Why specialists??

[R7EBO]

Is there a particular reason why virtually every TVR owner insists on using specialists for mechanicals? The nearest one to me is an hour & half away & the last time I used one I wasn't very impressed to be honest. Having owned a Leon Cupra R prior to my Tuscan, I used a small local VAG specialist (because they we're REVO map dealers, much cheaper than the dealer & better service) called Autotechnica for any work required & found them to be very professional, & most importantly (in my opinion) trustworthy!

When I got my Tuscan it was in a sorry state & I asked them if they fancied taking it on as they had never worked on one before, & since then they have done loads of work to it for me & I am over the moon with everything they've done. I think in a way it was better going to them because they pretty much went through the car with a fine tooth comb to learn their way around it, so they now know it inside out.

The list of work, to date, albeit a lot simple jobs included, is as follows:

Replaced battery
Removed, skimmed & refitted discs & pads
Replaced front shocks
Replaced handbrake cables
Replaced Clutch master cylinder
Replaced clutch slave cylinder
New rear screen
Replaced plugs & leads
Re shimmed twice
Replaced front ball joints
Door control units removed, sent for repair & refitted
Replaced clutch & release bearings
Refaced flywheel
Replaced both rear anti roll bar links & rose joints
Replaced wiper linkage
Replaced both front indicator assembly's
Removed engine
Replaced front timing chain cover
Replaced both inlet & exhaust camshafts
Replaced both half time bearings
Replaced injector seals
Refitted engine
Replaced front tyres
Replaced throttle cable
Adjusted & realigned mounting bracket on inlet manifold
Replaced seat belt
Replaced main 'cockpit' seal
Removed & plugged boot mounted aerial
Checked oil pressure
Checked valve clearances
Numerous oil & filter changes
Removed, sourced new & fitted radiator

& that's not to mention the hours upon hours spent playing with various other bits like sorting out the boot release, front bonnet release cable repair, fixing in loose lights, etc etc etc. I've probably forgot about loads of other stuff as well!

So if anyone in East Yorks wants a very good more local place to have any work done, there is an alternative!

[N7GTX]

I share your opinion about the so-called specialists, not just TVR ones but many others. When I first got my DB7 it had been serviced and looked after by a 'specialist' in W Yorks. Once I had put right everything they had messed up the car was good. The workmanship was a disgrace e.g. air filter not connected to anything, just shoved down behind the wheel arch liner.
After buying the Cerb I studied the service history and parts replacement from the invoices and can tell that a TVR 'specialist' in Yorkshire ripped off the previous owner to a fair amount of money. After breaking the bleed nipples off the calipers they said nothing until the next service when they replaced all the calipers at the customer's expense.
And a garage fairly local to me has recently started doing TVRs and calls himself a 'specialist' after a short time.

I think you have done the right thing. Finding an honest garage that is fair and does good work is hard to find these days.

[RobertoBlanco]

I guess letting so called specialist do the work can prevent "ordinary" mechanics running into problems they do not know from other cars they are normally dealing with. So if they work on TVRs only they know them inside out. I wouldn't say, that they are better mechanics in general, though.

Due to a lack of TVR specialists in my neighborhood my car goes to a guy who specialises in british cars in general, mostly mini, triumph, range rover. He has done quite some work on our cars (Tuscan/T350) and we are satisfied with how he does things. He also fixes little niggles when he finds them without us saying anything, like rearranging hoses and wires into for instance colder regions in the engine bay or changing some stainless bolts and the like.
Most repairs are pretty standard. With a lot of the parts being standard citroen, GM and whatnot almost every mechanic can do their magic if not completely unadept. Like changing fluids from engine, gearbox, diff or servicing other simple things. As we do the easier things ourselves, he normally gets the work we do not want to do or cannot do due to lack of knowledge and/or tools.

I'm not sure if this will have an impact on the value of the car. I simply don't have too many choices over here in germany and am pretty happy to have found a mechanic who knows his stuff and is willing to work on cars previously unknown to him. Quite a good fella, too.

