TVR to take deposits in 6 days time ....
Discussion
HarryW said:
Lotus E300S said:
Byker28i said:
Lotus E300S said:
350Matt said:
thats fair comment
I'd expect the new TVR to remain quite small though but lets say its 10% bigger than a cerb which was 1140 kg and 350 bhp ( 4.2) so 1140 x 1.1 = 1254 kg so the same as a GT86 but with 450 bhp
Friend owns a Cerbera and it was nearly 1300 kg when we took them to a weigh bridge, My Sag was just under 1150 kg, both had about half a tank of fuel.I'd expect the new TVR to remain quite small though but lets say its 10% bigger than a cerb which was 1140 kg and 350 bhp ( 4.2) so 1140 x 1.1 = 1254 kg so the same as a GT86 but with 450 bhp
Mine was 4 corner weighed a few years ago at a 750 motorclub meeting on equipment used by one of the race teams and came out close to the above with 3/4 tank of fuel.
Seems his is not just the only heavy Cerbera
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=374...
You would also expect the Cerbera to be the heaviest of them all as this also has the extra GRP of the roof and some extra metal for the cage (?) bit on top of that they are larger cars with more GRP in the shell, more metal in chassis and more trim in the interior.
The Typhon is larger still but has less trim and the body is CF so I'd expect it to be lighter than a Cerb even though it's a little larger.
Now looking at the new car we don't know what the composite will be but suggestions seem to be that the process of building chassis and body with GMs system is quicker and easier than traditional lay up processes so the material may not be either GRP or cF. Either way, it's hard to imagine that it will be heavier than say a Cerb body. The process also alludes to using much less metal in the framework and so this could be a huge weight saving.
All in, even though it may be larger I would hazard a guess that body and chassis of this new car will be lighter than the heaviest body/chassis combo to date.
Will interior weight be more? Unless they are going to fill the car with electric motors and sound deadening etc then it's hard to imagine it being much heavier than previous Tivs.
Engine and drivetrain? Maybe a little heavier? Does something like a Ford V8 weigh more or less than an S6? Gearbox and shafts are likely to be heavier though as its a six speed and shafts will need to be capablenof taking more power etc.
In short, if GMs build system does save weight then it seems feasible that the new car should be no heavier than the heaviest TVR to date.
But one issue might be that Les Edgar's scales might be more honest than Wheelers and so even if the new car comes in at the same weight as old ones the media will latch onto Wheeler's 1050 claims as well as all the other claims and make unfair comparisons.
PW's 1050 kg claim was bang on for the Griffith and Chimaera (mine was 1043.5 on Intrax' scales as factory standard less spare but with amply filled toolbag, amplifier and subwoofer), I saw the Dutch road authorities' kerb weight for an imported Tamora and it was 1,020 (mine was 1,050).
Cerberae are a bit different, although early cars normally aren't that far off the 1,100something quoted weight, either.
Cerberae are a bit different, although early cars normally aren't that far off the 1,100something quoted weight, either.
DonkeyApple said:
HarryW said:
Lotus E300S said:
Byker28i said:
Lotus E300S said:
350Matt said:
thats fair comment
I'd expect the new TVR to remain quite small though but lets say its 10% bigger than a cerb which was 1140 kg and 350 bhp ( 4.2) so 1140 x 1.1 = 1254 kg so the same as a GT86 but with 450 bhp
Friend owns a Cerbera and it was nearly 1300 kg when we took them to a weigh bridge, My Sag was just under 1150 kg, both had about half a tank of fuel.I'd expect the new TVR to remain quite small though but lets say its 10% bigger than a cerb which was 1140 kg and 350 bhp ( 4.2) so 1140 x 1.1 = 1254 kg so the same as a GT86 but with 450 bhp
Mine was 4 corner weighed a few years ago at a 750 motorclub meeting on equipment used by one of the race teams and came out close to the above with 3/4 tank of fuel.
Seems his is not just the only heavy Cerbera
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=374...
You would also expect the Cerbera to be the heaviest of them all as this also has the extra GRP of the roof and some extra metal for the cage (?) bit on top of that they are larger cars with more GRP in the shell, more metal in chassis and more trim in the interior.
The Typhon is larger still but has less trim and the body is CF so I'd expect it to be lighter than a Cerb even though it's a little larger.
