2017 TVR predicted pricing
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Aston Martin V8V £87k Nice runabout for the wife.
Porsche 911 £74k Expected runabout for your accountant.
Porsche Cayman £40k Your son's car.
Lotus Evora £53k Your Head of IT's car.
Lotus Exige £56k Your Junior Programmer's car.
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k At £34k, you'd just buy it for the hoot!!
Re pricing for TVR's, I think anyone expecting them to be under £60k will be upset but how expensive they end up being has to be down to what savings the iStream process offers. If they were being built in the traditional way but benefiting from much higher quality shells and doors that all fit out of the box and using other modern tech gains for production I would guess you're going to be easily over £100k nowadays. But the iStream process is the real variable. If that massively cuts the number of people you need to employ and the space you need to rent then the cars could come in much lower.
My gut feeling is that they'll try to get prices as inline with the Evora as possible to start with but aim to move prices north as efficiently as possible.
Good someone on a similar page to me. I see the Evora as the most obvious car currently in the market vacated by TVR. It's pricing goes from £52k6 to £60k (£62k if you include the +2). Whilst the TVR will have a more premium interior and a V8 rather than a boosted V6, to stray too far north on the release pricing will end in tears IMHO. Which puts me back to where I think the base car should be, £60-65k..... There I've said it.....Porsche 911 £74k Expected runabout for your accountant.
Porsche Cayman £40k Your son's car.
Lotus Evora £53k Your Head of IT's car.
Lotus Exige £56k Your Junior Programmer's car.
Ford Mustang GT V8 £34k At £34k, you'd just buy it for the hoot!!
Re pricing for TVR's, I think anyone expecting them to be under £60k will be upset but how expensive they end up being has to be down to what savings the iStream process offers. If they were being built in the traditional way but benefiting from much higher quality shells and doors that all fit out of the box and using other modern tech gains for production I would guess you're going to be easily over £100k nowadays. But the iStream process is the real variable. If that massively cuts the number of people you need to employ and the space you need to rent then the cars could come in much lower.
My gut feeling is that they'll try to get prices as inline with the Evora as possible to start with but aim to move prices north as efficiently as possible.
Tvr Power said:
Please answer the following and explain how this can work ?
1 No Factory
2 No Studio Design as to this day
3 NO Engine Spec
4 NO Car
5 NO Car Assemblers
6 85K plus minimum virtual tvr
7 Most worrying no testing lets use the Customer as development puppies
Finally lets set up a dealer network and be told you can only buy From Tvr Parts not "True Tvr Heritage Specialist"
Dom
1) not yet, this is true1 No Factory
2 No Studio Design as to this day
3 NO Engine Spec
4 NO Car
5 NO Car Assemblers
6 85K plus minimum virtual tvr
7 Most worrying no testing lets use the Customer as development puppies
Finally lets set up a dealer network and be told you can only buy From Tvr Parts not "True Tvr Heritage Specialist"
Dom
2) not that we've seen - doesn't mean there's no design
3) again not released - yet, doesn't mean this isn't worked out
4) yes true, at this moment - not due to go on sale until 2017 though?
5) not that we know of- again we've no idea of whom is in the frame
6) 85K is the top and slightly in excess of whats been quoted its been consistently 55 to 80K
7) I doubt that very much, there will be development cars and testing
HarryW said:
Good someone on a similar page to me. I see the Evora as the most obvious car currently in the market vacated by TVR. It's pricing goes from £52k6 to £60k (£62k if you include the +2). Whilst the TVR will have a more premium interior and a V8 rather than a boosted V6, to stray too far north on the release pricing will end in tears IMHO. Which puts me back to where I think the base car should be, £60-65k..... There I've said it.....
Hi HarryW - Interesting debate, but you've forgotten the F-Type, which is probabaly the closest to a modern day TVR currently on sale. I don't see how TVR can build a cheaper car and I don't see how they can get significantly more performance? (I guess similar bhp, but maybe a lighter car.....?)The Evora interior is pretty impressive for a specialist car, I think the new TVR interior will struggle to be better than the Lotus, just different.
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
TVRinBFG said:
Hi HarryW - Interesting debate, but you've forgotten the F-Type, which is probabaly the closest to a modern day TVR currently on sale. I don't see how TVR can build a cheaper car and I don't see how they can get significantly more performance? (I guess similar bhp, but maybe a lighter car.....?)
The Evora interior is pretty impressive for a specialist car, I think the new TVR interior will struggle to be better than the Lotus, just different.
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
Fair point about the F Type, whilst the supercharged version is in the bracket at £51-60k ish the V8 R model is squarely in the AM V8V bracket at £87k, perhaps it's just me but I'd rather go AM than contribute to the JLR machine...The Evora interior is pretty impressive for a specialist car, I think the new TVR interior will struggle to be better than the Lotus, just different.
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
TVRinBFG said:
Finally £60k less 20% VAT; less 10% dealer margin; less circa 5% warranty insurance leaves £43300 back to the new TVR Factory, to build a car and make a profit....
I have been told that L.E. now intends to sell all new cars from the factory and not though dealerships...not sure how true that is?The issue regarding TVR's attitude towards the current Indies and the parts network issue does concern me, as i have no intention of taking it to RG/Heretage.
HarryW said:
Just to reiterate the point I'm trying to make yet again.
The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
I think we got your point but general view is that the automotive industry has moved on from 10 years ago therefore the price of the new TVR will be circa 70k basic, 80k an upwards fully loaded. You can keep on asking the same question but the answer is going to be the same!The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
SAGTAFF said:
HarryW said:
Just to reiterate the point I'm trying to make yet again.
The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
I think we got your point but general view is that the automotive industry has moved on from 10 years ago therefore the price of the new TVR will be circa 70k basic, 80k an upwards fully loaded. You can keep on asking the same question but the answer is going to be the same!The list price for the Sagaris 10 years ago was just over £50k, perhaps optioned it was £55k, or £57k for Doms one as stated in another thread. At the same time the T350 was just under £40k list......
Not sure if that 'we' just includes you, your (royal) household or the nation... Can you expand on where you get your price point from though, I'm interested to understand.I have laid out historic TVR price points, hence the niche they sat in and extrapolated to current levels using the compound inflation, which is a fair if not exact measure. I could have pointed out that actually car prices have not kept up with inflation and are actually cheaper in real terms today than they were then. A couple of examples the V8V quoted below was £80k in 06, which means applying inflation means it should be £106k, but it's £87k. The 911 C2 was £59k extrapolated is £78k and so on.
Don't misunderstand me, I fully realise that TVR can charge what the hell it likes, the nub of my initial and continued question is can those that say it should be at the top of the estimated bracket please explain why you think it will be...
Edited by HarryW on Monday 7th September 22:47
You could look at it a little differently though. By breaking down what the core costs are for a modest start up car firm in the UK today versus ten years ago there are some big changes.
Land rental is much more expensive, as is personnel employment. Those are two very big costs for this type of firm. In addition, legislation compliance is considerably more costly.
And finally, production standards are arguably a magnitude higher in the market place. When you are building on a big scale then your robots can meet this demand but a hand but car will require vastly more human input and of a much higher skill set than ten years ago to stand a chance of meeting today's expectations.
I would guess there is a plausible argument that hand building a car today or producing in low volume is massively more costly than a decade ago.
In my mind, it does all seem to rest on just what benefits this iStream process has or whether the majority of the major components will be made overseas where land and staff are cheaper as well as quality/accuracy higher and the UK is just an assembly point etc?
In short, God knows how they are going to build a product that meets 21st century quality expectations for a price that is within the brand tolerance. And if no one in the industry has seemingly got wind of who is being employed and where the assembly line is it seems valid to question a 2017 delivery date.
Land rental is much more expensive, as is personnel employment. Those are two very big costs for this type of firm. In addition, legislation compliance is considerably more costly.
And finally, production standards are arguably a magnitude higher in the market place. When you are building on a big scale then your robots can meet this demand but a hand but car will require vastly more human input and of a much higher skill set than ten years ago to stand a chance of meeting today's expectations.
I would guess there is a plausible argument that hand building a car today or producing in low volume is massively more costly than a decade ago.
In my mind, it does all seem to rest on just what benefits this iStream process has or whether the majority of the major components will be made overseas where land and staff are cheaper as well as quality/accuracy higher and the UK is just an assembly point etc?
In short, God knows how they are going to build a product that meets 21st century quality expectations for a price that is within the brand tolerance. And if no one in the industry has seemingly got wind of who is being employed and where the assembly line is it seems valid to question a 2017 delivery date.
The comments we printed in Sprint from Les about the iStream project indicate that the only 'factory' required is a a suitably sized modern unit with clear space in a location with good transport links. There are many of those available and they are in discussions over a few premises.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
This thread is all about how to make the impossible. Its almost an unwinnable game for TVR full of compromise.
I think they should go back to their kit car roots.
You order a Guffalo from TVR it costs £40K. Two days later a man delivers a giant crate to your door. Inside the crate is a rolling chassis and all the parts packaged up and fitted into the crate like a chinese puzzle. Everything you need to build the car is in the crate.
You spend the next six months chatting on PH about the build. Once completed you take the car back to TVR for a shake down check and paperwork.
This fixes the smug sense of achievement most TVR owners have, it allows edgar to continue with no factory, and very little responsibility for the produced car, and the buyer gets a giant killer for half the money it should of cost, just like the old days.
I think they should go back to their kit car roots.
You order a Guffalo from TVR it costs £40K. Two days later a man delivers a giant crate to your door. Inside the crate is a rolling chassis and all the parts packaged up and fitted into the crate like a chinese puzzle. Everything you need to build the car is in the crate.
You spend the next six months chatting on PH about the build. Once completed you take the car back to TVR for a shake down check and paperwork.
This fixes the smug sense of achievement most TVR owners have, it allows edgar to continue with no factory, and very little responsibility for the produced car, and the buyer gets a giant killer for half the money it should of cost, just like the old days.
V8 GRF said:
The comments we printed in Sprint from Les about the iStream project indicate that the only 'factory' required is a a suitably sized modern unit with clear space in a location with good transport links. There are many of those available and they are in discussions over a few premises.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
You should have been a politician ! Simple question please answer my concerns above
Dom
Tvr Power said:
V8 GRF said:
The comments we printed in Sprint from Les about the iStream project indicate that the only 'factory' required is a a suitably sized modern unit with clear space in a location with good transport links. There are many of those available and they are in discussions over a few premises.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
You should have been a politician ! Simple question please answer my concerns above
Dom
I suspect that the car will be circa £60/65K for the basic spec and that they will release more expensive cars shortly thereafter ie same basic car but with higher bhp, enhanced brakes and damping... These cars will likely be disproportionately more expensive.
I wish them luck and hope that they can get a car launched, that it lives up to what most of us want, that they can sell a bucket full and that they turn a decent profit.
Would also be great to see a TVR race series based on the road cars. Maybe with the older TVRs providing a support race/series.
I wish them luck and hope that they can get a car launched, that it lives up to what most of us want, that they can sell a bucket full and that they turn a decent profit.
Would also be great to see a TVR race series based on the road cars. Maybe with the older TVRs providing a support race/series.
V8 GRF said:
Tvr Power said:
V8 GRF said:
The comments we printed in Sprint from Les about the iStream project indicate that the only 'factory' required is a a suitably sized modern unit with clear space in a location with good transport links. There are many of those available and they are in discussions over a few premises.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
All the design elements are clearly in place and very few (if any) manufacturers with any sense show their designs until they're ready to break cover.
Legislation compliance for the low volume niche they're in is achievable in a straightforward manner at sensible levels of investment.
You should have been a politician ! Simple question please answer my concerns above
Dom
Dom
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