Valuing a chimaera that's been modded and tracked??
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
The difference is in the value of those modifications to you, against what somebody else is prepared to pay for them. Your no-compromise approach to create a fantastic Griffith will have cost you an awful lot of money, money you will never recover if you ever decided to sell.
You have created a very specialist Griffith. On the open market where a majority of potential owners prioritise originality over increased performance, your modifications have limited your potential market to those who value pure performance over originality. As these cars continue to be pushed into the 'Classic car' market, that limits their appeal and therefore their value IMHO.
For example, A Chimaera that has £1,500 worth of high performance track bias Nitrons and Geo set-up will not be worth £1,500 more than another Chimaera which has a good Bilstien set-up. In fact if the Nitrons make it too hard for road use, then that car would be worth less to the majority of drivers wanting a Chimaera.
It would to me and thats what makes something only worth what someones willing to pay for it! So the fear of limiting my potential market is easily negated by the option to sell the mods [never a problem in my experience] and revert to standard!You have created a very specialist Griffith. On the open market where a majority of potential owners prioritise originality over increased performance, your modifications have limited your potential market to those who value pure performance over originality. As these cars continue to be pushed into the 'Classic car' market, that limits their appeal and therefore their value IMHO.
For example, A Chimaera that has £1,500 worth of high performance track bias Nitrons and Geo set-up will not be worth £1,500 more than another Chimaera which has a good Bilstien set-up. In fact if the Nitrons make it too hard for road use, then that car would be worth less to the majority of drivers wanting a Chimaera.
I've paid over the odds and travelled as far as Holland and Scotland buying modified TVR's, in fact i'm pretty sure apart from the Griff they have all been breathed on! Never found the owners hard pressed to move there cars on and never lost a cent when selling the cars on even into trade.
Not everyone wants an unmolested car to polish and preen over and to date i've had two serious offers on the Griff that would not of left me to out of pocket, which for a car i've owned for over 9 years and had more fun in than i can remember is not to bad
If when buying or thinking about modifying your TVR you are worrying about its future appeal to others or the size of that target audience it makes it more of an investment purchase and i guess all mine have been born out of a passion for the cars and there drivability
Horses for courses i suppose but i can think of several heavily modified cars built over the last 5 or so years that are still holding very respectable money or have gone into private collections Clives AJP Griff to name but one!
My personal view on modding, is do it to make yourself happy but when you come to sell choose one of 3 option
1.right off the investment
2. Revert the car to standard and sell the bits if possible.
3. Wait along time for the right person who wants your exact car.
But I'm still no closer to working out what a modded chim 4.5 is worth, I suppose it wouldn't matter but I do tend to only keep my cars a max of 2 years and I really don't like dropping a lot of money!!!
1.right off the investment
2. Revert the car to standard and sell the bits if possible.
3. Wait along time for the right person who wants your exact car.
But I'm still no closer to working out what a modded chim 4.5 is worth, I suppose it wouldn't matter but I do tend to only keep my cars a max of 2 years and I really don't like dropping a lot of money!!!
Hello, chaps.
Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated". It is, after all, 18 years old.
- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated".
It is, after all, 18 years old.- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Edited by Zumbruk on Tuesday 30th June 13:23
Disagree about the roll bar (at least the 'goalpost' design most often seen) -for road use it's a liability as you're not wearing a helmet and any sort of frontal, rear, or side impact is likely to throw ones head about a fair bit... Rollover incidents frankly are the least of my worries in TVRs for road use, at least you can see them coming and have a couple of seconds to duck below the car's perimeter (as long as you're wearing the std inertia reels rather than harnesses).
Zumbruk said:
Hello, chaps.
Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated". It is, after all, 18 years old.
- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Hugh. How the devil are you?Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated".
It is, after all, 18 years old.- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Edited by Zumbruk on Tuesday 30th June 13:23
Have you hung up your nomex then?
Tim
TT Tim said:
Zumbruk said:
Hello, chaps.
Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated". It is, after all, 18 years old.
- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Hugh. How the devil are you?Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated".
It is, after all, 18 years old.- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Edited by Zumbruk on Tuesday 30th June 13:23
Have you hung up your nomex then?
Tim
Dave
Mr Jenks said:
TT Tim said:
Zumbruk said:
Hello, chaps.
Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated". It is, after all, 18 years old.
- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Hugh. How the devil are you?Well, it's my car we're talking about, and I must admit that I thought long and hard about what to put it up for, and spent a long time looking at the PH classifieds & asking round to try and get a sensible price. Here's some of my thinking;
- I didn't expect to get anything back for the mods.
- All of them are things I would regard as more-or-less essential on any Chimaera that's driven the way a TVR should be. The handling and brakes on standard Chims are pretty rubbish by modern standards, hence the Nitrons, ARB/drop links and big brakes.
