So is there any news????

So is there any news????

Author
Discussion

Session

252 posts

179 months

Thursday 20th March 2014
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A lot depends on how many units a year their business plan relies on, I very much doubt they are going for 1000's a year like Porsche or Jaguar. If they are only looking at doing 200-500 a year globally then they don't need to be the better than a Porsche, simply different.

18 months ago I took my gf to a LandRover experience day and som,e lunchtime banter with the JLR driver's got rpund to the cars we drive. They were taking the mick out of my gf's Alfa with regards to Alfa reliability until I pointed out Land Rover were probably worse (they agreed!). Anyway, I mentioned I had a TVR and one of their drivers used to own a Chimaera, they recommended I look at an F-type and I said no, it is too big, too heavy and too expensive for the decent performance version.

If TVR can do lightweight and high performance with striking looks, custom feeling luxury interior, decent handling and ride on our rubbish roads, then they'll do just fine imo.

Just because another company may do more units and make more money does not mean they are more successful as it depends what your goals are.

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Thursday 20th March 2014
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glow worm said:
I can't resist the temptation of posting unrepentants car after these posts of GT3 incineration and fiddling whilst Rome burns laugh Hope you don't mind Paul .

Thanks Keith! Just as I'd managed to erase that from my memory bank! biggrin

Jaybees

3 posts

120 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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unrepentant said:
You'd lose your bet. The car is awesome and actually sounds like an old school TVR with carbon cans. Handles like a dream on road and track. Closest thing to my Tuscans and Sag but better made and with a 21st Century equipment level.

Your first post was an avert for some car alarm person and your second post was this. What's your connection to TVR's?
No Connection to TVR, More a connection with Jaguar! I worked for Jaguar for 7 years.
I have friends with TVR's and I think I'm getting addicted to them!
I love Jaguar and would honestly take one over any German saloon any day. But Jaguar do not make light weight performance cars.
I personally would love to see TVR back in production, I just hope they stick to what they do and don't try to produce a car to rival an 'F'.


Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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glow worm said:
I can't resist the temptation of posting unrepentants car after these posts of GT3 incineration and fiddling whilst Rome burns laugh Hope you don't mind Paul .

yikes

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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Jaybees said:
I personally would love to see TVR back in production, I just hope they stick to what they do and don't try to produce a car to rival an 'F'.

What they do? They don't do anything and haven't for 8 years. The factory is gone, the know how is gone, the people are gone, TVR is gone. If anything ever makes it back into any sort of production it's no more than a TVR badge stuck on someone else's idea.

The cars they made before were great for the time but they were not built to a standard that would be acceptable for a 70 or 80k car today and they were losing money making them. And the last one was made almost a decade ago! To put it in context Jaguar were making the S Type and the X Type and the first generation XK back then. Porsche were still making the 996. The whole landscape has changed since then.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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unrepentant said:
The cars they made before were great for the time but they were not built to a standard that would be acceptable for a 70 or 80k car today and they were losing money making them. And the last one was made almost a decade ago! To put it in context Jaguar were making the S Type and the X Type and the first generation XK back then. Porsche were still making the 996. The whole landscape has changed since then.
But on the whole not for the better - the only things that got better over the years as driving tools are Boxsters and Caymans (but the Boxster had to come from far afield...), the rest has just gone faster, fatter, more mainstream and less involving.

Another thing -

F-type V8S - ~295 bhp/ton, low 4s 0-60
Vantage V12 Roadster - ~295 bhp/ton. low 4s 0-60

So the biggest and baddest versions of 2-seat roadsters that are more or less comparable with TVRs in terms of overall package - bold, brutish two seat roadsters with a nice interior and a dash of practicality which enables you to take it for a weekend or holiday with the missus rather than your boring everyday car - haven't moved the game on in terms of outright performance compared with TVRs of 10-15 years ago (and nor should they, there's only so much you can use on the road and both of the above are borderline excessive when you drive them just like TVRs were).

I'd say mid-300 bhp in a ca. 1,200 kg car - say, where current V8 Morgans are - would be spot on, and deliver the sort of 'directness' and intimacy the mainstream competitors have forgotten how to do... The rest is merely a question of styling and getting all the boring aspects on an acceptable level...

If the new cars are as gorgeous to behold as the old, show good composure when being driven hard on country roads and don't break down all the time (which pre-Cerbera/Tuscan cars on the whole didn't anyway, they just tended to have niggles you wouldn't find in a mass produced motor) I'd say mission accomplished and there would be every chance of success in on a limited sort of scale... smile



Edited by 900T-R on Friday 21st March 12:45

Zippee

13,440 posts

233 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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unrepentant said:
What they do? They don't do anything and haven't for 8 years. The factory is gone, the know how is gone, the people are gone, TVR is gone. If anything ever makes it back into any sort of production it's no more than a TVR badge stuck on someone else's idea.

That last sentence sums up my thoughts entirely. To the many on here that say they'd buy one I'd love to know just how many would, push comes to shove, actually part with 70-80 big ones that a new TVR is likely to cost? Not many I'd say and thats from the enthusiasts.
If TVR managed to get a good quality product that was fully certified for the US market then they may stand a chance as the brand does have a certain appeal over there.

Podie

46,630 posts

274 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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unrepentant said:
Company is purchased with fanfare and rumours abound of new fast inexpensive car.

Jaguar launches F-Type

New owners cack pants and go quiet.

Jaguar launches F-Type coupe.

Silence is deafening, except for sound of big cat urine splattering on fireworks.
rofl

Nailed that one.

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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If I had a spare £80k, I would go for the 500bhp F-Type - looks, power, handling and sound all in one package - and the first car I actually aspire to own in a very long time.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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The thing is being a Dutch resident I would need to have a second residential address in the UK or Germany before contemplating a new car purchase. A new Morgan Plus Eight (or for that matter a Mustang) attracts 60,000 euro of CO2 based purchase tax and there's no way in hell I'm going to line the pockets of the Dutch treasury with that sort of money for the sake of a car - I mean that would buy me a perfectly nice second house in the Eifel region scratchchin

That said, if I were in a position to avoid that sort of penalty I would buy a new TVR given decent low-volume production quality and good road-biased handling before anything else.

Why?

When you cast the usual status/image and bar room kudos arguments aside, the mainstream sports car roadsters offer an experience that is rather too close to that of cars that are plentiful on 'pocket money' (oh and the MASSIVE depreciation they attract), I have little or no interest in track refugees or stuff that only comes alive when driving with complete disregard for the law and other road users, and I'm not so keen on living *that* far in the past to buy a drafty Morgan with ergonomics that would have been fine for 1930s people...

There is a reason I'm chucking loads of money on a twenty years old Chimaera... (4-5 grand worth of coilovers for starters...).

TBH the only brand new things I'd aspire to nowadays cost as much as a very nice house and listen to the name of Eagle or Singer (and I'm not even a 911 fan)... F-Types and Astons I'd let the merchant banking fraternity take a big hit on first, it's not that there will ever be a shortage of them.



Edited by 900T-R on Friday 21st March 13:04

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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Zippee said:
If TVR managed to get a good quality product that was fully certified for the US market then they may stand a chance as the brand does have a certain appeal over there.
Zippee - I live in one of the most car crazy cities in the US and work in the car business. Most people have never heard of TVR. I have an old Tasmin (1986 - the last year that TVR imported into the US). Most people assume it's a Triumph and go blank when I say TVR. A few enthusiasts have heard of it and that's about it. People who own them own cars that are 25-30 years old.

"Old" TVR would never have survived here. A 4 yr / 50,000 mile comprehensive warranty is a prerequisite and we have something called the Lemon law.... Customers will not tolerate having cars go back to the shop repeatedly. You also need to have financing and leasing options available - 1.9% for 60 months is pretty normal and is generally subsidised by the manufacturer.

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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900T-R said:
Another thing -

F-type V8S - ~295 bhp/ton, low 4s 0-60
Vantage V12 Roadster - ~295 bhp/ton. low 4s 0-60
Jag are being very conservative with their performance figures. Car feels every bit as fast as my Sagaris (albeit with less drama). I spent a few days at the Indy 500 circuit with a load of F-Types and a bunch of racing drivers last year and the consensus from them was that it was a lot quicker than the official figures suggested. Motor Trend magazine got 0-60 in 3.4 secs from a V8S.

natben

2,743 posts

230 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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unrepentant said:
What they do? They don't do anything and haven't for 8 years. The factory is gone, the know how is gone, the people are gone, TVR is gone. If anything ever makes it back into any sort of production it's no more than a TVR badge stuck on someone else's idea.

