Discussion
TA14 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Something to bear in mind if wanting to sell 200 cars a year is that this isn't much less than what Lotus manage to sell across their whole range in the UK each year.
Another example of the lack of financial viability of 200 cars a year.But if you add up how many £50k+ TVRs are sold each year currently then that gives you a fair indication of the size of the viable 'enthusiast' market and rather starkly highlights why TVR must appeal to non enthusiasts to stand any chance of selling almost any cars.
And anyone wanting a sub £50k TVR really needs to go and look at Ginetta to see what sort of product that gives you. It's not pretty, that's for sure.
Just to gauge numbers here, how many of you genuinely could afford to and subsequently would sink 80k into whatever new car Les Edgar finally manages to produce? I’d say theres a lot of people on this forum without the money to actually do so, though I’m sure you may say you would buy one if you could – thus you wouldn’t be in a position to help the new company.
Those that do have the money – would you risk that much on a new and revived sportscar brand? With all the stigma that still surrounds the brand from outside the tiny TVR community? It’s a heck of a lot of money to risk on something that could easily go under again 12 months down the line. So how many does that leave to actually purchase one?
Personally I wouldn’t. I love the current crop of TVRs but this new resurrection to me is TVR in name only. I wish any new start up well but I just feel this one is doomed before it’s even begun though I’m happy to eat my words at a later date if wrong.
Those that do have the money – would you risk that much on a new and revived sportscar brand? With all the stigma that still surrounds the brand from outside the tiny TVR community? It’s a heck of a lot of money to risk on something that could easily go under again 12 months down the line. So how many does that leave to actually purchase one?
Personally I wouldn’t. I love the current crop of TVRs but this new resurrection to me is TVR in name only. I wish any new start up well but I just feel this one is doomed before it’s even begun though I’m happy to eat my words at a later date if wrong.
remkingston said:
But will the Sagaris go up or down in value if a new TVR is released?
The values of all existing cars will increase if a new TVR appears.It's been seen before when a marque has been revived it reminds people of what went before and if they can't afford to buy a new one they start scouring the classifieds and the prices rise accordingly across the board.
Cards on the table, I will be delighted and interested to see a new TVR launched. That said I will not be buying one because my Griff 500 is a keeper and frankly is quick enough for me. I also have other cars in the garage and if anything I want a pre-war car next (Aston or Lagonda) to add variety to the collection. But then I doubt chaps like me are the target market.
Zippee said:
Just to gauge numbers here, how many of you genuinely could afford to and subsequently would sink 80k into whatever new car Les Edgar finally manages to produce? I’d say theres a lot of people on this forum without the money to actually do so, though I’m sure you may say you would buy one if you could – thus you wouldn’t be in a position to help the new company.
Those that do have the money – would you risk that much on a new and revived sportscar brand? With all the stigma that still surrounds the brand from outside the tiny TVR community? It’s a heck of a lot of money to risk on something that could easily go under again 12 months down the line. So how many does that leave to actually purchase one?
Personally I wouldn’t. I love the current crop of TVRs but this new resurrection to me is TVR in name only. I wish any new start up well but I just feel this one is doomed before it’s even begun though I’m happy to eat my words at a later date if wrong.
I've spent a little bit more on my perfect TVR. It's perfect because it has 4 seats. Like many 40 odds, I have kids. Many others in this demographic just aren't in the market anyway as you have a large mortgage and even school fees to pay so lobbing £80k at an impractical toy isn't what many do. Those that do have the money – would you risk that much on a new and revived sportscar brand? With all the stigma that still surrounds the brand from outside the tiny TVR community? It’s a heck of a lot of money to risk on something that could easily go under again 12 months down the line. So how many does that leave to actually purchase one?
Personally I wouldn’t. I love the current crop of TVRs but this new resurrection to me is TVR in name only. I wish any new start up well but I just feel this one is doomed before it’s even begun though I’m happy to eat my words at a later date if wrong.
The 30-40 demographic appear to be very heavily ensconced in the German brands where cheap finance and clarity of lease deals etc make the purchase of a fast VAG more logical.
Below 30, there is a real problem as there is no real money.
Above 55 is where all the wealth is, it's where all the spare time is, it's where the kids have gone, mortgage cleared and the desire for a premium 2 seater lies.
Every premium manufacturer at present has two focusses. Firstly, selling in Asia and secondly selling to pensioners in the West.
If TVR doesn't do what everyone else is doing and target the only viable market in the West, the over 55 then one really has to ask how they stand a chance of selling a good number of units?
The two things that kill the whole idea
1) It not built in Blackpool. Now that may be a completely non rational sentimental reason but its sort of core to the brand
2) Regulation and other red tape will prevent the sort of cars from the Peter Wheeler era ever being produced again.
