My TVR dream

Author
Discussion

jamieduff1981

8,025 posts

141 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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That could be an ideal or a terrible time to buy depending on your point of view. Many start to get used (a lot) less around that time of year because of increasingly cold and damp roads, so it wouldn't be until the following spring that you would be able to find out how the car can accelerate, for example. On the other hand sales tend to slow down then too so you may get a needy seller.

It's not so much the lack of driver aids that you're going to notice when you drive it, it's more the directness of the steering and the very sharp throttle response. You'll find yourself working the throttle during overtakes to prevent wheelspin and choose your rate of acceleration, whereas in most normal cars (even ones considered nippy like 3.0 V6 saloons etc) you just bury your foot in the carpet and wait for the car to speed up.

There's an immediacy to the way a TVR responds which you're unlikely to be accustomed to. It's brilliant, but buying in October you won't really get to enjoy any of that during the winter months. They're ok to drive in winter, but you have to mimic normal cars with your driving style!

Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

110 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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Thanks Jamie, a useful point to consider. I'm not going to risk buying from a private seller as I feel I'm going to need a warranty so I'm not sure whether dealership prices fluctuate based on weather! I hadn't fully considered what people meant by "direct" but i'm getting a better understanding thanks to your explanation about acceleration. The cars are definitely beginning to sound like monsters that the owners either need to tame or be enslaved to so I am expecting an amusing challenge - I try to drive quite frugally having once got 41.5mpg from my 3 litre BMW which I'm quite proud of.

Milky400

1,960 posts

179 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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Don't discounted private sellers and choose your dealers well. I bought from a well respected dealer and wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. I was lucky in that the engine started to go on the way home from collecting it, warranty covered £1000, so In my eyes, pretty worthless. I did get a full refund albeit a cheque, but I wasn't offered anything extra for all the travelling and time (4weeks) I wasted and it certainly wasn't easy getting the refund, also he was extremely rude and made it out as though he was doing me a favour, sure the courts wouldn't have seen it that way.

Once returned to said dealer he tried selling it that same day knowing there were some very serious engine and dangerous chassis issues (as confirmed by two very well known outfits) with the car, telling the punter it was just traded in. I went private, paid £1000 less for a 18 month newer car in much better condition. Just be careful with what dealers are offering and correspond in writing, back up calls with confirmed emails.

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

130 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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Willtl said:
I'm not going to risk buying from a private seller.
I have always had the same view buying cars private,but since joining PH I would have no issue whatsoever about buying from a member of the TVR forum,in fact i'm leaning towards the theory that it's the best option.

I only found out about Piston heads just after my latest TVR purchase 20 months ago,buying my car from a dealer advertised on Classic Car and AT.

Now on my 3rd TVR i'm learning more about them and what to look for and how a good example should drive,i'm completely useless regarding the spanner side of things though.

Sounds like you have plenty of time and if you stick around on the TVR forum you will discover there are some amazing helpful people knocking about who will go out their way to help. (It's in their nature as well as their blood)




Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

110 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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TVRJAS said:
I have always had the same view buying cars private,but since joining PH I would have no issue whatsoever about buying from a member of the TVR forum,in fact i'm leaning towards the theory that it's the best option.
Although I wouldn't expect someone from PH to deliberately rip me off, if there is a problem 6 months on it needs to be sorted at my cost. A couple of the dealerships I am looking at offer 1 or 2 year warranties, covering wear and tear. I'll need to thrash out the terms to make sure they are what they say they are, but paying a bit more for some peace of mind is necessary at this stage.

chris watton

22,477 posts

261 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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Willtl said:
Although I wouldn't expect someone from PH to deliberately rip me off, if there is a problem 6 months on it needs to be sorted at my cost. A couple of the dealerships I am looking at offer 1 or 2 year warranties, covering wear and tear. I'll need to thrash out the terms to make sure they are what they say they are, but paying a bit more for some peace of mind is necessary at this stage.
I would imagine that, with a 10+ year old car, a dealership wouldn't be much help to you if you had a problem 6 months down the line.

Some look at the purchases in a couple of ways - buy very cheap and then sort the car yourself, or buy an already sorted car, like perhaps this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...

I think the latter would be the cheaper alternative if you intend to get the car up to spec.

The engine upgrade, re-trim and Nitron shocks would be around £20k on top of the purchase price of the car..


Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

110 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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chris watton said:
I would imagine that, with a 10+ year old car, a dealership wouldn't be much help to you if you had a problem 6 months down the line.
As I said, some offer a 2 year warranty so I need to understand this covers everything.

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

130 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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It's why I added this bit.

"Sounds like you have plenty of time and if you stick around on the TVR forum you will discover there are some amazing helpful people knocking about who will go out their way to help. (It's in their nature as well as their blood)"

If you're not sure what to look out for then I have seen previously that a very kind PH member who lives close to you will go and view the car with you so that you don't buy a lemon.(For a few beer tokens)

I understand your view and is the same reason why I purchased mine from a dealer and obtained a 6 month warranty. I had just a couple of small niggles which rose their head over the 6 months and the dealer agreed to sort them all out at the end of the 6 months which they honoured. But the few niggles wouldn't of added up anywhere close to the extra premium buying from a specialist(But maybe I was just lucky)

All i'm saying is 20 months ago when looking for a car I skipped every private advert,if I was to change my car now for a Tuscan/T350 I would now include looking at private since being a member on PH.

But it has to be said if I was buying a Tuscan/T350 "private" I wouldn't touch it unless I've seen it's had a rebuildread As it's been pointed out they haven't all had problems but for my piece of mind I would rather buy a 50k miles rebuild car that a 18k non rebuild onerolleyes

Which ever route you decide to take(And it sounds you are stuck to your guns) one thing for certain is you're in for some very happy and exciting car searchingthumbup

Edited

Just to add that if I spotted the right car in the colour combination i'm seeking and the right speck I would pay that extra to get the car and be quite happy to buy from a specialist.


Edited by TVRJAS on Friday 20th March 12:57

mk1fan

10,523 posts

226 months

Friday 20th March 2015
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willtl,

The first thing to determine with regards to any warranty is who is underwriting the policy.

Using Powers engine warrnty as an example as it's unrelated to car sales. Powers underwrite this warranty themselves. So if the company goes bang (no pun intended) so does the warranty. I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that Powers is in financial difficulties its just an example.

I know of one TVR specialist who has not stood by their warranty on a drivetrain failure. Indeed, my last update was that court papers were being prepared.

There is no guarantee that any car is going to be fault free, just make sure you're happy with the validity of any warranty before paying a dealer premium.

Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

110 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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I had a fairly lengthy chat with a dealer yesterday and the warranty they offer is for 2 years, but maximum limit per claim is £2k which meant that should I be unlucky and need an engine rebuild, I'd be picking up most of the cost.

During the discussion he made it fairly clear that if I did buy a TVR I would have to expect problems. He said 90% of the time it would be OK, but I would encounter oddities like windows opening and possibly the car not starting. Is this the typical TVR experience and I should expect that in between each service there will always be problems? I guess my biggest concern over this is whether I hit a problem that means it is not possible to drive the car as the closest dealership to me is probably around 60 miles away.

One thing he mentioned that really concerned me was the process for starting from cold - he said something about that if the engine cuts out (I assume if stalled) from cold I won't be able to get it started again without assistance (something about the type of spark plugs). Is this true and if so, is it likely to be a problem I will experience?

Following on from this he also said that once started you should drive it immediately rather than let it idle. This probably sounds like a stupid question, but what does this mean? Will I be able to leave the car running whilst I close the garage? If I get onto a main road shortly after I start it and hit traffic meaning I'm idling, will this be a problem?

What is the minimum time/distance I can drive before it is safe to turn off the engine and be able to start it again?

Targarama

14,635 posts

284 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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Don't shoot me down in flames here, but Willtl, I'm not sure a TVR is right for you. I suspect you're looking for something with more mainstream reputation, that is possibly less likely to need tinkering with, possibility is more reliable (not that Porsches etc. are necessarily that reliable).

These cars are all getting on now. A warranty company is not daft, they know there is a reasonable chance a Speed Six engine will go bang compared with other more mainstream marques. Much better to save the money and create a rainy day fund.

Stalling after a cold start means the engine floods. Exactly like my BMW. However my BMW runs like its on 4 cylinders (it has 6) when I restart. On the TVR you just need to put the throttle pedal to the floor when restarting and it is fine. This cuts off the fuel supply and enables the car to start. You can switch off/restart after driving just a few hundred metres, it's only a problem if you're moving the car off the driveway etc.


Edited by Targarama on Sunday 22 March 08:56

alex_gray255

6,313 posts

206 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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Get yourself a Porsche or an Aston, mate. I think they would suit you better biggrin

RobertoBlanco

265 posts

130 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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Willtl said:
One thing he mentioned that really concerned me was the process for starting from cold - he said something about that if the engine cuts out (I assume if stalled) from cold I won't be able to get it started again without assistance (something about the type of spark plugs). Is this true and if so, is it likely to be a problem I will experience?

Following on from this he also said that once started you should drive it immediately rather than let it idle. This probably sounds like a stupid question, but what does this mean? Will I be able to leave the car running whilst I close the garage? If I get onto a main road shortly after I start it and hit traffic meaning I'm idling, will this be a problem?

What is the minimum time/distance I can drive before it is safe to turn off the engine and be able to start it again?
I stalled the engine on a rare occasion just a few days ago while setting back from my drive way. Could start it instantly just like any other car. The engine was started from cold btw.

He might be right about idling from cold. But, again, that goes for all engines basically. TVR recommended to keep the engine revs to 1500 prm after a cold start for 5-10 seconds to support oil getting to the outlet side. The oil support bores outlet side where removed from the original design. Hence the recommendation, since oil pump flow rate is dependent on engine revs. Completely harmless and usefull advice. And this is exactly what i do.

Not to put you off, but talking about starting from cold: The engine sounds and feel horribly from cold. All the fluids need to be warmed up to really get her going. But again, you cannot compare TVRs to any modern car. Simple as that.
But I love the whole experience, just BECAUSE it has that classics feel. Starting with the procedure of the needles spinning on ignition, the whirrrr of the fuel pump when disabling the immobilizer and then the big roooaaar when the engine awakens from slumber. Fantastic! You just have to love it!

TVR Cambs

188 posts

120 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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I have no doubt that every TVR model serves it's ups and downs but the good times so outweigh the bad. I had a Chimaera 4.0 for 9 years (TVR Centre) and in that time averaged 2k miles a year, mostly used from March to October. Always garaged, drove it in all weather conditions (torrential rain at Goodwood one year roof never leaked)and it was pretty low maintenance. Fantastic car which gave such thrills, return journey to Geneva motor show and didn't miss a beat. The V8 engines sounds great, mine was reliable and never failed to start. Serviced every 12 months at a cost of approx. £500. This then gave me the confidence to buy a T350C as I wanted something more raw. Everyone will have their own opinion on dealers, I found Tony at HHC to be honest and trustworthy. The T350 will cost me more money for servicing and parts but I bought it because I need to own one before I die. It's as simple as that and so far it's left me escatcaic on each occasion and that's just based on me looking at it in my garage never mind the drive it gives me!!

If you've waited all these years to buy a TVR then you should test drive the models you like, visit a few dealers in person and if you're still excited by the prospect then just buy one. They are a car like no other. The advice on this site will always help before and during ownership. Life's too short, you will regret it the most if you don't at least try it... Good luck.

Cats

994 posts

175 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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If it is something that you have always wanted and lusted after then you just have to do it don't you? Otherwise you just prolong the pain.
I was like you Willtl and felt I needed the safeguard of a warranty.
There is a specialist in the south that offers very good warranties which they cover (not backed by an insurance cover)
Their cars are higher priced but in my experience gave me the peace of mind that I wanted (we are all different) but I think that was worth the extra, to me anyway.
At the outset they said don't expect BMW/Audi quality or you will be disappointed. Once you get your head around they are hand built and pretty much unique you then realise that you have to search out the one for you.
That particular dealership has a pretty big fleet of cars for sale and will let you drive them which is what you need to do.
I used their warranty several times but I live within an hours drive and the dealer was faultless but granted I didn't need a rebuild, they were mostly just silly niggles. I would buy from them again without hesitation.

Regarding the cold starting foibles - they are just things to bear in mind and perhaps I have been lucky but as long as you drive it with mechanical sympathy most of it is common sense. After all they are big engines that draw in lots of fuel and air so if you stall it sure there is going to be lots of fuel in there to cause problems. Get it serviced properly by a reputable outfit and you will come to understand the car and the mechanical side even if you don't get the spanners out yourself.
They are all fast and very light so they will be very different from any mainstream car to drive but you wouldn't floor it on a bend or coming straight off a roundabout would you. Treat it like playing with a bear and you will be fine - poke it in the face with a stick and it'll rip your head off!

PGNCerbera

2,935 posts

167 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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2 years warranty when they cover 2k max is a bit of a joke.

OP, I would suggest getting yourself down to Str8six to have a chat with Jason and Chas. Proper nose to tail warranty - engine rebuild included - and the cars will be prepped beautifully. Ideal scenario for a first timer.

Dont give up and enjoy the hunt.

PeteB

35 posts

267 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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I was in a very similar position to you about 14 years ago (blimey time flies by!). Had wanted a TVR ever since my days as a paper boy when every morning I would see a white 450 seac start up and rumble past and I would just sit there on my Raleigh Grifter (a fine work horse for delivering papers I should add!) in awe. When I was finally in a position to be able to buy one, I did exactly what the advice was on here. Read this forum to death, joined the TVRCC, drove a load of cars to get a feel for different conditions, and even bought Steve Heaths manual. I wanted a chimaera as it was in budget and I've always liked that shape and the rover V8. I had a Corrado VR6 at the time and was travelling a lot around the country doing a bit of kart racing. I loved the Corrado, but wanted to scratch the TVR itch and so started looking for one. I was also about to move to London so needed something that I could leave outside and it would work in London traffic. A week before I left for London, I picked up my Mercedes SLK and the TVR option was shelved again! When it came to the crunch I bottled it and went with reliability and peace of mind. That didn't work out though as the Merc had loads of issues, and was not in the same league performance wise as the Corrado. So all in all a crap decision!

I then decided I needed to get something with some pace again, and did the TVR rounds again and by this time I'd moved out of London and into the leafy suburbs of Berkshire. Perfect for the dream to finally come true. But once again I let it pass me by again and I can't quite remember why. I think it was because TVR was about to go pop, and so the element of uncertainty put me off again. I Had just met my future wife, she had her own car, we had no kids and the timing would have been perfect. But I also discovered M cars and plumped for an E46 M3. It was awesome. A world apart from anything previous, had the power of a TVR, handled brilliantly and never missed a beat. It was the best of both worlds. Then the kids turned up so I kept the E46 for 6 years, had an E92 for 3 and just got an F10 M5 at the end of last year.

The M5 is simply too capable, it commands respect when you push it when the road is anything but bone dry and warm but you are at warp speed before you realise because all the electronic gizmos allow you to drive it so much quicker than you would dare hustle a TVR along the road. And there is the point, for all the capability of modern performance cars, whilst great fun they are becoming too clinical in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I love the M5, it does everything brilliantly but when the sun comes out I still find myself browsing through the Chimaera classifieds and I still have Steve Heaths manual on the bookshelf.

My point with all this is that you seem to be at a point I was all those years ago. So the above hopefully outlines what can happen if you don't just bite the bullet and go and do it. The other option that has not been suggested is why not hedge your bets? Buy something sensible for a daily driver and then go and get a Chimaera to at least enter TVR ownership, before you go for the latter models. From what I understand most Chimaeras are now sorted for most Gremlins and so it's less of a minefield than it once was. 30k will allow you to do this easily. If I had the space, I'd keep the M5 and have a Chimaera for sunny days at the weekends.


Englishman

2,220 posts

211 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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Willtl said:
I had a fairly lengthy chat with a dealer yesterday and the warranty they offer is for 2 years, but maximum limit per claim is £2k which meant that should I be unlucky and need an engine rebuild, I'd be picking up most of the cost.
Yes, some warranties are better than others. I know of two dealers that would cover the full cost of an engine rebuild.

Willtl said:
During the discussion he made it fairly clear that if I did buy a TVR I would have to expect problems. He said 90% of the time it would be OK, but I would encounter oddities like windows opening and possibly the car not starting. Is this the typical TVR experience and I should expect that in between each service there will always be problems? I guess my biggest concern over this is whether I hit a problem that means it is not possible to drive the car as the closest dealership to me is probably around 60 miles away.
Most things that 'happen' on TVR's are an easy self fix, often without spanners, but unless you like tinkering I wouldn't recommend one for you.

Willtl said:
One thing he mentioned that really concerned me was the process for starting from cold - he said something about that if the engine cuts out (I assume if stalled) from cold I won't be able to get it started again without assistance (something about the type of spark plugs). Is this true and if so, is it likely to be a problem I will experience?
What absolute rubbish. They usually start fine cold or hot. But if you do get too much fuel in the cylinders somehow all you need to do is open the throttle a small amount and then turn the key or press the button again until it fires up.

Willtl said:
Following on from this he also said that once started you should drive it immediately rather than let it idle. This probably sounds like a stupid question, but what does this mean? Will I be able to leave the car running whilst I close the garage? If I get onto a main road shortly after I start it and hit traffic meaning I'm idling, will this be a problem?

What is the minimum time/distance I can drive before it is safe to turn off the engine and be able to start it again?
It means don't leave the car idling for long periods from cold as matter of course as that will increase engine wear long-term. This is good advice for all cars! Closing the garage will be fine. No minimum safe time/distance, but always good to get an engine up to temperature on a journey.

Willtl

Original Poster:

135 posts

110 months

Sunday 22nd March 2015
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alex_gray255 said:
Get yourself a Porsche or an Aston, mate. I think they would suit you better biggrin
Unfortunately not. My dream car has always been a TVR and is the first car that comes to mind in discussions of "What car would you have if money was no limit?". To be honest, if I wasn't considering a TVR I'd just stick with the cars I have.

As a few recent posters have mentioned, it is clear I want one and you do only live once. Although I've come on here to ask questions and already contacted a dealer, I'm kind of sticking my fingers in my ears and thinking "la la la, still buying a TVR" when I hear negative stuff. I guess I'm looking for some peace of mind but at the same time knowing a TVR will be mine.

The way I see it is that worst case, I get the TVR stuck on my drive or I'm out for a ride one day and have broken down at the side of the road waiting for the RAC. But guess what? Running or not, I'm still the one with the TVR smile

tobeee

1,436 posts

269 months

Monday 23rd March 2015
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I read all the start-up procedure/idling etc stuff when I was dreaming about buying my first TVR, and it did make me panic a bit, and wonder whether I could bare the stress every time I jumped in it. However, AS SOON AS I bought one and drove it off the seller's drive, I never thought about it again. The start-up routine becomes second nature immediately, and the idling was never an issue because I didn't think my neighbours would appreciate the earthquake for more than a few seconds at 5am each day! Just buy one quick so you can get comfortable with it ready for the Summer!