Now looking at the new car we don't know what the composite will be but suggestions seem to be that the process of building chassis and body with GMs system is quicker and easier than traditional lay up processes so the material may not be either GRP or cF. Either way, it's hard to imagine that it will be heavier than say a Cerb body. The process also alludes to using much less metal in the framework and so this could be a huge weight saving.
All in, even though it may be larger I would hazard a guess that body and chassis of this new car will be lighter than the heaviest body/chassis combo to date.
Will interior weight be more? Unless they are going to fill the car with electric motors and sound deadening etc then it's hard to imagine it being much heavier than previous Tivs.
Engine and drivetrain? Maybe a little heavier? Does something like a Ford V8 weigh more or less than an S6? Gearbox and shafts are likely to be heavier though as its a six speed and shafts will need to be capablenof taking more power etc.
In short, if GMs build system does save weight then it seems feasible that the new car should be no heavier than the heaviest TVR to date.
But one issue might be that Les Edgar's scales might be more honest than Wheelers and so even if the new car comes in at the same weight as old ones the media will latch onto Wheeler's 1050 claims as well as all the other claims and make unfair comparisons.
Lotus E300S said:
Remember the weights I obtained are wet weights, new car weights are often dry weights, take air/con and fluids off and I bet the Sag would be near 1050kg and Cerb 1200kg.
In total I weighed about ten Cerbs. Of those cars they varied from the lightest 1101Kg to 1419kg. You couldn't tell by looking at them. When the 1419kg one went on I though my corner weigth scales had gone out of calibration but them put my car on and it read true.There was mind crushingly vast variation between cars produced by the TVR factory, and not only for weight.
The only rule of thumb you can have for Cerbs was that the frame from 1999/2000 on seemed a lot lighter, and more likely to rust. Feeling the wheel arches in the car showed two distinct thicknesses. The thicker were the heavier cars and more likey to run wheels on the wheelarches, but there didn't seem to be a leter or earlier distinction with the thickness, its just seemed to be which mold you got?
I don't thinks quoting weights for the type of TVR has really any meaning.
Lotus E300S said:
A late 4.5 lightweight,
Seems his is not just the only heavy Cerbera
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=374...
Nope - mine weighed in at a shade over 1120kgSeems his is not just the only heavy Cerbera
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=374...
julian64 said:
In total I weighed about ten Cerbs. Of those cars they varied from the lightest 1101Kg to 1419kg. You couldn't tell by looking at them. When the 1419kg one went on I though my corner weigth scales had gone out of calibration but them put my car on and it read true.
There was mind crushingly vast variation between cars produced by the TVR factory, and not only for weight.
The only rule of thumb you can have for Cerbs was that the frame from 1999/2000 on seemed a lot lighter, and more likely to rust. Feeling the wheel arches in the car showed two distinct thicknesses. The thicker were the heavier cars and more likey to run wheels on the wheelarches, but there didn't seem to be a leter or earlier distinction with the thickness, its just seemed to be which mold you got?
I don't thinks quoting weights for the type of TVR has really any meaning.
It always surprises me just how heavy GRP is. I guess at the factory, different teams or people made the shells differently. An extra layer over the whole car probably makes a big difference? But a 300kg range seems huge!There was mind crushingly vast variation between cars produced by the TVR factory, and not only for weight.
The only rule of thumb you can have for Cerbs was that the frame from 1999/2000 on seemed a lot lighter, and more likely to rust. Feeling the wheel arches in the car showed two distinct thicknesses. The thicker were the heavier cars and more likey to run wheels on the wheelarches, but there didn't seem to be a leter or earlier distinction with the thickness, its just seemed to be which mold you got?
I don't thinks quoting weights for the type of TVR has really any meaning.
DonkeyApple said:
julian64 said:
In total I weighed about ten Cerbs. Of those cars they varied from the lightest 1101Kg to 1419kg. You couldn't tell by looking at them. When the 1419kg one went on I though my corner weigth scales had gone out of calibration but them put my car on and it read true.
There was mind crushingly vast variation between cars produced by the TVR factory, and not only for weight.
The only rule of thumb you can have for Cerbs was that the frame from 1999/2000 on seemed a lot lighter, and more likely to rust. Feeling the wheel arches in the car showed two distinct thicknesses. The thicker were the heavier cars and more likey to run wheels on the wheelarches, but there didn't seem to be a leter or earlier distinction with the thickness, its just seemed to be which mold you got?
I don't thinks quoting weights for the type of TVR has really any meaning.
It always surprises me just how heavy GRP is. I guess at the factory, different teams or people made the shells differently. An extra layer over the whole car probably makes a big difference? But a 300kg range seems huge!There was mind crushingly vast variation between cars produced by the TVR factory, and not only for weight.
The only rule of thumb you can have for Cerbs was that the frame from 1999/2000 on seemed a lot lighter, and more likely to rust. Feeling the wheel arches in the car showed two distinct thicknesses. The thicker were the heavier cars and more likey to run wheels on the wheelarches, but there didn't seem to be a leter or earlier distinction with the thickness, its just seemed to be which mold you got?
I don't thinks quoting weights for the type of TVR has really any meaning.
julian64 said:
Yep I had no explanation for those differences. It is a huge difference for what looks like the exact same car. Probbaly the best that I didn't weigh was mike saunders GT challenge Cerbera which was reputed to be under 1000kg!!. But he removed half the GRP for that
It's easy to imagine that the GRP layup process wasn't higely quality controlled. Would be interesting to learn what the typical weight of a shell is without the rest of the car so as to get a clearer picture of the scale of the difference. It seems to almost imply that some shells are twice as heavy as others? Does that seem possible?
DonkeyApple said:
julian64 said:
Yep I had no explanation for those differences. It is a huge difference for what looks like the exact same car. Probbaly the best that I didn't weigh was mike saunders GT challenge Cerbera which was reputed to be under 1000kg!!. But he removed half the GRP for that
It's easy to imagine that the GRP layup process wasn't hugely quality controlled. Would be interesting to learn what the typical weight of a shell is without the rest of the car so as to get a clearer picture of the scale of the difference. It seems to almost imply that some shells are twice as heavy as others? Does that seem possible?
With a new TVR on the horizon don't everyone think its a bit to much to get excited about as we've only been shown a few artist impressions
of what is very similar to the Sagaris which cost new 50.000 can you afford the new price which has got to be being realistic and British around the price 80.000 and the deposit can only escalate for development at Millbrook proving ground ? the waiting list could be years but after all that, it could be a huge disappointment just as when the Russians did and put the name on wind turbines and why is it that Les Edgar a games developer who i believe only has a passion for profit and not much in engineering and needs Gordon Murray what's happened to The T25
of what is very similar to the Sagaris which cost new 50.000 can you afford the new price which has got to be being realistic and British around the price 80.000 and the deposit can only escalate for development at Millbrook proving ground ? the waiting list could be years but after all that, it could be a huge disappointment just as when the Russians did and put the name on wind turbines and why is it that Les Edgar a games developer who i believe only has a passion for profit and not much in engineering and needs Gordon Murray what's happened to The T25
Dear TVR Depositeer,
Exciting times are here and you're part of them.
By way of a quick update, we wanted to again thank all of you who have ordered the new TVR - it promises to be a fantastic car and, despite our reticence to disclose more concrete details right now, we can assure you that development (and specification) is well progressed - a lot further than the various forums appear to conclude!
In the meantime however, there have been a number of questions raised since we started to take deposits and we thought we'd take this opportunity to address the most relevant.
Firstly, there has been a significant response to the opening of the order book and this resulted initially in a system overload at our end. We processed a large number of deposit requests manually as a result. People placing their orders by phone may experience a delay in receiving their confirmation receipts, but let me assure you that all deposit requests were correctly logged and are being processed onto our system such that you will receive an email confirmation and receipt early this week. Assuming your payment has been received, this delay will not affect your position on the list adversely.
However, if you have placed an order and requested to pay by bank transfer or cheque, your order cannot be processed until funds are received by us, cleared in the bank. Therefore, if you are in this category we strongly urge you to ensure payment has been processed correctly. Failure to submit cleared funds within 5 working days of your order will result in your order being cancelled. We have to be strict on this as there are others wanting to have as early a slot as possible, and we intend to close the LE car list in the near future.
Secondly, if you have placed an order under the TVRCC reduced deposit scheme, please note that it takes a little time to verify that you qualify for this (current member for at least 6 months). We do send out deposit receipts (for cleared funds paid on-line) before we verify your membership details, so it is possible that, in the event you do not qualify, we will need to contact you to address this. In this event, we will offer you the option to top-up your deposit amount rather than automatically rejecting your order. We must stick to this rule in support of those who do qualify, otherwise it makes a nonsense of the scheme.
Finally, There have been a number of queries regarding the point at which the deposit becomes non-refundable. This will be the point at which we announce Price, Specifications or Styling and we will email all depositeers so that they have time to consider.
