New TVR confirmed
Discussion
zebedee said:
yawn. What is this, the Financial Times? No it is pistonheads, enthusiasm please.
Well I'm sorry you fell asleep there but you clearly read it or you wouldn't be commenting, trust me when my contribution was not intended to be negative indeed I came on later to say the news is a very good thing for existing owners of a TVR.The financial back story may be dull to you but if Les doesn't get this bit right you'll be witnessing another disappointing TVR failure to add to the many others that litter TVR's checkered history.
If you want to live a la la TVR dream land go for it, but the bottom line is the rebirth is just business venture like any other.
We are all petrol heads that love the TVR brand but for those very reasons I'd challenge you to forget the product for a minute, it doesn't matter what you make & sell no business can survive on passion alone. It absolutely must be supported by a foundation of sound financials.
The new TVR will need to make a profit like any other commercial enterprise or it'll die very quickly, thems the rules of any free market economy
And if that happens where's our beloved TVR then?
PistonHeads.. because everyone has an opinion and is given the forum to express it, may I suggest if an intelligent opinion from another contributor starts to bore you.... simply stop reading it
Superb news, really looking forward to seeing what the actual product is, can't recall the blurb being cvlear if it was hard top or rag top?
I'd love it to have a flat plane crank ala the Cerbera and rev like the wind. I suspect a Ford Coyote base tweaked by Cosworth, nothing wrong with that in my book. There have been race versions already made with the typically non-US V8 flat plane layout already, so there is hope. No issues with it having TC as I cannot claim to be a driving god, make it switcahble for those that are though.
Would I chop the Cerbera for one, with a heavy heart, probably.
The kids inheritance pah, they don't need anything from me.........besides a TVR is an investment..............
I'd love it to have a flat plane crank ala the Cerbera and rev like the wind. I suspect a Ford Coyote base tweaked by Cosworth, nothing wrong with that in my book. There have been race versions already made with the typically non-US V8 flat plane layout already, so there is hope. No issues with it having TC as I cannot claim to be a driving god, make it switcahble for those that are though.
Would I chop the Cerbera for one, with a heavy heart, probably.
The kids inheritance pah, they don't need anything from me.........besides a TVR is an investment..............
[quote=BrabusMog]I still think the Sagaris is the best looking car ever made...
quote]
The Sag IS the best looking car ever produced. My opinion, of course, but also FACT
But what the hell is it with all the negativity?!? Do you really think that they haven't thoroughly gone over the sums, viability, markets etc etc etc time and time again before going to the press?? Do you think Gordon Murray - arguably the best car designer in the world right now - or Cosworth for that matter, would have signed up to it if they didn't think it could work?? Jesus Christ, they've barely had chance to fart and people are already writing them off! Give em a chance for crying out loud.
Mr Murray has developed a system which allows them to design a car from the ground-up in a much more simple and therefore COST EFFECTIVE manor than is traditionally the case. They're using already proven, mass-produced engines and have backing from quite a few very wealthy background sources from the sound of things. They're making it as British as possible, as lightweight as possible and as cheap as possible, all with a chuffing great V8 Cosworth engine in it. What more do you want?!?!
I thought an amazing announcement like this would end all the speculation and comparisons to other non-related marques and models. What the hell has a Nissan GT-R or Ginetta got to do with anything?! The GT-R is a computer on wheels and certainly not a 2 seater sports car. & have you ever driven a Ginetta?! They're horrible things to drive!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm s
ting smarties I'm that excited by this, & I won't even be able to afford to buy one!!
quote]
The Sag IS the best looking car ever produced. My opinion, of course, but also FACT
But what the hell is it with all the negativity?!? Do you really think that they haven't thoroughly gone over the sums, viability, markets etc etc etc time and time again before going to the press?? Do you think Gordon Murray - arguably the best car designer in the world right now - or Cosworth for that matter, would have signed up to it if they didn't think it could work?? Jesus Christ, they've barely had chance to fart and people are already writing them off! Give em a chance for crying out loud.
Mr Murray has developed a system which allows them to design a car from the ground-up in a much more simple and therefore COST EFFECTIVE manor than is traditionally the case. They're using already proven, mass-produced engines and have backing from quite a few very wealthy background sources from the sound of things. They're making it as British as possible, as lightweight as possible and as cheap as possible, all with a chuffing great V8 Cosworth engine in it. What more do you want?!?!
I thought an amazing announcement like this would end all the speculation and comparisons to other non-related marques and models. What the hell has a Nissan GT-R or Ginetta got to do with anything?! The GT-R is a computer on wheels and certainly not a 2 seater sports car. & have you ever driven a Ginetta?! They're horrible things to drive!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm s
ting smarties I'm that excited by this, & I won't even be able to afford to buy one!!ecs0set said:
The is good news! 
However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
I recall he tested a Cerb chassis when at Maclaren and found that it twisted in the spine. Something we've probably all noticed with Tivs anyway. However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
article said:
At heart it uses conventional steel tubes but the composite panels are bonded to it, creating a lightweight and rigid structure.
Apparently Gordon thinks that the TVR backbone chassis is very weak so surprising to hear they are using a similar idea, even with the bonded elements: https://youtu.be/lqTbdmbL7mU?t=5m2sEdited by ecs0set on Wednesday 3rd June 12:47
But TVR remedied this with the T400R racers and subsequent road cars by bonding the tubular steel frame into a composite and aluminium structure.
So, as I mentioned on the alternate thread, TVR built an iStream(esque) car 15 years ago!
DonkeyApple said:
ecs0set said:
The is good news!
However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
I recall he tested a Cerb chassis when at Maclaren and found that it twisted in the spine. Something we've probably all noticed with Tivs anyway. However is it just me that thinks Gordon Murray can be a bit of a twit sometimes?
article said:
At heart it uses conventional steel tubes but the composite panels are bonded to it, creating a lightweight and rigid structure.
