVR fanatic (well maybe a bit!).
roadsweeper.
Fair point about the LCD display, but even if what gpb says was wrong the tester actually comments that he never uses it as the tachometer LED's provide all the information you would normally need.
As for the 355 vs Tamora (congrats on owning both BTW!), I couldn't comment as I haven't driven a Tamora. I have however driven an F355 on a race track and I suspect you are probably correct about the handling of the Ferrari being better. I am very surprised to hear that you think the ride is better though as the Tamora is renowned for being softly-sprung and the F355 was definitely on the firm side.
You say that you are concerned about the £75k price tag and whether it is really £25k better than a Tuscan S. It sounds to me as though it is. You get a six-speed sequential box (agree with your wish to have it made available on other TVR models!
) an engine putting out well over 100bhp/tonne, carbon fibre body, 4 seats, a 100% increase in torsional rigidity and a substantial increase in straight line performance. This for me justifies the price increase, with the caveat that build quality and reliability must improve over preceding models, particularly, as you say, where the engine is concerned. I think it is more valid to ask whether the Ferrari 360 is really worth approx. £35k more than the TVR Tuscan R or the Porsche 911 Turbo £15k (is that right?) more? It seems likely that if the Tuscan R can genuinely paste an F355, all other things being equal, then it's likely to be able to paste a F360 too. In that case you have to assess the Ferrari on factors other than outright performance (acceleration, top speed and cornering ability). So, looks from the outside? For me the Tuscan R blows away the F360. On the inside? Same again. Exclusivity? Same again. Badge? Ferrari win that one undoubtedly. Engineering integrity? Probably Ferrari.
So, if I had £75k to spend on a car (not there yet but I'm only 24 so there's time!
) what would I spend it on. Well, so far my money is on the Tuscan R. IMO it looks better inside and out and will undoubtedly have vastly superior straight line performance and top speed. If relability is up to scratch and the handling is as good as it sounds then I honestly can't see why anyone would pay £35k more for a new Ferrari 360 or roughly the same for a used F355, other than because of the badge. On the negative side, I was a little disappointed to see that the 1000kg weight target had not been met (light weight is always a massive advantage) and I doubt the 440bhp target will be met, so the power-to-weight ratio won't be as good as was originally foreseen. However, I think I'm nit-picking there really.
Also, disappointed to read the review of the Tamora on the track car article. <3 secs quicker then the Civic Type R was pathetic - come on TVR, sort it out!
Just so you know, I do like Ferraris and have the F355 as one of my top 10 most beautiful cars, so I'm not a blind-to-anything-else TVR fanatic (well maybe a bit!).
roadsweeper.
quote:
You get a six-speed sequential box (agree with your wish to have it made available on other TVR models!
My understanding is that for £75K you get the base model which would have a standard Tuscan S (390bhp) engine and gearbox (I know the original customers were told they could have any spec for this proce but I bet you can't anymore). You'll have to pay extra for the 6 speed sequential box and high output engine.
I would have thought a more realistic price for a specced up R would be closer to £90K
quote:Closer to the race engine tune I believe, though also rumours of 4.2 or 4.3 litre capacity to help driveability.
What have TVR done to this even more highly tuned engine to make it more reliable than the previous less stressed units, that quite frankly have a terrible reputation? Nothing I expect, which makes this a very expensive workshop ornament. Nice shape though.
danny
I don't think that I would pay 75 K for a car that if used every day after few yrs I would have to get under with a wire brush and a scraper and get rid of all the rust and bubbling powder coating and then have to hammerite it.
don't think so. might excuse it on one of the less expensive cars but not on a 75k car!
Nice front though, wish they had kept the styling exactly the same as the racer version including the big rear wing
don't think so. might excuse it on one of the less expensive cars but not on a 75k car! Nice front though, wish they had kept the styling exactly the same as the racer version including the big rear wing
Alex: You don't hammerite 28mm aluminium honeycomb panelling! (That's what the Tuscan R uses for smooth airflow under the car so chassis, etc., should be protected in the main).
Anyway, I don't think I'd like to pay £110k for a car (e.g. Ferrari 360)and then get p!ssed on in almost every way by something that cost far less. Come on, be honest, it would bother most of us.
Of course, all this is assuming that the car really is as good as the early signs are indicating. Fingers crossed, because if it isn't TVR are going to lose face. Badly.
roadsweeper.
(That's what the Tuscan R uses for smooth airflow under the car so chassis, etc., should be protected in the main). Anyway, I don't think I'd like to pay £110k for a car (e.g. Ferrari 360)and then get p!ssed on in almost every way by something that cost far less. Come on, be honest, it would bother most of us.
Of course, all this is assuming that the car really is as good as the early signs are indicating. Fingers crossed, because if it isn't TVR are going to lose face. Badly.
roadsweeper.
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