We hope the above sheds more light than darkness and look forward to passing further information to you soon.
Kind regards
Sales Team
Exciting times are here and you're part of them.
By way of a quick update, we wanted to again thank all of you who have ordered the new TVR - it promises to be a fantastic car and, despite our reticence to disclose more concrete details right now, we can assure you that development (and specification) is well progressed - a lot further than the various forums appear to conclude!
In the meantime however, there have been a number of questions raised since we started to take deposits and we thought we'd take this opportunity to address the most relevant.
Firstly, there has been a significant response to the opening of the order book and this resulted initially in a system overload at our end. We processed a large number of deposit requests manually as a result. People placing their orders by phone may experience a delay in receiving their confirmation receipts, but let me assure you that all deposit requests were correctly logged and are being processed onto our system such that you will receive an email confirmation and receipt early this week. Assuming your payment has been received, this delay will not affect your position on the list adversely.
However, if you have placed an order and requested to pay by bank transfer or cheque, your order cannot be processed until funds are received by us, cleared in the bank. Therefore, if you are in this category we strongly urge you to ensure payment has been processed correctly. Failure to submit cleared funds within 5 working days of your order will result in your order being cancelled. We have to be strict on this as there are others wanting to have as early a slot as possible, and we intend to close the LE car list in the near future.
Secondly, if you have placed an order under the TVRCC reduced deposit scheme, please note that it takes a little time to verify that you qualify for this (current member for at least 6 months). We do send out deposit receipts (for cleared funds paid on-line) before we verify your membership details, so it is possible that, in the event you do not qualify, we will need to contact you to address this. In this event, we will offer you the option to top-up your deposit amount rather than automatically rejecting your order. We must stick to this rule in support of those who do qualify, otherwise it makes a nonsense of the scheme.
Finally, There have been a number of queries regarding the point at which the deposit becomes non-refundable. This will be the point at which we announce Price, Specifications or Styling and we will email all depositeers so that they have time to consider.
We hope the above sheds more light than darkness and look forward to passing further information to you soon.
Kind regards
Sales Team
T4NGO said:
Dear TVR Depositeer,
Yea, I got that...one for the PH spelling/grammar police. Is 'Depositeer' even a word? And assuming it is, wouldn't the customer be the 'depositer', and thus TVR are the 'depositee'?Anyway, makes me feel like some minor hero along the lines of a Musketeer, a Buccaneer, or even Rocketeer...a Depositeer! Do we get capes of some sort, and should underpants be worn over trousers?
tvrolet said:
Yea, I got that...one for the PH spelling/grammar police. Is 'Depositeer' even a word? And assuming it is, wouldn't the customer be the 'depositer', and thus TVR are the 'depositee'?
Anyway, makes me feel like some minor hero along the lines of a Musketeer, a Buccaneer, or even Rocketeer...a Depositeer! Do we get capes of some sort, and should underpants be worn over trousers?
Underpants over trousers . Yep ..... that sounds about right.Anyway, makes me feel like some minor hero along the lines of a Musketeer, a Buccaneer, or even Rocketeer...a Depositeer! Do we get capes of some sort, and should underpants be worn over trousers?
ThePrisoner said:
tvrolet said:
Yea, I got that...one for the PH spelling/grammar police. Is 'Depositeer' even a word? And assuming it is, wouldn't the customer be the 'depositer', and thus TVR are the 'depositee'?
Anyway, makes me feel like some minor hero along the lines of a Musketeer, a Buccaneer, or even Rocketeer...a Depositeer! Do we get capes of some sort, and should underpants be worn over trousers?
Underpants over trousers . Yep ..... that sounds about right.Anyway, makes me feel like some minor hero along the lines of a Musketeer, a Buccaneer, or even Rocketeer...a Depositeer! Do we get capes of some sort, and should underpants be worn over trousers?
...don't forget what happened to Madge...
mr shifty said:
hanks for sharing 
I would love to place a deposit but as I need a 2+2 these days it would only be a gesture. Let's hope it's not too long before one follows. In the meantime I'll keep looking out for the right Cerb...
The perfect 2+2 - available at half the price of anything LE can come up http://www.str8six.co.uk/CAR%20SALES/page14/page14...I would love to place a deposit but as I need a 2+2 these days it would only be a gesture. Let's hope it's not too long before one follows. In the meantime I'll keep looking out for the right Cerb...
If LE comes up with anything like as good as this puppy he will be doing well in my eyes. Seriously desirable
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