IT Contracting is nearly dead!
Discussion
The same as anyone in the Building trade in the late eighties early nighties i'm afraid.
As someone else said "supply and demand"
Most school leavers(male) dont want to get there hands dirty? and want to work in IT etc,which Im not Knocking.You takes ur pick.
If it carrys on like this manual workers will be worth a there wait in gold,just like IT workers have had it for the last few years.
Simon
As someone else said "supply and demand"
Most school leavers(male) dont want to get there hands dirty? and want to work in IT etc,which Im not Knocking.You takes ur pick.
If it carrys on like this manual workers will be worth a there wait in gold,just like IT workers have had it for the last few years.
Simon
quote:
The same as anyone in the Building trade in the late eighties early nighties i'm afraid.
As someone else said "supply and demand"
Most school leavers(male) dont want to get there hands dirty? and want to work in IT etc,which Im not Knocking.You takes ur pick.
If it carrys on like this manual workers will be worth a there wait in gold,just like IT workers have had it for the last few years.
Simon
Think they already are down here (sorry IT)
quote:
Well this is great...... I'm studying to go into bloody IT! Cisco networks to be precise. This is'nt what I need to be hearing
Is it a waste of time carrying on then??
Hey tivhead, that wall that you're banging your head against – learn to build a decent one – you'll make a fortune. Bricklayers (good 'uns are like gold dust).
A pint at PH4 to the first person to tell me the name of that bloke who was in all the papers in the 70s who built his own house superquick by inventing a 'superhod' to take about 40 bricks up the ladder in. He was a bit of a 'mini celeb' then –
Won't mean anything to anybody under 40 though!
quote:
A pint at PH4 to the first person to tell me the name of that bloke who was in all the papers in the 70s who built his own house superquick by inventing a 'superhod' to take about 40 bricks up the ladder in. He was a bit of a 'mini celeb' then –
His name was Max, but he was known as Superhod. Used to earn more than the brickies on his site and was featured on BBC's Nationwide program as well as the press.
Cheers,
JSG.
I read this in the Metro a couple of weeks back, that a lot of Surrey based plumbers are making 70k+ a year.
All I know is that they are bloody dificult to get hold of, and when ou do, they don't always turn up.
David
All I know is that they are bloody dificult to get hold of, and when ou do, they don't always turn up.
David
quote:
I think plumbers are earning more than IT people at the moment... and if you are a builder in Surrey, then that's where the real money is...
Also I believe Oil & Gas industry is struggling at the moment as all of the uni leavers are going into IT.... straight forward supply and demand I think..
Me? Was contract, went permy 3 years ago, just made redundancies in my place so not exactly sitting pretty.
It feels like it's picking up to me. I finished my last contract last november when my daughter was born and I couldn't find anything else until June. I've got 4 weeks left of this contract but I've been phoned a number of times a week over the last month whereas earlier this year no one called me for 5 months. The agencies I speak to sound more cheerful too. Depends largely on your skill set though, I'm mainly java/j2ee.
Mark
Mark
As an IT contract recruiter to the financial market, I/we are certainly suffering. I know of a great many contractors out there who have been looking in excess of 6 months+.
Many contractors are turning to us for advise on what they should train up on next. SAP, Peoplesoft, Oracle Financials seem to be the flavour of the month. I'm simply advising people if they are going to the effort of re-training they should get learn something outside of IT, like becoming a carpenter.
I think we are going to see a turn in the market and tradition 100 year old trades will be the ones earning the money and with the security.
L10 TVR
Many contractors are turning to us for advise on what they should train up on next. SAP, Peoplesoft, Oracle Financials seem to be the flavour of the month. I'm simply advising people if they are going to the effort of re-training they should get learn something outside of IT, like becoming a carpenter.
I think we are going to see a turn in the market and tradition 100 year old trades will be the ones earning the money and with the security.
L10 TVR
Sorry I have not posted since I started this discussion! I believe things will pick up! I don't think it will be like the good old days
than after lunch back to ! I keep hearing that in October things may pick up! I hope so! One thing I will not do is take a permie job! I thought about it, than I read a few ad's on Jobserve and a few said no X-Contractors
Everyone keep your chin up and when it's back to normal we can all meet in Browns or the Norfolk Village(if you have not been in there fcuk me is it rough) and waste this cash and laugh at permies!
I hope it's soon! Best Wishes to everyone who is struggling, and I if I can help anyone just email me!
than after lunch back to ! I keep hearing that in October things may pick up! I hope so! One thing I will not do is take a permie job! I thought about it, than I read a few ad's on Jobserve and a few said no X-Contractors Everyone keep your chin up and when it's back to normal we can all meet in Browns or the Norfolk Village(if you have not been in there fcuk me is it rough) and waste this cash and laugh at permies!
I hope it's soon! Best Wishes to everyone who is struggling, and I if I can help anyone just email me!There WILL be a recovery, these things are cyclical. It may take a few years yet. Here's what I think, feel free to disagree!
Pre millennium, lots of money was put into moving to ERP systems to get replace legacy systems which were not "Y2K compliant". Quite often the selection process was hurried or flawed, and the systems chosen somewhat less than ideal. Implementations similarly were rushed - remember IT doesn't normally work to such inflexible deadlines! - and like the pension industry in the 80's there was a degree of mis-selling going on.
Y2K came and went with little impact. Inevitably there was a feeling that the IT industry had performed some elaborate sting and gotten away with it - which was to a greater degree correct.
Post Y2K, the effects of the less than ideal ERP systems started to bite, as firms now had systems that didn't quite fit the business. Budgets had been blown however, and with a gloomy economic downturn coupled with lots of media "dot com gone wrong" frenzy, IT was the last thing to be allocated extra budget. Companies are now resigned to living with their mistakes (indeed, many are still in denial that mistakes were made, and unbelievably many are still trotting out the 'change business practice to fit the system' dogma which makes no sense to anyone with a brain).
At this time New Labour shafted the contracting industry with IR35. Contractors became more trouble than they were worth to firms cautious of rumoured employment rights comebacks and tired of contract negotiation hassles. The market is flooded with 'cheap imports' - sorry, that may not be totally PC but its the truth - and outsourcing to India becomes one of the latest management fashions. What little budget is available is heading overseas, either in pure outsourcing or in bodyshopping of imported labour. "Its a global economy guys."
Increasingly now big business is being run by a posse of twenty/thirty something MBA's, to whom deskilling is GOD, and who wouldn't recognise inherent worth or business advantage if it slapped them round the face. ERP fits with this mindset (if that what it can be called) and they will persevere with it. Companies will flounder for a few more years until these people start to actually learn something of value.
I'd predict about 3/4 years of doldrums before the market will come about face. There will be a realisation that success comes from exploiting your unique advantages, rather than from striving to be average in everything. Hopefully academia will see the errors of its ways in the decline of the economy before we hit third world status. Monolithic systems will be ousted, and systems tailored to specific business needs will again come to the fore as new IT technologies make development of bespoke systems cheaper and more reliable. Inevitably, as with any upturn, supply will not match demand and the contract market will again flourish.
IMHO!
Pre millennium, lots of money was put into moving to ERP systems to get replace legacy systems which were not "Y2K compliant". Quite often the selection process was hurried or flawed, and the systems chosen somewhat less than ideal. Implementations similarly were rushed - remember IT doesn't normally work to such inflexible deadlines! - and like the pension industry in the 80's there was a degree of mis-selling going on.
Y2K came and went with little impact. Inevitably there was a feeling that the IT industry had performed some elaborate sting and gotten away with it - which was to a greater degree correct.
Post Y2K, the effects of the less than ideal ERP systems started to bite, as firms now had systems that didn't quite fit the business. Budgets had been blown however, and with a gloomy economic downturn coupled with lots of media "dot com gone wrong" frenzy, IT was the last thing to be allocated extra budget. Companies are now resigned to living with their mistakes (indeed, many are still in denial that mistakes were made, and unbelievably many are still trotting out the 'change business practice to fit the system' dogma which makes no sense to anyone with a brain).
At this time New Labour shafted the contracting industry with IR35. Contractors became more trouble than they were worth to firms cautious of rumoured employment rights comebacks and tired of contract negotiation hassles. The market is flooded with 'cheap imports' - sorry, that may not be totally PC but its the truth - and outsourcing to India becomes one of the latest management fashions. What little budget is available is heading overseas, either in pure outsourcing or in bodyshopping of imported labour. "Its a global economy guys."
Increasingly now big business is being run by a posse of twenty/thirty something MBA's, to whom deskilling is GOD, and who wouldn't recognise inherent worth or business advantage if it slapped them round the face. ERP fits with this mindset (if that what it can be called) and they will persevere with it. Companies will flounder for a few more years until these people start to actually learn something of value.
I'd predict about 3/4 years of doldrums before the market will come about face. There will be a realisation that success comes from exploiting your unique advantages, rather than from striving to be average in everything. Hopefully academia will see the errors of its ways in the decline of the economy before we hit third world status. Monolithic systems will be ousted, and systems tailored to specific business needs will again come to the fore as new IT technologies make development of bespoke systems cheaper and more reliable. Inevitably, as with any upturn, supply will not match demand and the contract market will again flourish.
IMHO!
Also I believe Oil & Gas industry is struggling at the moment as all of the uni leavers are going into IT.... straight forward supply and demand I think..
(Quote)
You IT guys have restored my faith in your kind, by the sound of things you drive TVRs, bad experience of IT nerds, went out with an IT girl and her circle of friends revolved around fellow nerds with the topic of converstaion most nights was servers falling over (Yawn) and worst still they could not understand why I drove TVRs instead of beamers etc !!!! OK call me intolerant but she got binned.
Anyway Oil and Gas industry, yep skills shortage but IT seems OK we are not too sure how Brown's new tax on the oil companies is going to effect the industry, but gut feel is that it is bad (Thanks New Labour)
Anyway if you fancy a move to sunny Scotland, clean air, superb TVR roads minimum speed camera's (So far) try Outsource IT or EDM they maybe on the web.
(Quote)
You IT guys have restored my faith in your kind, by the sound of things you drive TVRs, bad experience of IT nerds, went out with an IT girl and her circle of friends revolved around fellow nerds with the topic of converstaion most nights was servers falling over (Yawn) and worst still they could not understand why I drove TVRs instead of beamers etc !!!! OK call me intolerant but she got binned.
Anyway Oil and Gas industry, yep skills shortage but IT seems OK we are not too sure how Brown's new tax on the oil companies is going to effect the industry, but gut feel is that it is bad (Thanks New Labour)
Anyway if you fancy a move to sunny Scotland, clean air, superb TVR roads minimum speed camera's (So far) try Outsource IT or EDM they maybe on the web.
quote:
There WILL be a recovery, these things are cyclical. It may take a few years yet. Here's what I think, feel free to disagree!
Pre millennium, lots of money was put into moving to ERP systems to get replace legacy systems which were not "Y2K compliant". Quite often the selection process was hurried or flawed, and the systems chosen somewhat less than ideal. Implementations similarly were rushed - remember IT doesn't normally work to such inflexible deadlines! - and like the pension industry in the 80's there was a degree of mis-selling going on.
Y2K came and went with little impact. Inevitably there was a feeling that the IT industry had performed some elaborate sting and gotten away with it - which was to a greater degree correct.
Post Y2K, the effects of the less than ideal ERP systems started to bite, as firms now had systems that didn't quite fit the business. Budgets had been blown however, and with a gloomy economic downturn coupled with lots of media "dot com gone wrong" frenzy, IT was the last thing to be allocated extra budget. Companies are now resigned to living with their mistakes (indeed, many are still in denial that mistakes were made, and unbelievably many are still trotting out the 'change business practice to fit the system' dogma which makes no sense to anyone with a brain).
At this time New Labour shafted the contracting industry with IR35. Contractors became more trouble than they were worth to firms cautious of rumoured employment rights comebacks and tired of contract negotiation hassles. The market is flooded with 'cheap imports' - sorry, that may not be totally PC but its the truth - and outsourcing to India becomes one of the latest management fashions. What little budget is available is heading overseas, either in pure outsourcing or in bodyshopping of imported labour. "Its a global economy guys."
Increasingly now big business is being run by a posse of twenty/thirty something MBA's, to whom deskilling is GOD, and who wouldn't recognise inherent worth or business advantage if it slapped them round the face. ERP fits with this mindset (if that what it can be called) and they will persevere with it. Companies will flounder for a few more years until these people start to actually learn something of value.