[NCC]

I tend to agree that the important thing is finding someone who you trust.

TVR's aren't the most complicated cars in the world but as we all know, they have their idiosyncrasies, so it's good to have the help of a specialist who has seen most of these things and knows their way around the cars. I suspect that any good mechanic who is willing to take time to build their knowledge and experience, will ultimately do a good job.

It just so happens that the specialists I use also happen to be very trustworthy!

[jamieduff1981]

NCC said:

I tend to agree that the important thing is finding someone who you trust.

TVR's aren't the most complicated cars in the world but as we all know, they have their idiosyncrasies, so it's good to have the help of a specialist who has seen most of these things and knows their way around the cars. I suspect that any good mechanic who is willing to take time to build their knowledge and experience, will ultimately do a good job.

It just so happens that the specialists I use also happen to be very trustworthy!

I agree with this.

I'd rather have a non-specialist that I trusted than a specialist whom I didn't. I'm thinking of one 'specialist' in particular actually who would be behind some dodgy East London lock-up outfit guarded by a Rottweiler in the list of garages I'd try to book the car in with!!!

I do happen to use a specialist to keep up my basic service history/do anything I can't be bothered with myself. I've seen his other customers' cars in bits. His workshop is clean and well organised and every time I drop in we end up having a chat over some issue or other he's working on for someone and gawking at various car bits together. I know he knows what he's doing with these cars and I know he's too busy to invent jobs to charge me for that didn't need doing. On issues that do need doing, I know he'll get to the bottom of it quicker than most non-specialists because he's seen everything before TVRs and knows exactly where to begin chasing down some symptoms.

[R7EBO]

I'm pleased the general consensus is the same. Don't get me wrong, if I had a specialist local to me I'd consider using them depending on what I thought of them. I just don't understand why so many people travel miles miles & hours & hours to take their car to a specialist, just to have something like a service done! Nuts & bolts are nuts & bolts, oil is oil (in a fashion!) & parts are easy enough to get hold of, so why go to that trouble & extent to have it done? It comes across to me that some people won't touch a car unless it's been looked after by a specialist, but if it was me I'd just one to know that it's been done properly, not where it's been or look for a particular name on the service sheets.

I know the likes of people like Dom at Power are pretty much irreplaceable, they know everything there is to know. Also he seems to be a great guy who's happy to help & advise anyone who needs it, which is brilliant, but I wouldn't travel half way across the country to get my oil changed & a re shim. The 2 guys at Autotechnica are both Audi Master Tech's, they've won gold in 4 of the last 5 years in the Audi independent specialist awards & are 100% genuine. They are superb mechanics, & there must be hundreds of such garages around the country who are more than capable of doing nearly all work on a TVR without a problem.

Put it this way, last week my car went in to have some work done whilst I was on holiday. I had the main cockpit seal replaced, front indicator & rear fog light secured, old aerial removed removed & bunged, passenger seat removed & seat belt replaced, oil pressure checked, valve clearances adjusted, & my throttle was sticking so they took the bonnet off & stripped it, straightened it all out & put it all back together. I bought the parts & they charged me 3hrs labour to do the lot...

[Basil Brush]

R7EBO said:

It comes across to me that some people won't touch a car unless it's been looked after by a specialist, but if it was me I'd just one to know that it's been done properly, not where it's been or look for a particular name on the service sheets.

But isn't that the problem? If you're looking to buy a car and it's been serviced by someone you don't know anything about, how do you know it's been done properly? Do you just accept the seller's assurance that they are great mechanics? Throw in all the perceptions around TVR and the S6 engine and you can see why people think like that.

I'm not disagreeing with you as I've had plenty of crappy work on cars over the years by both main dealers and specialists, including some with very good reputations in owner circles. One particular highlight was a 2.2k service bill from a TVR main dealer and then my Tuscan to fail it's MOT on a number of things a couple of weeks later.

[swisstoni]

Well I feel a lot more comfortable with today's TVR specialists than with the TVR Main Dealers of old.