Personally I would like to see TVR die rather than have its name diluted. Our current T350's, Tuscans, Griffs, Cerbera's etc are dinosaurs. A Porsche Cayman is going to run rings around them. However a Cayman is a fridge really, just a piece of white goods that you won't have an emotional connection with. Something to be bought and thrown away in a few years. With the world the way it is I cannot see how TVR can produce cars that won't be a 'fridge' if they are to make a profit.
1) It not built in Blackpool. Now that may be a completely non rational sentimental reason but its sort of core to the brand
2) Regulation and other red tape will prevent the sort of cars from the Peter Wheeler era ever being produced again.
Personally I would like to see TVR die rather than have its name diluted. Our current T350's, Tuscans, Griffs, Cerbera's etc are dinosaurs. A Porsche Cayman is going to run rings around them. However a Cayman is a fridge really, just a piece of white goods that you won't have an emotional connection with. Something to be bought and thrown away in a few years. With the world the way it is I cannot see how TVR can produce cars that won't be a 'fridge' if they are to make a profit.
The cars don't need to be bigger or heavier, they don't need all the electronic crap & they certainly don't need to produce large numbers. They need to make it attractive, fast and British - exactly as they did before, but with a much better build quality and a proven engine.
Have you seen the stats for Nobel with their M600? And I quote...
The 2,800-pound (1,300 kg) M600 can accelerate from 0–62.1 mph (100 km/h) in 3.5 seconds and requires only another 4 seconds to achieve 100 mph (160 km/h). It has over 1G of grip on the skid pad. The brake disks in the Noble M600 are steel. The Noble comes with no ABS or ASM and TC as those features will be optional, making the Noble M600 a pure driver's car. The British supercar will cost around £300,000 when it is launched, and only 50 will be made annually.
A crazy amount of money and the performance figures aren't even that exciting in modern terms! It's not even very nice to look at, but someone must be buying it?! & sod the new Mustang, yes it's cheap but it's still nothing like a TVR, so why you would consider that as an alternative I don't know.
Personally I think there is only one other car that fits the bill & you need to look towards to see what can be achieved... Have none of you ever heard of an Alfa 4C?? A car that costs less than £50k and is probably the best drivers car available anywhere in the world right now. It's small, lightweight stunningly beautiful & is the only car that would make me think twice before buying a Sag - if I could afford one! That's what they need to aim for in my opinion, and if people want ABS etc then offer it as an option. & maybe stick a bit bigger motor in it
Have you seen the stats for Nobel with their M600? And I quote...
The 2,800-pound (1,300 kg) M600 can accelerate from 0–62.1 mph (100 km/h) in 3.5 seconds and requires only another 4 seconds to achieve 100 mph (160 km/h). It has over 1G of grip on the skid pad. The brake disks in the Noble M600 are steel. The Noble comes with no ABS or ASM and TC as those features will be optional, making the Noble M600 a pure driver's car. The British supercar will cost around £300,000 when it is launched, and only 50 will be made annually.
A crazy amount of money and the performance figures aren't even that exciting in modern terms! It's not even very nice to look at, but someone must be buying it?! & sod the new Mustang, yes it's cheap but it's still nothing like a TVR, so why you would consider that as an alternative I don't know.
Personally I think there is only one other car that fits the bill & you need to look towards to see what can be achieved... Have none of you ever heard of an Alfa 4C?? A car that costs less than £50k and is probably the best drivers car available anywhere in the world right now. It's small, lightweight stunningly beautiful & is the only car that would make me think twice before buying a Sag - if I could afford one! That's what they need to aim for in my opinion, and if people want ABS etc then offer it as an option. & maybe stick a bit bigger motor in it
R7EBO said:
The cars don't need to be bigger or heavier, they don't need all the electronic crap & they certainly don't need to produce large numbers. They need to make it attractive, fast and British - exactly as they did before, but with a much better build quality and a proven engine.
Have you seen the stats for Nobel with their M600? And I quote...
The 2,800-pound (1,300 kg) M600 can accelerate from 0–62.1 mph (100 km/h) in 3.5 seconds and requires only another 4 seconds to achieve 100 mph (160 km/h). It has over 1G of grip on the skid pad. The brake disks in the Noble M600 are steel. The Noble comes with no ABS or ASM and TC as those features will be optional, making the Noble M600 a pure driver's car. The British supercar will cost around £300,000 when it is launched, and only 50 will be made annually.
A crazy amount of money and the performance figures aren't even that exciting in modern terms! It's not even very nice to look at, but someone must be buying it?! & sod the new Mustang, yes it's cheap but it's still nothing like a TVR, so why you would consider that as an alternative I don't know.