Apparently Gordon thinks that the TVR backbone chassis is very weak so surprising to hear they are using a similar idea, even with the bonded elements: https://youtu.be/lqTbdmbL7mU?t=5m2sBut TVR remedied this with the T400R racers and subsequent road cars by bonding the tubular steel frame into a composite and aluminium structure.
So, as I mentioned on the alternate thread, TVR built an iStream(esque) car 15 years ago!
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/iSTREAM.html
I doubt it's a backbone chassis I suspect subframes and composites.
It was Crighton Brown's Griffith he put on the 'rack' he described as 'lacking torsional rigidity'
V8 GRF said:
I think you all better have a look at this page about iStream
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/iSTREAM.html
I doubt it's a backbone chassis I suspect subframes and composites.
It was Crighton Brown's Griffith he put on the 'rack' he described as 'lacking torsional rigidity'
I was being somewhat tongue in cheek. http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/iSTREAM.html
I doubt it's a backbone chassis I suspect subframes and composites.
It was Crighton Brown's Griffith he put on the 'rack' he described as 'lacking torsional rigidity'
However, it is worth remembering, amongst all this great new news, that TVR wasn't as primitive as the media likes to continually spew.
V8 GRF said:
I think you all better have a look at this page about iStream
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/iSTREAM.html
I doubt it's a backbone chassis I suspect subframes and composites.
It was Crighton Brown's Griffith he put on the 'rack' he described as 'lacking torsional rigidity'
I see some ingenuity but it's difficult to extract it from the marketing B-S.http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/iSTREAM.html
I doubt it's a backbone chassis I suspect subframes and composites.
It was Crighton Brown's Griffith he put on the 'rack' he described as 'lacking torsional rigidity'
WTF does this tell you for example? If a picture speaks a thousand words, in this case it's "la la la la la la la...."
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/the_idea_plan...
rfisher said:
If they make a new TVR with a £40k entry model I'm going to have a hard time trying not to buy one.
Crate Mustang V8 in an iStream framing:http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/istream2.html
... and with no complicated bits added could be a winner.
Base model specced up with engine kit, suspension tweaking, leather inside, tech bits will be the way forward to offer a (more expensive) tailor made TVR. Different strokes ...
ecs0set said:
I see some ingenuity but it's difficult to extract it from the marketing B-S.
WTF does this tell you for example? If a picture speaks a thousand words, in this case it's "la la la la la la la...."
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/the_idea_plan...
I remember trying to read his stuff when the T25 appeared. Then again when the Yamaha deal was announced. And finally, last night, when the TVR news broke. WTF does this tell you for example? If a picture speaks a thousand words, in this case it's "la la la la la la la...."
http://www.istreamtechnology.co.uk/1/the_idea_plan...
I'm still of the opinion that his website is for media ponces what a butt plug is for disco dancers.
DonkeyApple said:
I remember trying to read his stuff when the T25 appeared. Then again when the Yamaha deal was announced. And finally, last night, when the TVR news broke.
I'm still of the opinion that his website is for media ponces what a butt plug is for disco dancers.
That's a bit harsh I'm still of the opinion that his website is for media ponces what a butt plug is for disco dancers.
...but beneath all the fancy graphics and other assorted frippery there is some interesting and well thought through technology and innovation.
Apart from building a seminal roadcar in the F1 (ignore the MacMerc as that was a committee design) remember he built some seriously innovative F1 cars at Brabham that won 2 championships (as well as the winning 1st and only time out BT46 Fan Car) he was also technical director at McLaren when they ruled F1.
Not a bad man to have on your team....
cerb4.5lee said:
Limpet said:
suffolk009 said:
Murray, Cosworth, TVR.
It's like a wet dream.
This.It's like a wet dream.
And successful businessmen running it! It's hard not to get a little bit excited.
V8 GRF said:
DonkeyApple said:
I remember trying to read his stuff when the T25 appeared. Then again when the Yamaha deal was announced. And finally, last night, when the TVR news broke.
I'm still of the opinion that his website is for media ponces what a butt plug is for disco dancers.
That's a bit harsh I'm still of the opinion that his website is for media ponces what a butt plug is for disco dancers.
...but beneath all the fancy graphics and other assorted frippery there is some interesting and well thought through technology and innovation.
Apart from building a seminal roadcar in the F1 (ignore the MacMerc as that was a committee design) remember he built some seriously innovative F1 cars at Brabham that won 2 championships (as well as the winning 1st and only time out BT46 Fan Car) he was also technical director at McLaren when they ruled F1.
Not a bad man to have on your team....
But I don't think the average TVR customer or potential customer really buys into all that media guff and general testacle tickling that pervades the product website.
What's needed is for a Yorkshireman to translate it back into grown up English for normal folk.
soad said:
He wants a supercharger?
AKA a factory upgrade. Base US V8s (LS3/Coyote) are both just over 400 so just as others are eeking a chunk more out in the US so can Cosworth.
But both seem quite happy to have FI fitted which must open the door to future factory upgrades from TVR to get the maniacs over 600bhp if desired?
An additional upside to sticking Cosworth in the middle is not just the huge PR upside but also the ability to argue that any performance upgrades need to be bought from TVR and not from the many suppliers that exist in the US for the base engines, thus ensuring this additional spend that TVRs have always created in the past goes through their books and not get lost.
When you see how much a modern manufacturer gains from bringing the 'tuning/upgrade' aspect in house you can begin to see the magnitude of revenue that old TVR completely lost out on. One has to assume that new TVR plan to control this aspect and make sure upgrades are sanctioned and they receive their share of the revenue. As they have done with the Heritage Parts side.
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