[R7EBO]

Personally I didn't even see any paper work before I bought mine, but then it had a coat of moss an inch thick & a carpet of grass inside it & I paid £5k for it, so I didn't really care to be honest. I was just chuffed to bits to have my name on the V5 of a TVR!

To be frank though, I couldn't give a toss about what a potential future owner might think about where it's been looked after, I know that MY car is in good hands whenever it goes in, & even if your were a potential buyer you must be able to see that if it's been back to the same place time & time again then the owner must've been happy with their work?!

Yes it might make it a little easier to sell & at best you'd maybe get an extra £500 or so for the car? Well I recently had my engine removed, a new front engine cover supplied & fitted (after a breakdown company damaged the old one), both cams replaced, re shimmed, both half time bearings replaced, they set it all up & put it all back together & it cost £500 less than you paid for that service!

It's never ran better in the 2 years I've had it than it does right now & I use the thing every single day. It's been off the road for over 10 months since I've had it whilst it's been getting 'restored' & I've still put 17k on the clock & it runs perfect, what more can you ask for?! I'm pretty damn sure I would be no better off whatsoever if I'd taken it to a specialist...

[lotus83]

for a c service on my elise i was quoted 1000 by a standard garage, a specialist familiar with the car did it for 520.00

i believe its difficult for a garage not familiar with the car to give a reasonable quote because they dont know what the job really entails and you might find certain jobs they will be reluctant to attempt.

an mot for example, phone call and they told me the car had failed its mot due to having EU spec headlamps and not UK, told to buy a new set of heap lamp units not cheap. quick look online and they are adjustable like i thought they where. Pretty sure a specialist would have just adjusted them and put the car through the mot first time without the messing about and if i wasn't as aware i could have ended up paying out for new headlamp units that arent needed.

Edited by lotus83 on Thursday 10th April 06:37

[jamieduff1981]

lotus83 said:

for a c service on my elise i was quoted 1000 by a standard garage, a specialist familiar with the car did it for 520.00

i believe its difficult for a garage not familiar with the car to give a reasonable quote because they dont know what the job really entails and you might find certain jobs they will be reluctant to attempt.

an mot for example, phone call and they told me the car had failed its mot due to having EU spec headlamps and not UK, told to buy a new set of heap lamp units not cheap. quick look online and they are adjustable like i thought they where. Pretty sure a specialist would have just adjusted them and put the car through the mot first time without the messing about and if i wasn't as aware i could have ended up paying out for new headlamp units that arent needed.

Edited by lotus83 on Thursday 10th April 06:37

This is the sort of stuff where familiarity is invaluable. I'll avoid saying "specialist knowledge" because it really is just familiarity. Same goes for most of a 12k service really. Someone who has done, say, a V8 Cerbera service dozens of times will be much more efficient with their time than someone who has to find their way around the car and find a manual for the engine for valve clearances and then find a source for new shims. If hourly rates are comparible, this will translate to a big saving.

[R7EBO]

jamieduff1981 said:

lotus83 said:

for a c service on my elise i was quoted 1000 by a standard garage, a specialist familiar with the car did it for 520.00

i believe its difficult for a garage not familiar with the car to give a reasonable quote because they dont know what the job really entails and you might find certain jobs they will be reluctant to attempt.

an mot for example, phone call and they told me the car had failed its mot due to having EU spec headlamps and not UK, told to buy a new set of heap lamp units not cheap. quick look online and they are adjustable like i thought they where. Pretty sure a specialist would have just adjusted them and put the car through the mot first time without the messing about and if i wasn't as aware i could have ended up paying out for new headlamp units that arent needed.

Edited by lotus83 on Thursday 10th April 06:37

This is the sort of stuff where familiarity is invaluable. I'll avoid saying "specialist knowledge" because it really is just familiarity. Same goes for most of a 12k service really. Someone who has done, say, a V8 Cerbera service dozens of times will be much more efficient with their time than someone who has to find their way around the car and find a manual for the engine for valve clearances and then find a source for new shims. If hourly rates are comparible, this will translate to a big saving.

Yes but that's the difference between a regular garage & a good garage, as the one I use had never touched a TVR & so spent a lot of time learning about it at no cost to myself. Any time they were unsure they did speak with the likes of Dom at Power, who was extremely helpful . The end result being that they could strip & rebuild my car now with their eyes shut & therefore they get my custom every time.

My whole point really behind this is that you don't need a specialist, despite what everyone says, If you have a good trustworthy garage that you already use. & if anyone in East Yorks wants someone closer id wholeheartedly recommend this one in Hull instead of travelling miles & miles.

[pmessling]

Whlst many a car buyer will only buy a car with a proper service history main dealer/specialist, why does it add value to the car, when having seen some of the stuff on here they are worse than taking it to a monkey.

Bar some of the specialist stuff like valve clearances and window replacement i have done most of the things on my cerbera myself. Most of it well documented on here and detailing world. I like to think i take pride in the work i do and what i have made for other members cars and that i how if i come to sell my cerb at any time that the point that the car may not have a full dealer/specialist history that it has non the less been well looked after and cared about with documentation / reciepts present.

Things like valve clearances i haven't tackled yet due to having to do the work outside. but soon to change with the purchase of a house.

[julianc]

Because I trust mine completely (X-Works) and know the Tamora will be looked after properly and not abused.

End of.

[The Surveyor]

pmessling said:

Whlst many a car buyer will only buy a car with a proper service history main dealer/specialist, why does it add value to the car,...

IMHO A full service history by a well-respected main dealer / specialist gives the buyer some confidence that the former owner cared about the car, just like a service history full of unknown stamps, or stamps by people with a flaky reputation would give little confidence. Ultimately as our cars get older, the importance of service history gets less and less, being replaced by a reliance on a specialist pre-purchase inspection.

Paul

[alex_gray255]

I just go with who I trust and who knows the car(s) I have.

Not that bothered about being a specialist, I just use the person I feel is best for the job

[RedSpike66]

TVR's are generally less sophisticated beasts than today's modern cars, with significantly less electronics.

I would imagine that what you need to look after, service, maintain a TVR is basically a very good, experienced, traditional mechanic, regardless of being a TVR specialist.

TVR specialist knowledge only really comes in to play for the very specific tweeks and fixes that have been worked out over the years to deal with the quirks and idiosyncracies of our cars, or perhaps in relation to engine rebuilds, but then again, an experienced, good engine builder who knows what he's doing, how engines work and what quality of components etc. are required for longevity etc. will do as good a job as a specialist.

TrackVRoad are TVR specialists.. but they also specialise in Lotus, and because Ian is an old school, experienced, and very, very good mechanic, he's been restoring a De Tomaso Pantera, and undertaking other major jobs like on a Ferrari TestaRossa, and old Alfa racing car and so on - it comes down to trust and experience at the end of the day.

[tvrboy55]

End of the day,no matter who you use,we are all human and we make mistakes and cockups. Are they honest enough to admit it.

[SimonKD]

R7EBO said:

Yes but that's the difference between a regular garage & a good garage, as the one I use had never touched a TVR & so spent a lot of time learning about it at no cost to myself. Any time they were unsure they did speak with the likes of Dom at Power, who was extremely helpful . The end result being that they could strip & rebuild my car now with their eyes shut & therefore they get my custom every time.

My whole point really behind this is that you don't need a specialist, despite what everyone says, If you have a good trustworthy garage that you already use. & if anyone in East Yorks wants someone closer id wholeheartedly recommend this one in Hull instead of travelling miles & miles.

You may not need to take your car to a "Specialist" but from what you say, the garage that you took your car to needed to speak to such a "Specialist" that just happened to be Dom at Power in this particular instance. It could have been any one of a number of so called "Specialists" that the garage who did the work on your car spoke to but to me it just goes to show that proper "Specialist" advice really is invaluable no matter who you are and what model of TVR you own.

Kind regards
Simon

[spitfire4v8]

+1
The irony of that situation wasnt lost on me.