The cars they made before were great for the time but they were not built to a standard that would be acceptable for a 70 or 80k car today and they were losing money making them. And the last one was made almost a decade ago! To put it in context Jaguar were making the S Type and the X Type and the first generation XK back then. Porsche were still making the 996. The whole landscape has changed since then.
Nobody is suggesting that they make cars like they did 10-20years ago.

The ladscape has changed, If TVR produce another car then I am sure that will have chaged as well.
Lets just wait and see what they eventually bring out. If it has a TVR badge on it I am sure they will stick to the heritage of TVR by making a lightweight, fast and slightly crazy car, they have said as much in the interviews they have given. I wish them all the best and believe there is a place for something different in the sportscar market in limited numbers and below the £80k figueuer that is being banded about here, more than that and they will have a very touch time selling cars against the current competition.

smilo996

Original Poster:

2,754 posts

169 months

Friday 21st March 2014
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TVR has not done anything for several years. The same could be said of Triumph. A company that was buried by unreliable, and old fashioned designs that fewer and fewer people wanted. However try to argue that today's Triumph under John Bloor is not Triumph, well actually a million times better than the original Triumph used to be but still very clearly Triumph.

If they do it right there is no reason why they cannot enbody the character of TVR and bring it up to date. Perhaps that is why it is taking so long.

Hopefully they will build a solid reputation rather than pulling the wool over customer's eyes for so many years as being a company producing the amazing sports cars, like Porsche for example.
Until recently their only sports car would happily kill you if not driven by expertly, owe much more to VW or Audi than Porsche (924, 944). If developed in house, be unsuccessful (928, 959, 918) or not even sports cars (Pan, Cayenne, Macca).
Then again if they are able to pull the wool to that extend they will be hugely successful.

V41LEY

2,889 posts

237 months

Saturday 22nd March 2014
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unrepentant said:
Zippee - I live in one of the most car crazy cities in the US and work in the car business. Most people have never heard of TVR. I have an old Tasmin (1986 - the last year that TVR imported into the US). Most people assume it's a Triumph and go blank when I say TVR. A few enthusiasts have heard of it and that's about it. People who own them own cars that are 25-30 years old.

"Old" TVR would never have survived here. A 4 yr / 50,000 mile comprehensive warranty is a prerequisite and we have something called the Lemon law.... Customers will not tolerate having cars go back to the shop repeatedly. You also need to have financing and leasing options available - 1.9% for 60 months is pretty normal and is generally subsidised by the manufacturer.
I could not agree more with this. The US was never a big market for TVR and any sentiment that thinks it will be is fundamentally wrong. Too much competition and protection of their own products. Living in Asia - this is THE market for sportscars and supercars. If it is expensive, exclusive and luxurious and using the existing top-end dealer support networks it will sell. The big hitters here have stables of supercars so adding a bespoke small production UK produced car would work. It's a big ask though unless the budgets are there for the marketing and some sort of visibility eg Cars running in the various car series out here. The downside of this is that I think it makes the car too expensive back home. The loyal supporters of the brand are likely to be tested by prices in the region of 150k (complete guesswork I admit) for a fully developed sorted car. Interesting to reflect that Wheeler probably had it right when he attempted production in Malaysia but got the timing wrong (and probably the country as well).

Al 450

1,390 posts

220 months

Sunday 23rd March 2014
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TVR wouldn't be able to sell in the US as the potential liabilities would be too great. You need deep pockets to meet the necessary homologation requirements and costs and potential lawsuits as well as the lemon law would make it far too risky.

I can see only two routes back for TVR, the first is ultra low volume manufacture and sales to the UK and selected export markets only as a non-homologated SVA approved vehicle. The other option is to do a Caterham and find a partnership with a major OEM who will essentially badge engineer a new car into existence.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 24th March 2014
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For the UK and Europe:


900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Monday 24th March 2014
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Yawn. Not that again.

threespins

833 posts

261 months

Monday 24th March 2014
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Unrepentant is right the new jags are stunning and exceptional value for money. I can't see a new TVR coming anywhere near.

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Monday 24th March 2014
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The only car I lusted after and aspired to own was a Tamora, ever since I first saw it. (I know - weird...)

The F-Type is the first since then that I feel exactly the same about - and I do aspire to own one, one day. I would take just as much pleasure in looking at it than driving it.