Personally I think there is only one other car that fits the bill & you need to look towards to see what can be achieved... Have none of you ever heard of an Alfa 4C?? A car that costs less than £50k and is probably the best drivers car available anywhere in the world right now. It's small, lightweight stunningly beautiful & is the only car that would make me think twice before buying a Sag - if I could afford one! That's what they need to aim for in my opinion, and if people want ABS etc then offer it as an option. & maybe stick a bit bigger motor in it
I thought the Alfa 4C was quite big for a small 2-seater, isn't also as wide as a Range Rover? not very British B-Road friendly..Have you seen the stats for Nobel with their M600? And I quote...
The 2,800-pound (1,300 kg) M600 can accelerate from 0–62.1 mph (100 km/h) in 3.5 seconds and requires only another 4 seconds to achieve 100 mph (160 km/h). It has over 1G of grip on the skid pad. The brake disks in the Noble M600 are steel. The Noble comes with no ABS or ASM and TC as those features will be optional, making the Noble M600 a pure driver's car. The British supercar will cost around £300,000 when it is launched, and only 50 will be made annually.
A crazy amount of money and the performance figures aren't even that exciting in modern terms! It's not even very nice to look at, but someone must be buying it?! & sod the new Mustang, yes it's cheap but it's still nothing like a TVR, so why you would consider that as an alternative I don't know.
Personally I think there is only one other car that fits the bill & you need to look towards to see what can be achieved... Have none of you ever heard of an Alfa 4C?? A car that costs less than £50k and is probably the best drivers car available anywhere in the world right now. It's small, lightweight stunningly beautiful & is the only car that would make me think twice before buying a Sag - if I could afford one! That's what they need to aim for in my opinion, and if people want ABS etc then offer it as an option. & maybe stick a bit bigger motor in it
PuffsBack said:
The two things that kill the whole idea
1) It not built in Blackpool. Now that may be a completely non rational sentimental reason but its sort of core to the brand
2) Regulation and other red tape will prevent the sort of cars from the Peter Wheeler era ever being produced again.
Personally I would like to see TVR die rather than have its name diluted. Our current T350's, Tuscans, Griffs, Cerbera's etc are dinosaurs. A Porsche Cayman is going to run rings around them. However a Cayman is a fridge really, just a piece of white goods that you won't have an emotional connection with. Something to be bought and thrown away in a few years. With the world the way it is I cannot see how TVR can produce cars that won't be a 'fridge' if they are to make a profit.
I totally share the sentiment. To answer that we need to ask ourselves, what defines a TVR? what made us all own one and drive one? A british made sport cars made in Great Britain which have no ABS, No traction control, No airbag, No sat nav. I may have a small penius to drive a big engine car as people will claim, but at least I have balls to drive a TVR with no driver's aid. So there you go, big balls but small willie!!!!1) It not built in Blackpool. Now that may be a completely non rational sentimental reason but its sort of core to the brand
2) Regulation and other red tape will prevent the sort of cars from the Peter Wheeler era ever being produced again.
Personally I would like to see TVR die rather than have its name diluted. Our current T350's, Tuscans, Griffs, Cerbera's etc are dinosaurs. A Porsche Cayman is going to run rings around them. However a Cayman is a fridge really, just a piece of white goods that you won't have an emotional connection with. Something to be bought and thrown away in a few years. With the world the way it is I cannot see how TVR can produce cars that won't be a 'fridge' if they are to make a profit.
It is a bit like Schumacher's come back. I was and still am a big fan of him, but IMHO it was far better for him to leave as 7 times champion rather than a come back without any significants limelight and people are now questioning? although you could argue he and Ross Brawn contributed the Mercedes Benz's success today. That is another topic for a different day.
I'm sure if Morgan can survive there is still a place for TVR to have a go at it.
If I remember correctly, Germany was one of their biggest markets...go figure that one...
Morgan offer something traditional and individual, and gentlemanly. I just hope the "new TVR" is equally individual, utterly insane, and absolutely nothing like the other fridges currently out there.
From what I can gather, the new TVR owners want to stick to the original ethos, so here's hoping!
If I remember correctly, Germany was one of their biggest markets...go figure that one...
Morgan offer something traditional and individual, and gentlemanly. I just hope the "new TVR" is equally individual, utterly insane, and absolutely nothing like the other fridges currently out there.
From what I can gather, the new TVR owners want to stick to the original ethos, so here's hoping!
DonkeyApple said:
If TVR doesn't do what everyone else is doing
IMNSHO that's the only realistic chance they have. Trying to beat Jaguar, Porsche, Aston at their own game... it's not going to happen is it. Luckily they're only chasing a tiny fraction on the numbers and they very probably know they won't earn the money on the new cars (even the big guys don't achieve anything like a decent margin - with the exception of Porsche) - they build new cars for TVR to be a viable brand. The money is in aftersales, aftermarket and branding/incentive/motorsport support activities.I would humbly submit the over-55s with money already have their rolling zimmer frames, and if they want to put something next to those, it will more likely compete with big bikes & classic cars than a new 911.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff