IT Contracting is nearly dead!
Discussion
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:drink
Interesting to read this post. Tivhead - carry on with CISCO but make sure you get in the Security and VOIP side of things as Security is King in paranoid world (similar to Y2K paranoia but this time has some credence!) and VOIP will take off when companies have got over belt-tightening. There are still bread and butter IT skills out there, and as Alex (L10TVR - our erstwhile Surrey organiser) says, financials is always a good market. ORACLE will never die - I fear, and all these "expensive" packages for business intranets will only get bigger. Personally, I've been in the business 13 years and you have to keep up-to-date as much as poss, but nowadays straight forward CISCO engineers are 10 a penny , just like architects were 10 years ago - lots ended up working for free or re-training.
I took Norman Tebbit's advise and got on my bike and headed to the Eastern European markets which were good for the mid-90's but have also taken a hit. One has to be flexible and willing to have a few sensible plans/ options.
Come on chaps - we are ALL TVR owners - so it's logical that we have good minds, capable hands and are realistic non-bullsh*tters . . .I think if we met in our gleaming motors and cried into our beers - we wouldn't really get too much sympathy from onlookers, but at least we wouldn't be as hated as if we gathered around Boxster's or Mercs!
Just keep the faith . . maybe the TVR owners should opt for a Mason's type organisation to "help each other out"!
I like that idea
I'm still getting calls about jobs in London! I have no problem passing on other people's information! It's a bad time for most I would be pleased to help! I like the masons type idea! Instead of a dodgy handshake, we could recognize each other by being pissed at our meeting place!
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We are not nerdsMost of us drink beer, watch strippers each curry and fight! Than it's back to work!
I use to love it! I just hope things will get back to how they where!
Contains errorsbet you're in the pub already..
Caught again!
I love drinking me!!! Ya me best mate you are!!
Last time I was working in London I was on the again! In All Bar One just down from the Old Bailey! When I was walking back to work, one of the Police check points had stopped a fairly new 911! The guy was talking away to the Cop, and I noticed why he had been stopped!
Guess what
His tax disk was out of date!
Laugh?
I nearly asked the copper if he wanted to go for a! Sorry 911 driver's but trying to get out of paying tax in Central London!
again! In All Bar One just down from the Old Bailey! When I was walking back to work, one of the Police check points had stopped a fairly new 911! The guy was talking away to the Cop, and I noticed why he had been stopped! Guess what His tax disk was out of date! Laugh? I nearly asked the copper if he wanted to go for a! Sorry 911 driver's but trying to get out of paying tax in Central London!It'll be interesting to see how things develop. There is a significant long term IT skills shortage in the economy, but how/when it will be filled is not obvious. Unless you've got good quality strategic thinking going on within senior management and in the boardroom then project quality will be pants and opportunities to exploit IT get be missed. It's all well and good having a talented pool of devs and system engineers to call on, but until IT literate people have got promoted into senior business positions we're stuffed.
The fact that IT contracting was such a boom area is really symptomatic of how incompetent businesses were at dealing with IT. No other professional services operate on a one-man-band contracting basis. Over the medium term I'd expect to see lots of smallish IT service firms being set up so that medium sized firms can hire higher-end IT skills in the same way that they hire lawyers, accountants, architects etc. as and when required.
As in-house IT management gets a better, IT will be seen less like black magic and certain areas of IT will become core skills areas for almost every firm. And as these in-house skills become more comoditised, there will be far less scope for contractors to fill these roles.
Maybe
The fact that IT contracting was such a boom area is really symptomatic of how incompetent businesses were at dealing with IT. No other professional services operate on a one-man-band contracting basis. Over the medium term I'd expect to see lots of smallish IT service firms being set up so that medium sized firms can hire higher-end IT skills in the same way that they hire lawyers, accountants, architects etc. as and when required.
As in-house IT management gets a better, IT will be seen less like black magic and certain areas of IT will become core skills areas for almost every firm. And as these in-house skills become more comoditised, there will be far less scope for contractors to fill these roles.
Maybe
ATG
Your argument doesn't factor in the pace of IT development. Lawyers and the like deal with a known commodity - ok so case law develops, but precedent is always where its at - but in IT the pace of technological advance doesn't ever slow down.
I don't believe IT is in any danger of becoming a "known commodity" for quite some time yet. The push of ERP was touted as being just that, I don't see the evidence that it solved anything.
I don't buy that contracting was a side product of corporate mismanagement. It was an inevitable product of market forces, those same market forces that at the moment are biting back.
Your comments about senior IT management are right on the button. Good senior IT people often have a better understanding of how businesses tick than the people running them, yet the power stays in the hands of the bean counters.
>> Edited by philshort on Friday 2nd August 11:39
>> Edited by philshort on Friday 2nd August 14:23
Your argument doesn't factor in the pace of IT development. Lawyers and the like deal with a known commodity - ok so case law develops, but precedent is always where its at - but in IT the pace of technological advance doesn't ever slow down.
I don't believe IT is in any danger of becoming a "known commodity" for quite some time yet. The push of ERP was touted as being just that, I don't see the evidence that it solved anything.
I don't buy that contracting was a side product of corporate mismanagement. It was an inevitable product of market forces, those same market forces that at the moment are biting back.
Your comments about senior IT management are right on the button. Good senior IT people often have a better understanding of how businesses tick than the people running them, yet the power stays in the hands of the bean counters.
>> Edited by philshort on Friday 2nd August 11:39
>> Edited by philshort on Friday 2nd August 14:23
www.it.jobserve.com/jobserve/JobDetail.asp?jobid=652A70E2896E24AF
If you want a laugh, read the rate on this! But I bet this will be filled by 12! How sad
!!!!!
If you want a laugh, read the rate on this! But I bet this will be filled by 12! How sad
!!!!! Gotta laugh at that! But there is a major span on the market anyway, one guy left here for Reuters on 48K salary, hard graft but nice package
Bottom line is IT must pay for businesses to invest in the people etc. (Unless you are NHS, imagine consulting for an annual billion pound p*ss up the wall - sorry EDS-type people out there!)
Though I rarely did contract work, it's laughable at how your hopes are raised, and there are so many false dawns . . . sound familiar? Well - if you're on commission you gotta throw CVs at the client! Anybody know HOW MANY people might have a copy of your CV at the moment? Possibly hundreds . . . .
We shall pull through and we'll all be on Tuscan R's in two years time . . .
Bottom line is IT must pay for businesses to invest in the people etc. (Unless you are NHS, imagine consulting for an annual billion pound p*ss up the wall - sorry EDS-type people out there!)
Though I rarely did contract work, it's laughable at how your hopes are raised, and there are so many false dawns . . . sound familiar? Well - if you're on commission you gotta throw CVs at the client! Anybody know HOW MANY people might have a copy of your CV at the moment? Possibly hundreds . . . .
We shall pull through and we'll all be on Tuscan R's in two years time . . .
quote:Factor in IR35, employers National Insurance, Employees National Insurance, Corporation Tax, VAT (depending on whether that rate is inclusive or exclusive of VAT) and accountants fees and your're left with about half that.
£13 per hour x 11 hours per day (it's a 12 hour shift) = £143 per day x 5 days a week = £715 per week x 48 weeks a year = £34320 p.a.
Also, 48 weeks is pushing it a bit, unless you don't take a lot of holiday as you have to factor in public holidays. I generally calculate on 46 weeks to be on the safe side.
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It's hardly a hard job though, some 18 year old techie out of college should be able to do this. £35 pa isn't too bad if your 18.
Reuters and Triarch? 18 and out of college? It's still a crap rate, and maybe it's just me, but I personally don't know any 18 year that could do this! I've lectured part-time on off in IT, and this is way beyond most 18 year old! Unless they have the work experience, and if they had that why would they want to earn £13/Hour for 3 months! It's crap! I wouldn't care but the same agency is advertising a similar role for better money!
I'm off for a
again! My mission today is to find some 18 year old college girl techie's (I have some old students in mind too)
and check out their experience and skill levels personally. I will than pass the information on!
Come on guys we need these dare I say it nerds (Only joking) who would I call when my PC craps out and I cannot get onto to PH.
I have a number for Outsource IT if anyone requires it just e-mail me but I will be out of the office this afternoon as I am meeting all my IT mates for beers and interesting server talk.
Have a good weekend all
I have a number for Outsource IT if anyone requires it just e-mail me but I will be out of the office this afternoon as I am meeting all my IT mates for beers and interesting server talk.
Have a good weekend all
zippy500, please don't tar us all with the same brush
I left permanent employment in 1994, and the big difference between myself and many IT contractors is that (unless the client has no requirements specification) I work on a fixed price (job) basis, ie the risk is with me. Also I have built up my own clients and have never used agencies (to find work or for contact staff). I have never had no work to do and currently have several contractors (also on fixed price arrangements) working for me so that larger jobs can be facilitated for clients.
You make your own way through life and those who rely on third parties (agencies) to find their income, should get out more and be preapred to work for a fixed price... or is that just too risky?
davidy
I left permanent employment in 1994, and the big difference between myself and many IT contractors is that (unless the client has no requirements specification) I work on a fixed price (job) basis, ie the risk is with me. Also I have built up my own clients and have never used agencies (to find work or for contact staff). I have never had no work to do and currently have several contractors (also on fixed price arrangements) working for me so that larger jobs can be facilitated for clients.
You make your own way through life and those who rely on third parties (agencies) to find their income, should get out more and be preapred to work for a fixed price... or is that just too risky?
davidy
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About time you PC people learnt to live in the real world and found reality. Bunch of overpaid primadonna's as you are.
PC? What's that mean?
I hope you are being sarcastic! If you think we are overpaid you should look into it more!! You might be surprised! I've always lived in the real world! I think if you read most of the other posts, you will realise that everyone else is too, and they have genuine concerns about their future, and where and when the next £ will come from. Trust me, when in this situation everyone live in the real world!
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