I'd predict about 3/4 years of doldrums before the market will come about face. There will be a realisation that success comes from exploiting your unique advantages, rather than from striving to be average in everything. Hopefully academia will see the errors of its ways in the decline of the economy before we hit third world status. Monolithic systems will be ousted, and systems tailored to specific business needs will again come to the fore as new IT technologies make development of bespoke systems cheaper and more reliable. Inevitably, as with any upturn, supply will not match demand and the contract market will again flourish.
IMHO!
I think it may be faster than 3-4 years! But I agree with every thing else you have said!
quote:
Also I believe Oil & Gas industry is struggling at the moment as all of the uni leavers are going into IT.... straight forward supply and demand I think..
(Quote)
You IT guys have restored my faith in your kind, by the sound of things you drive TVRs, bad experience of IT nerds, went out with an IT girl and her circle of friends revolved around fellow nerds with the topic of converstaion most nights was servers falling over (Yawn) and worst still they could not understand why I drove TVRs instead of beamers etc !!!! OK call me intolerant but she got binned.
Anyway Oil and Gas industry, yep skills shortage but IT seems OK we are not too sure how Brown's new tax on the oil companies is going to effect the industry, but gut feel is that it is bad (Thanks New Labour)
Anyway if you fancy a move to sunny Scotland, clean air, superb TVR roads minimum speed camera's (So far) try Outsource IT or EDM they maybe on the web.
We are not nerds
Most of us drink beer, watch strippers each curry and fight! Than it's back to work! I use to love it! I just hope things will get back to how they where!
:drink
Interesting to read this post. Tivhead - carry on with CISCO but make sure you get in the Security and VOIP side of things as Security is King in paranoid world (similar to Y2K paranoia but this time has some credence!) and VOIP will take off when companies have got over belt-tightening. There are still bread and butter IT skills out there, and as Alex (L10TVR - our erstwhile Surrey organiser) says, financials is always a good market. ORACLE will never die - I fear, and all these "expensive" packages for business intranets will only get bigger. Personally, I've been in the business 13 years and you have to keep up-to-date as much as poss, but nowadays straight forward CISCO engineers are 10 a penny , just like architects were 10 years ago - lots ended up working for free or re-training.
I took Norman Tebbit's advise and got on my bike and headed to the Eastern European markets which were good for the mid-90's but have also taken a hit. One has to be flexible and willing to have a few sensible plans/ options.
Come on chaps - we are ALL TVR owners - so it's logical that we have good minds, capable hands and are realistic non-bullsh*tters . . .I think if we met in our gleaming motors and cried into our beers - we wouldn't really get too much sympathy from onlookers, but at least we wouldn't be as hated as if we gathered around Boxster's or Mercs!
Just keep the faith . . maybe the TVR owners should opt for a Mason's type organisation to "help each other out"!
Interesting to read this post. Tivhead - carry on with CISCO but make sure you get in the Security and VOIP side of things as Security is King in paranoid world (similar to Y2K paranoia but this time has some credence!) and VOIP will take off when companies have got over belt-tightening. There are still bread and butter IT skills out there, and as Alex (L10TVR - our erstwhile Surrey organiser) says, financials is always a good market. ORACLE will never die - I fear, and all these "expensive" packages for business intranets will only get bigger. Personally, I've been in the business 13 years and you have to keep up-to-date as much as poss, but nowadays straight forward CISCO engineers are 10 a penny , just like architects were 10 years ago - lots ended up working for free or re-training.
I took Norman Tebbit's advise and got on my bike and headed to the Eastern European markets which were good for the mid-90's but have also taken a hit. One has to be flexible and willing to have a few sensible plans/ options.
Come on chaps - we are ALL TVR owners - so it's logical that we have good minds, capable hands and are realistic non-bullsh*tters . . .I think if we met in our gleaming motors and cried into our beers - we wouldn't really get too much sympathy from onlookers, but at least we wouldn't be as hated as if we gathered around Boxster's or Mercs!
Just keep the faith . . maybe the TVR owners should opt for a Mason's type organisation to "help each other out"!
bet you're in the pub already..Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff