TVR Parts Network - new twist

[chris watton]

m4tti said:

Although technically speaking, the higher the Rev range the stiffer the spring and the greater pressure required to compress it. Have we now got speed sixes doing 14k rpm


So if anything those shims would be exceed the specification required in a car engine.

Is that why this happens?:

Tvr Power said:

Cheap and cheerful shim kits are beginning to fail after a very short period of time

Dom

[m4tti]

Chris so from looking at that, you know that shim didnt exhibit that wear condition due to having an entirely incorrect clearance, rather than anything to do with in-appropriate case hardening/through hardening. Which obviously you'd know all shims have?

[Gazzab]

Maybe get them sent off for metallurigcal examination to evidence the manufacturing issue.

http://www.element.com/services-index/metallurgica...

[chris watton]

m4tti said:

Chris so from looking at that, you know that shim didnt exhibit that wear condition due to having an entirely incorrect clearance, rather than anything to do with in-appropriate case hardening/through hardening. Which obviously you'd know all shims have?

What I do know for sure is that you seem to have some beef with Powers, and everything that RG does is brilliant.

I on the other hand do not agree, and have always been happy with the service I get from Dom, and I do trust him. I know you don't, but that really doesn't concern me.

[m4tti]

chris watton said:

What I do know for sure is that you seem to have some beef with Powers, and everything that RG does is brilliant.

I on the other hand do not agree, and have always been happy with the service I get from Dom, and I do trust him. I know you don't, but that really doesn't concern me.

Massively incorrect. Quite happy to show you the parts I've ordered from Dom which are fitted to my car, have no beef what so ever. I like picking the best parts for the job simple!

I also like ensuring that we are dealing with real facts, as it's quite easy for the majority of people to be mis-lead. I also like threads to be based on facts for the future readership. I think demonstrating an element of stewardship adds value to such threads.

[Tvr Power]

Gazzab said:

Maybe get them sent off for metallurigcal examination to evidence the manufacturing issue.

http://www.element.com/services-index/metallurgica...

The Ball Indentation Hardness test (ISO 2039-1; DIN 53456) KTM shims tested at 76 rockwell "WRONG"

This is why Power manufactures there own shims with the correct hardness

Dom

[SPS]

coco79 said:

So essentially you will be held to ransom in terms of 'Power' parts, costs of servicing and ancillary work to maintain your warranty..

Edited by coco79 on Wednesday 27th May 13:37

A point of view but what about the push from"TVR" downwards to the specialists!
They want to control the wholesale and retail supply chain and thus the pricing policy from source to end user - US!!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen a "contract" offered to a specialist and it is - shall I say - poorly formatted and one could even say overly restrictive.
Of course on of the main issues that we all face both as specialists and consumers is the apparent poor quality of products being copied/produced in the far east!
I agree with Dom - all he is trying to do is protect his hard earned brand values and future viability as a top class privately owned engineering/servicing business.
Good luck to him and the other specialists who have not caved in.

[N7GTX]

Tvr Power said:

Andy_mr2sc said:

Guys I think there is a considerable amount of scaremongering going on here. Do you all seriously think with all the time, effort and money being put in to the new TVR group they are going to start using sub standard parts that will potentially damage the cars or their engines. There are some big players in the group and I can't see companies like STR8SIX and APM risking their impeccable reputation by signing up to poor quality parts.
I fully understand Powers making that decision; if they are signing the warranty they understandably want full control of the parts fitted and service checks made to their engines. This however doesn't suddenly make everybody else's work or parts substandard. It is obviously a tactical business decision as much if not more than a parts concern and should be taken that way.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1318979

This is not scaremongering this is fact

Dom

It should be remembered that any component can fail at any time on any engine. Relying on the evidence of a poor shim does not make all the other parts automatically worse.

I also don't think the post was saying a particular company was scaremongering, rather some of the posts by contributors on here were. Well that's how I understood it and was the point I was agreeing with. I was not agreeing that Powers (Dom) was doing this.

[m4tti]

Tvr Power said:

The Ball Indentation Hardness test (ISO 2039-1; DIN 53456) KTM shims tested at 76 rockwell "WRONG"

This is why Power manufactures there own shims with the correct hardness

Dom

Dom think that's the ISO test for plastics.
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumb...

[Zippee]

SPS said:

coco79 said:

So essentially you will be held to ransom in terms of 'Power' parts, costs of servicing and ancillary work to maintain your warranty..

Edited by coco79 on Wednesday 27th May 13:37

A point of view but what about the push from"TVR" downwards to the specialists!
They want to control the wholesale and retail supply chain and thus the pricing policy from source to end user - US!!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen a "contract" offered to a specialist and it is - shall I say - poorly formatted and one could even say overly restrictive.
Of course on of the main issues that we all face both as specialists and consumers is the apparent poor quality of products being copied/produced in the far east!
I agree with Dom - all he is trying to do is protect his hard earned brand values and future viability as a top class privately owned engineering/servicing business.
Good luck to him and the other specialists who have not caved in.

How will you be held to ransom? Dom still has a list of approved service agents across the country, you don't have to travel all the way to Coventry

[ukdj]

Andy_mr2sc said:

Guys I think there is a considerable amount of scaremongering going on here. Do you all seriously think with all the time, effort and money being put in to the new TVR group they are going to start using sub standard parts that will potentially damage the cars or their engines. There are some big players in the group and I can't see companies like STR8SIX and APM risking their impeccable reputation by signing up to poor quality parts.
I fully understand Powers making that decision; if they are signing the warranty they understandably want full control of the parts fitted and service checks made to their engines. This however doesn't suddenly make everybody else's work or parts substandard. It is obviously a tactical business decision as much if not more than a parts concern and should be taken that way.

Dom is just protecting his interests as he needs to, to be able to offer & support such a warranty - end of story period.

I think the issue for customers boils down to the chequered history of parts quality & customer service offered previously by a company who have been amalgamated into tvr-parts, the debate that followed the announcement of tvr-parts formation was a marmite situation of those that do & those that don't, mostly based on their experiences with the previous company, I'm guessing Dom is firmly in the don't category most probably due to issues with the deal TVR offered.

As far as impecable reputations go I'd suggest you ask around a little harder, as with all things PH you only get to hear the positives, all negativity is banned and therefore opinion is unbalanced, ask around off forum and you'll find the balance. I can personally point you in the direction of several ** VERY DISGRUNTLED ** customers who have rebuild/warranty issues with a certain supposedly reputable dealer!

Nobody gets it right all of the time, but it is how they deal with the situation after that defines them, I guess only time will tell if they have got it right or not .....

[ukdj]

coco79 said:

So essentially you will be held to ransom in terms of 'Power' parts, costs of servicing and ancillary work to maintain your warranty..

How does this differ from all mainstream car manufacturers who "hold you to ransom" with their parts, servicing & warranty terms?

[gacksen]

chris watton said:

What I do know for sure is that you seem to have some beef with Powers, and everything that RG does is brilliant.

I on the other hand do not agree, and have always been happy with the service I get from Dom, and I do trust him. I know you don't, but that really doesn't concern me.

not everbody that is asking questions has a problem with somebody and if needed TVR Power can speak for himself as seen !

when talking about shims the KTM discussion is quite old. If the KTM shims are to soft whats the HRC value of the TVR Power shims ?

[m4tti]

gacksen said:

not everbody that is asking questions has a problem with somebody and if needed TVR Power can speak for himself as seen !

when talking about shims the KTM discussion is quite old. If the KTM shims are to soft whats the HRC value of the TVR Power shims ?

Good point Gacksen old chap, so to put it into context the oem specified Rockwell well hardness for RB26 engine (which is another high performance 6) shims is 65. Obviously there are several scales, but assuming we're talking scale C, then a hardness of 76 is pretty acceptable.

[coco79]

ukdj said:

How does this differ from all mainstream car manufacturers who "hold you to ransom" with their parts, servicing & warranty terms?

I think there is a considerable difference, given that the majority of TVR owners spend vastly greater sums on their pride and joy than on an average 'euro box' as a daily runner - one becomes more cost sensitive!

[ukdj]

coco79 said:

ukdj said:

How does this differ from all mainstream car manufacturers who "hold you to ransom" with their parts, servicing & warranty terms?

I think there is a considerable difference, given that the majority of TVR owners spend vastly greater sums on their pride and joy than on an average 'euro box' as a daily runner - one becomes more cost sensitive!

Perhaps you misunderstood?

I was merely stating that Dom is doing no different than any of the mainstream manufacturers vis-a-vis warranty, you have a choice cut costs and go elsewhere for parts & servicing but have to sacrifice your warranty in the process - it's your call what you decide to do but don't think Dom should be flamed for his policy which is the norm across the board.

[Dollyman1850]

I think a lot are missing the point here…

All the dealers who have previously worked on all your cars are all exactly the same…

Along comes the next smolenski, buys the brand, bullsts everyone about a new TVR (have we seen anything yet??) then thinks..hang on we need some money coming into the coffers now to cover my outlay on this brand… I know lets come up with a licensing agreement and try to make all the dealers and specialists hand over wads of cash to me for the privilege of saying that they belong to a genuine TVR network…..

The reality is that some of those long respected dealers have decided to go that way, some have sad F**K off and carried on as before.

As someone who owns car for which spares have been out of production for some 40 years now I care not a lot..

The rest of you's young cubs with modern cars will sharp get used to sourcing parts and getting stuff made and supplied by the real engineers around, rather than the marketing types intent on trying to get money from you…

All the specialists whether with one camp or the other are still as good / or bad as they ever were. All the specialists will protect there own livelihoods first…no one can blame any of them for that…

If you want a Guaranteed Dom engine then the answer is simple…Stick with Dom.

You pays your money and takes your choice!!

Wonder when this TVR is going to break ground!!

Edited by Dollyman1850 on Thursday 28th May 20:40

[Graham]

Dollyman1850 said:

Along comes the next smolenski, buys the brand, bullsts everyone about a new TVR

i think your about 3 years out of date...somolenski sold up

[N7GTX]

ukdj said:

coco79 said:

ukdj said:

How does this differ from all mainstream car manufacturers who "hold you to ransom" with their parts, servicing & warranty terms?

I think there is a considerable difference, given that the majority of TVR owners spend vastly greater sums on their pride and joy than on an average 'euro box' as a daily runner - one becomes more cost sensitive!

Perhaps you misunderstood?

I was merely stating that Dom is doing no different than any of the mainstream manufacturers vis-a-vis warranty, you have a choice cut costs and go elsewhere for parts & servicing but have to sacrifice your warranty in the process - it's your call what you decide to do but don't think Dom should be flamed for his policy which is the norm across the board.

No, no, no, you do NOT 'sacrifice your warranty' if you choose to service your mainstream car anywhere else so long as you either:

a) use the manufacturer's parts
or
b) use parts of equivalent quality that match or exceed the original specification (this is displayed on posters in parts suppliers).

This is scaremongering and is spouted by service receptionists within dealerships on the command of the service manager/general manager/dealer principal to try and get you to part your hard earned cash with them.
It really is time car owners woke up to this well established fact and it is covered under restrictive practices in European Law. Read your handbook. It does not say you MUST have the car serviced to maintain the warranty, it says you should and there is a vast difference.

So please, no more of this.

[bartesque]

+ 2 for Alex's and Grey ghosts comments
I for one will also be sticking with Dom and his team as I have total confidence in them.

And my trip to Coventry involves a ferry and an overnight

Nick