Discussion
In my opinion what made TVR unique and seperate from the other small car manufactures was the fact that they produced there own engines,if TVR are going produce new cars building a new chassis and body ect then fitting a mass produced engine and trans what you have is just another car and its all been done before !!
I see no reason why the AJP V8 And AJP 6 Speed six cannot be upgraded to to bring them upto todays standards with power and reliabilty,to conclude the only way that TVR will be a TVR is to use there own power plant.
I see no reason why the AJP V8 And AJP 6 Speed six cannot be upgraded to to bring them upto todays standards with power and reliabilty,to conclude the only way that TVR will be a TVR is to use there own power plant.
900T-R said:
Good as the Corvette bits are, they are really more suited to an altogether larger car designed for wide open spaces rather than your average UK country road...
Sagaris is 72.8" wide and Corvette C6 is 72.6" wide so actually a hair's breadth narrower; and even the C7 (Stingray) is only an inch wider at 73.9". And if we're just talking the 'bits' then I've a 'Corvette' engine in the Tuscan and it fits...and actually the transmission tunnel in the Corvette is way smaller than the transmission tunnel in any recent TVR.
Up until driving the Stingray I always imagined a relaunched/re-engineered TVR as an evolution of what had come before would hit the spot. For a front-engined RWD car my Tuscan is a fabulous track tool, and I kind of imagined something like that but sanitised slightly for the road and wrapped-up in an updated Sagaris style body with a neat interior would be great. I'd have one...or at least I would have. I just think the bar has now been raised so much higher than I could ever possibly have imagined for a [relatively] reasonably priced powerful RWD sports car. TVRs only salvation (assuming they're staying in the reasonably priced powerful sports car market) is GM won't convert Stingrays to RHD and that will deter a whole load of people. Alternatively TVR could go down the premium hand-built route...but that's not what TVRs used to be about...
tvrolet said:
Sagaris is 72.8" wide and Corvette C6 is 72.6" wide so actually a hair's breadth narrower; and even the C7 (Stingray) is only an inch wider at 73.9". The 'bar' has being raised in terms of outright grip and capability, sure. What modern 'mainstream' options are, and will be, unable to replicate is the directness and intimacy a TVR (or a small number of other specialist sports cars) offer, along with a sense of occasion that to me, only Aston Martin comes close to...
If the next TVR is not going to be a fire spitting and breathtaking sculpture,
but something unexciting and common for the mass market, I would very
much prefer leaving TVR buried with the already lost legends.
If she is not going to be awarded with her own bespoke engine, it would
be a huge step backwards from the greats like Tuscan/Cerb/Sag.
but something unexciting and common for the mass market, I would very
much prefer leaving TVR buried with the already lost legends.
If she is not going to be awarded with her own bespoke engine, it would
be a huge step backwards from the greats like Tuscan/Cerb/Sag.
Griffithy said:
If the next TVR is not going to be a fire spitting and breathtaking sculpture,
but something unexciting and common for the mass market, I would very
much prefer leaving TVR buried with the already lost legends.
If she is not going to be awarded with her own bespoke engine, it would
be a huge step backwards from the greats like Tuscan/Cerb/Sag.
I'll go out on a limb and categorically state the Griffith and Chimaera built TVR, then the Cerbera & Tuscan (much as I love both of them) broke it. but something unexciting and common for the mass market, I would very
much prefer leaving TVR buried with the already lost legends.
If she is not going to be awarded with her own bespoke engine, it would
be a huge step backwards from the greats like Tuscan/Cerb/Sag.
The cars that put TVR on the map for being fire spitting and breathtaking sculptures, had a proprietary engine. It arguably sounded the best of all, too.
900T-R said:
I'll go out on a limb and categorically state the Griffith and Chimaera built TVR, then the Cerbera & Tuscan (much as I love both of them) broke it.
The cars that put TVR on the map for being fire spitting and breathtaking sculptures, had a proprietary engine. It arguably sounded the best of all, too.
I would agree 100%, but you have to look back and consider the direction TVR were heading back in the late 1990's and where the car market is now.The cars that put TVR on the map for being fire spitting and breathtaking sculptures, had a proprietary engine. It arguably sounded the best of all, too.
Back in the late 1990's for TVR to move forward they had to shake off the last of the 'kit-car' image, and continue the momentum started by the Griffith by finally shedding the parts-bin image. They went the route of the AJP8 and Speed6, which were awesome but fragile. Nowadays it is much more common and accepted for mainstream manufacturers to use their engines across the range as well as letting others use their lumps.
For example, back in the 90's Ferrari and Porsche used their own engines and that was the market TVR were aiming at. Now Zonda uses a Merc AMG, Rolls Royce, Morgan and Wiesmann use / used a BMW engines, Gumbert and Spiker use the Audi V8, as well as the wider use of the LS engines in Vauxhalls etc. There isn't the stigma associated with engine sharing that there was back then.
If there is a new TVR coming, it doesn't have to have it's own engine to be considered credible by the motoring press or buying public, so it why take the risk!
Paul
I think that perhaps one of the draws of TVR was the fact that they were within the reach of 'normal' people - you could have supercar performance for at least half the cost - a metaphorical up yours to the big sports car manufacturers.
I have a gut feeling that the new models will be competing directly on price to similar cars (R8's, 911's etc.)- if that is the case, I am not sure if that'll work. TVR's were always a niche within a niche. A decade on, that niche has got smaller, especially for raw, balsy UK made sports cars that cater for people who like to be just a little different.
I have a gut feeling that the new models will be competing directly on price to similar cars (R8's, 911's etc.)- if that is the case, I am not sure if that'll work. TVR's were always a niche within a niche. A decade on, that niche has got smaller, especially for raw, balsy UK made sports cars that cater for people who like to be just a little different.
chris watton said:
I have a gut feeling that the new models will be competing directly on price to similar cars (R8's, 911's etc.)- if that is the case, I am not sure if that'll work. TVR's were always a niche within a niche. A decade on, that niche has got smaller, especially for raw, balsy UK made sports cars that cater for people who like to be just a little different.
Yes, but that might be a blessing rather than a curse - the big problems came when TVRs suddendly became flavour of the month and grew to an output of 1,800 or so, for which neither the factory nor the organisation (not least financially) was properly equipped. Then, of course, came the backlash from PWs penny pinching and punters who had little idea of what they actually bought into...Thing is, you won't make money building cars anyway - I'd sooner restrict output to a sustainable level with the leanest production organisation possible and build a waiting list, and capitialise on the brand by making a proper fist of generating aftersales, aftermarket, motorsport and incentive/merchandising revenu streams...
Bluntly put, you don't want customers who are merely after the biggest bang for their buck - they'll be more trouble than its worth.
You want the ones who want a raw, analogue, intimate sports car experience in a package that's just practical enough to be viable as a second car instead of a third and fourth, folks who have done the modern German performance car thing and found it less than stimulating but don't want an olde-worlde Morgan or leaky, drafty classic with no grip or brakes either - in short the more 'mature' or 'advanced' enthusiast who has a better understanding of what they're getting and are out of the 'Top Trumps' game.
Which is the kind of customer TVR sold to overseas, anyway.
At the moment there are TVRs out there from a couple of grand to 130 grand. Ok, the latter is a one off (one in three off), but you get my drift. They are all second hand cars, and the prices cover a wide range of budgets.
I own a £10k Chimaera. I would never even be considering buying one of the new TVRs, any more than I would buy a new 911 or R8. In the dim distant future I might aspire to buying a 10 year old one with my pension. Sadly the new car is not about what I want to see in a TVR.
The target for the new TVR is people with the budget and the desire to buy a brand new British sports car that is a bit left field, and they are going to be the people presently buying Sagarises, Tuscan Convertibles, or having specials such as the Vulcan Tuscan built. People with spare cash between £40,000 and £100,000 and SWMBO not eyeing up a new extension or a world cruise. The same people who would buy a used Aston, A Gumpert, a used Ferrari, a 911 GT3. Or have three or four pristine TVRs in their garage.
Indeed, I know of at least one multi TVR owner with £100,000 worth of cars, and a Sag owner with a Ferrari 360 Spider for alternate Sundays.....and they are just people I have met.
I wish TVR well with the new car and look forward to lusting after owning one....still 19 inside, you know
I own a £10k Chimaera. I would never even be considering buying one of the new TVRs, any more than I would buy a new 911 or R8. In the dim distant future I might aspire to buying a 10 year old one with my pension. Sadly the new car is not about what I want to see in a TVR.
The target for the new TVR is people with the budget and the desire to buy a brand new British sports car that is a bit left field, and they are going to be the people presently buying Sagarises, Tuscan Convertibles, or having specials such as the Vulcan Tuscan built. People with spare cash between £40,000 and £100,000 and SWMBO not eyeing up a new extension or a world cruise. The same people who would buy a used Aston, A Gumpert, a used Ferrari, a 911 GT3. Or have three or four pristine TVRs in their garage.
Indeed, I know of at least one multi TVR owner with £100,000 worth of cars, and a Sag owner with a Ferrari 360 Spider for alternate Sundays.....and they are just people I have met.
I wish TVR well with the new car and look forward to lusting after owning one....still 19 inside, you know
chris watton said:
I think that perhaps one of the draws of TVR was the fact that they were within the reach of 'normal' people - you could have supercar performance for at least half the cost - a metaphorical up yours to the big sports car manufacturers.
I have a gut feeling that the new models will be competing directly on price to similar cars (R8's, 911's etc.)- if that is the case, I am not sure if that'll work. TVR's were always a niche within a niche. A decade on, that niche has got smaller, especially for raw, balsy UK made sports cars that cater for people who like to be just a little different.
I know what you are saying but when you think about he much they were in not convinced that was such a strong case. I have a gut feeling that the new models will be competing directly on price to similar cars (R8's, 911's etc.)- if that is the case, I am not sure if that'll work. TVR's were always a niche within a niche. A decade on, that niche has got smaller, especially for raw, balsy UK made sports cars that cater for people who like to be just a little different.
Grimps were £20k+ and tracked things like the SLK and Boxster when they came out. The T cars, I think, went passed those to be just under base 911s.
Definitely cheaper and with more performance but not sure it was a chasm or gulf.
With performance cars establishing themselves pretty solidly at and over the £100k level then while we will be shocked to see a Tiv RRP at £80k for example, it would still be in line with how it was 25 years ago!!!!
Cars are just very expensive of you can't churn them out en mass mostly by robots. And there are a lot more GBPs in circulation today meaning they are worth a lot less than a decade ago.
QBee said:
I own a £10k Chimaera.
I did too (actually, it was £6K before I brought it over). Now it's more like a £30K Chimaera... 
QBee said:
The target for the new TVR is people with the budget and the desire to buy a brand new British sports car that is a bit left field, and they are going to be the people presently buying Sagarises, Tuscan Convertibles, or having specials such as the Vulcan Tuscan built. People with spare cash between £40,000 and £100,000 and SWMBO not eyeing up a new extension or a world cruise. The same people who would buy a used Aston, A Gumpert, a used Ferrari, a 911 GT3. Or have three or four pristine TVRs in their garage.
Bang on. Numbers would be anywhere between a few dozen and a couple hundred cars per annum. Everything above and beyond would be a Smolenskiesque pipe dream. As I said, the money would come from after you sold the cars (and tending to the existing car parc)...
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff