Valuing a chimaera that's been modded and tracked??
Discussion
I'm thinking of buying a chim , that I saw earlier today. My problem is working out what it's worth..
The car has had quite a few mods on it, nitro shocks, omec engine management system , brakes off a viper, roll bar , runs on 17" alloys etc. . The oiley bits seem fine , the body and interior are a little tatty and it will need a new screen sooner or later as is going milky around the bottom.
I think the cars only done 4 k in the last 12 years but most of that has been on sprint events and track days, so my question is do you think it's worth more or less than a stock 450 and what is the going rate on a 97 450 with 50 k on the clock??
The car has had quite a few mods on it, nitro shocks, omec engine management system , brakes off a viper, roll bar , runs on 17" alloys etc. . The oiley bits seem fine , the body and interior are a little tatty and it will need a new screen sooner or later as is going milky around the bottom.
I think the cars only done 4 k in the last 12 years but most of that has been on sprint events and track days, so my question is do you think it's worth more or less than a stock 450 and what is the going rate on a 97 450 with 50 k on the clock??
For me I would pay a little more if the car was modified for performance.
A non-standard car would definitely fetch less money then a good condition standard car IMHO.
But,........If the car was hugely modified, LS etc, then it may fetch better money.
If you are going to utilise the extra performance and modifications of a modified car then you would be silly not to go for one as the previous owner would never recoup what he has spent on the car.
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
A non-standard car would definitely fetch less money then a good condition standard car IMHO.
But,........If the car was hugely modified, LS etc, then it may fetch better money.
If you are going to utilise the extra performance and modifications of a modified car then you would be silly not to go for one as the previous owner would never recoup what he has spent on the car.
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
phazed said:
....But,........If the car was hugely modified, LS etc, then it may fetch better money.
.......
The problem with highly modified cars is that they appeal to an almost non-existent market. People who want a car to provide a specific level of performance for sprints or track use are the sort of people who would tailor any modifications by doing it themselves. That way they know exactly what has gone into the changes and where any cost / performance compromises have been made. .......
To the OP, for me, the best way to value the car you've described is to work out how much it would cost to put it back into A1 road-car condition, then deduct that from the price of a non-modified car of the same age / mileage and that's what its worth. In the same way that somebody valuing a car that needs a new interior, a respray, new tyres, etc would.
The Surveyor said:
The problem with highly modified cars is that they appeal to an almost non-existent market. People who want a car to provide a specific level of performance for sprints or track use are the sort of people who would tailor any modifications by doing it themselves. That way they know exactly what has gone into the changes and where any cost / performance compromises have been made.
To the OP, for me, the best way to value the car you've described is to work out how much it would cost to put it back into A1 road-car condition, then deduct that from the price of a non-modified car of the same age / mileage and that's what its worth. In the same way that somebody valuing a car that needs a new interior, a respray, new tyres, etc would.
Have to disagree on your first point, reckon i have one of the most modded Griff's in the country and every bit of work work was carried out by a specialist in there field and ex TVR factory where possible & the word compromise never entered into any aspect of my build!To the OP, for me, the best way to value the car you've described is to work out how much it would cost to put it back into A1 road-car condition, then deduct that from the price of a non-modified car of the same age / mileage and that's what its worth. In the same way that somebody valuing a car that needs a new interior, a respray, new tyres, etc would.
A modified car can only be judged against the quality of the work and materials used in my opinion, whether it be a specialist's car or a DIY special!
7 TVR said:
A modified car can only be judged against the quality of the work and materials used in my opinion, whether it be a specialist's car or a DIY special!
I totally agree. For example the standard car's brakes & shocks are just about ok, but Hugh has spent a lot of money putting arguably the best on this Chimaera. Also goes for the ECU & wiring too.Not forgetting the usual caveat of buying on condition etc etc etc.
7 TVR said:
Have to disagree on your first point, reckon i have one of the most modded Griff's in the country and every bit of work work was carried out by a specialist in there field and ex TVR factory where possible & the word compromise never entered into any aspect of my build!
A modified car can only be judged against the quality of the work and materials used in my opinion, whether it be a specialist's car or a DIY special!
The difference is in the value of those modifications to you, against what somebody else is prepared to pay for them. Your no-compromise approach to create a fantastic Griffith will have cost you an awful lot of money, money you will never recover if you ever decided to sell.A modified car can only be judged against the quality of the work and materials used in my opinion, whether it be a specialist's car or a DIY special!
You have created a very specialist Griffith. On the open market where a majority of potential owners prioritise originality over increased performance, your modifications have limited your potential market to those who value pure performance over originality. As these cars continue to be pushed into the 'Classic car' market, that limits their appeal and therefore their value IMHO.
For example, A Chimaera that has £1,500 worth of high performance track bias Nitrons and Geo set-up will not be worth £1,500 more than another Chimaera which has a good Bilstien set-up. In fact if the Nitrons make it too hard for road use, then that car would be worth less to the majority of drivers wanting a Chimaera.
I think these questions would be easier if you could get a handle on TVR prices in general. For example a 4.5 chim just sold for under 9k but was that cheap or market value. I think one of the problems is TVR values are to low to cover the work it cost to get them to a nice condition, for example a new windscreen and respray is going cost what £3 to 5K , new interior £1k , but does this mean a used TVR is now worth £6k less than a mint example??
Also looking at the TVR in question, depending on your point of view to turn it back to a standard car ( which would be worth more money in the long term ), it would probably cost say £3k so should I offer £3k less. Also how much does a car that has been sprinted etc, lose in value because even though the mileage if low the stresses are going to high on the whole car and the chassis and body might be weakened.
I had a modded MGF once that had well over £10k spent on it , and it took me 6 months to sell and for no more than a standard car.
Also looking at the TVR in question, depending on your point of view to turn it back to a standard car ( which would be worth more money in the long term ), it would probably cost say £3k so should I offer £3k less. Also how much does a car that has been sprinted etc, lose in value because even though the mileage if low the stresses are going to high on the whole car and the chassis and body might be weakened.
I had a modded MGF once that had well over £10k spent on it , and it took me 6 months to sell and for no more than a standard car.
cejsmith said:
I think these questions would be easier if you could get a handle on TVR prices in general. For example a 4.5 chim just sold for under 9k but was that cheap or market value. I think one of the problems is TVR values are to low to cover the work it cost to get them to a nice condition, for example a new windscreen and respray is going cost what £3 to 5K , new interior £1k , but does this mean a used TVR is now worth £6k less than a mint example??
Also looking at the TVR in question, depending on your point of view to turn it back to a standard car ( which would be worth more money in the long term ), it would probably cost say £3k so should I offer £3k less. Also how much does a car that has been sprinted etc, lose in value because even though the mileage if low the stresses are going to high on the whole car and the chassis and body might be weakened.
I had a modded MGF once that had well over £10k spent on it , and it took me 6 months to sell and for no more than a standard car.
This one? http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...Also looking at the TVR in question, depending on your point of view to turn it back to a standard car ( which would be worth more money in the long term ), it would probably cost say £3k so should I offer £3k less. Also how much does a car that has been sprinted etc, lose in value because even though the mileage if low the stresses are going to high on the whole car and the chassis and body might be weakened.
I had a modded MGF once that had well over £10k spent on it , and it took me 6 months to sell and for no more than a standard car.
Not bad for a tatty body. You seem to have the situation fairly well weighed up. The stresses on the chassis will be higher than for standard road use (potholes aside) but only for very, very short spells at a time. Using minor's law you should be OK. Many people will view Nitrons as a benefit so I don't think that that's a haggling point (the last iteration of Billies by the factory being the best for road use and about the same price as N's IIRC.) I think that you'll be lucky to get £3K off but it's a good starting point. How much do you really need to spend on the interior and check the chassis, as always.
Good luck.
A respray, new interior, new windscreen are not 'major modifications' in fact they could almost be described as 'maintenance'. These will add to the value of a car but certainly not to the full value of the works. For a proper new interior, you won't see much change from £5k but you're right in that that alone won't turn a tired £9k Chimaera into a £14k car.
As you found with your MGF, the market will dictate a cars value at any particular time. My point is that a car which has been heavily modified will only appeal to a narrower sector of the market and will therefore be harder to sell than a car which appeals to the wider market. Limited appeal usually results in reduced value.
As you found with your MGF, the market will dictate a cars value at any particular time. My point is that a car which has been heavily modified will only appeal to a narrower sector of the market and will therefore be harder to sell than a car which appeals to the wider market. Limited appeal usually results in reduced value.
phazed said:
Well, thats me f
ked! Mine must be worth around £6K then...........
that's an odd comment given that you've just said this:-ked! Mine must be worth around £6K then...........phazed said:
A non-standard car would definitely fetch less money then a good condition standard car IMHO.
...
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
...
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
TA14 said:
phazed said:
Well, thats me fked! Mine must be worth around £6K then...........
that's an odd comment given that you've just said this:-ked! Mine must be worth around £6K then...........phazed said:
A non-standard car would definitely fetch less money then a good condition standard car IMHO.
...
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
...
When I sold my old Chim, I pretty much put it back to standard, (apart from the engine mods that were unseen) as I believe I had a better chance of getting a fair price for it.
The second quote refers to my old 4.6, very much not standard, even in the looks department so I put it back to pretty much standard and got a fair price for it.
The "f
ked" statement was a little tongue in cheek as I would never put it back to standard and is in my opinion, a "one off".£6k
Extract:
5.5 V8D engine built by Rob Roertson.
Top hated large journal block
Cross bolted
Special stroker crank,
Cat 6" steel H beam forged rods
ARP bolts
Forged Diamond pistons
Total Seal gapless rings
404 solid camshaft
Solid lifters
Yella Terra roller rockers
JE billet outrigger posts
ACT Triple plenum and 45mm trumpet base
Stage 4 ported heads
10.5 :1 Comp
Ported and polished inlet manifold
30lb Accell Injectors
JE alternator bracket
P38 coil pack
Accel 8mm leads
McLeod 10.5" clutch, (rated to 350 horses, hmm)
Forged lightweight alloy flywheel
Aaron alloy radiator
ACT full set black silicon hoses
34 row Oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off
Fully decatted
ACT Decat Y piece
Megasquirt 2 & new engine harness
Wideband gauge
Gaz Mono Dampers with
Eibach 450/400 Springs
5 stud conversion
RL7 wheels, 17" all round with R1Rs for road, black.
RL7 wheels 17" & 18" with R888s for track, silver.
Braided hoses
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted
Mondeo estate rear rose joint drop links
Leven front drop links
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round
TR Lane roll bar
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump
Converted to Subaru PS rack .
Series 2 Elise seats
Additional vents to front valance
Carbon fibre splitter to front
MK3 faired in headlight conversion
Varley Red Top gel battery fitted above fuel tank.
The Surveyor said:
I know that, but that would only benefit those prospective buyers who intend to regularly track their car. Nitrons are an expensive indulgence for anybody who only ever drives on the road.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sorry but I disagree with yours. Nitrons give much more adjustable control than the std set up with the design dating back over 30 years, resulting in far superior ride on normal road driving & the ability to be tweeked for spirited driving.griffdude said:
The Surveyor said:
I know that, but that would only benefit those prospective buyers who intend to regularly track their car. Nitrons are an expensive indulgence for anybody who only ever drives on the road.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sorry but I disagree with yours. Nitrons give much more adjustable control than the std set up with the design dating back over 30 years, resulting in far superior ride on normal road driving & the ability to be tweeked for spirited driving.Regarding any perceived increased value in the car based solely upon the fitting of Nitrons, it will be minimal if measurable at all especially if the buyer is aware of the need to get them serviced every 3 years or so.
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