- I'd regard a roll bar as a necessity. There's no roll-over protection *at all* in a standard Chim/Griff. The windscreen surround is only fibreglass & if rolled, the whole thing goes flat to the waistline! I like my head a lot, and want to keep it.
- The wheels are more-or-less a necessity, since you can't get decent tyres in 15" any more. Some people put 16" standard wheels on both ends, but that spoils the "nose down" stance that TVR wanted for the Chim, and is expensive and non-standard in itself!
- I removed the race seat and harnesses since no-one's going to want those.
- The ECU mods are invisible, give 20bhp more, much improved drivability in traffic and the Lucas ECU's are crap anyway.
- I admit the bonnet clips are unsightly. I should have had the flush fitting ones, if I'd thought about it a bit harder. I'd likely be happy to drop the price to cover rectifying that.
- I freely admit the interior is nothing to write home about, and specifically told Colin it needs a new set of carpets, but I think "tatty" is a bit harsh! I prefer to think of it as "patinated".
It is, after all, 18 years old.- OTOH, it's mechanically very sound - I have a 2" thick folder of history.
- Sprinting is not particularly hard on the car - it's only 3 or 4 minutes hard driving in the course of a day. You'd likely get more wear-and-tear driving too and from events than at them. Admittedly, track days are much harder on the vehicle, but that just means that all the weak points have been found and rectified!
And when all's said and done, the price is a basis for negotiation, not hard & fast. After all, it's only worth what the market will bear. OTOH, I'm not dropping the price by the cost of a complete rebuild - I might as well keep it and convert it into an out-and-out racer!
BTW, I'm not negotiating with Colin in public (I've replied to your email!) I just thought people might be interested in my thinking - I agree that TVRs are hard to price.
Edited by Zumbruk on Tuesday 30th June 13:23
Have you hung up your nomex then?
Tim
Dave
I'm well, thanks. About to retire and planning to treat myself to some of Stuttgart's finest pork, so the TVR has to go to make garage room. How are the both of you?
Zumbruk said:
I've dropped the price a grand to £11.5K. Obviously still a basis for negotiation.
Sounds fair. My initial comments on the thread were based upon the notion that the modifications have rendered a nice Chimaera as being track-focusses and useless for the road, hence the suggestions that this would limit it's value due to a very limited appear. From the description of the works done, I sounds more like an 'improved' car rather than a ruined one.Good luck with the sale.
Zumbruk said:
Bloody hell, what is this, an ex-TVR-sprinters convention!
I'm well, thanks. About to retire and planning to treat myself to some of Stuttgart's finest pork, so the TVR has to go to make garage room. How are the both of you?
Good luck to you, Hugh. Glad everything`s going well for you. other than going from a TVR to a Porker, life has a downside for everybody at some time, I'm well, thanks. About to retire and planning to treat myself to some of Stuttgart's finest pork, so the TVR has to go to make garage room. How are the both of you?
Pleased to say that we are well and happily back with a TVR again.
An interesting thread. It's unlikely I'll sell mine but after I did all the mods, I basically accepted that the car is worth what someone will pay for it. It was 1 of 35 and is now 1 of 1. I wouldn't get back anything like the cost of the mods (particuarly the engine work) but at the same time, that and all the other stuff (eg brakes, suspension, exhaust, roll bar etc) are worth 'something' in that they do improve the car on track and road. However, as most of the money has been spent on the upkeep and upgrades, there are a lot better condition 450SEs out there.
To the OP, a car is worth what you're willing to pay for it and what it's going to be used for. If you're prepared to pay X for a specific quality Chimaera and this vehicle is of that quality plus it has extras then pay a bit more. If it's not quite of the quality you're looking for but has the mods then perhaps it's still worth X.
So, who wants to buy mine for the same as it's cost me over the last 18 years?
To the OP, a car is worth what you're willing to pay for it and what it's going to be used for. If you're prepared to pay X for a specific quality Chimaera and this vehicle is of that quality plus it has extras then pay a bit more. If it's not quite of the quality you're looking for but has the mods then perhaps it's still worth X.
So, who wants to buy mine for the same as it's cost me over the last 18 years?
The Surveyor said:
Zumbruk said:
I've dropped the price a grand to £11.5K. Obviously still a basis for negotiation.
Sounds fair. My initial comments on the thread were based upon the notion that the modifications have rendered a nice Chimaera as being track-focusses and useless for the road, hence the suggestions that this would limit it's value due to a very limited appeal. The Surveyor said:
From the description of the works done, I sounds more like an 'improved' car rather than a ruined one.
That was certainly the idea.The Surveyor said:
Good luck with the sale.
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