Radiators in Sprint / TVR parts

[Sevenman]

Reading the small piece on page 6 of April's Sprint magazine about the reintroduction of of aluminium / plastic radiators:

Sprint / TVR parts said:

"The aluminium / plastic type radiator is an ideal construction for use in TVRs as it offers more flexibility and compliance in use. A welded aluminium radiator is more of a race car solution and can crack in use as it does not have the necessary compliance to allow it to flex under the rigours of driving in the UK".

When my original rad started leaking a few years back I had it swapped for an all alloy one from TVR Power which has worked well for the 4 years since. Little did I know I was making a poor choice. Many TVRs must have these inflexible radiators and probably have all sorts of problems. I don't recall seeing much on the forums though...

I never really thought of a radiator as a part that needed compliance, and I wouldn't want to fit fragile 'race' parts (which must have an easy life) to a road car.

Any thoughts / suggestions before I bin the alloy rad for one of these newly stocked OEM standard pieces?

[alex_gray255]

Lol! Been having conversations about radiators and flex a lot the last week or so.

There is a chap in my region having lots of interesting... "fun" with radiators atm who has
a specialist name he told me about last week. I've run into them before and was most impressed, but forgotten their details.

I'll ask him again and then post the name.

Edited by alex_gray255 on Saturday 9th April 14:48

[Willfin]

I think it's a misnomer.

The flex will be absolutely minimal, and in any case as long as it's mounted on rubber fixings, with rubber pipes etc I'll be happily continuing to use an alloy radiator as an upgrade.

[simonwedge]

I must know of 4 or 5 instances of TVR ally rads cracking in our region of TVRCC. I've just had a new one for my Griff and went for original construction for exactly this reason.

I should add that the rad supplier in question (same for all of them and I'm talking about the manufacturer here rather than the distributor) replaced them all without question but that's not really the point.

Edited by simonwedge on Sunday 10th April 09:40

[Bassfiend229hp]

simonwedge said:

I must know of 4 or 5 instances of TVR ally rads cracking in our region of TVRCC. I've just had a new one for my Griff and went for original construction for exactly this reason.

I should add that the rad supplier in question (same for all of them and I'm talking about the manufacturer here rather than the distributor) replaced them all without question but that's not really the point.

Edited by simonwedge on Sunday 10th April 09:40

I've had two aluminium radiators split on me ... the first was replaced under warranty, the second split out of warranty so I gave up and bought a standard one again.

Phil

[Tvr Power]

Sevenman said:

Reading the small piece on page 6 of April's Sprint magazine about the reintroduction of of aluminium / plastic radiators:

Sprint / TVR parts said:

"The aluminium / plastic type radiator is an ideal construction for use in TVRs as it offers more flexibility and compliance in use. A welded aluminium radiator is more of a race car solution and can crack in use as it does not have the necessary compliance to allow it to flex under the rigours of driving in the UK".

When my original rad started leaking a few years back I had it swapped for an all alloy one from TVR Power which has worked well for the 4 years since. Little did I know I was making a poor choice. Many TVRs must have these inflexible radiators and probably have all sorts of problems. I don't recall seeing much on the forums though...

I never really thought of a radiator as a part that needed compliance, and I wouldn't want to fit fragile 'race' parts (which must have an easy life) to a road car.

Any thoughts / suggestions before I bin the alloy rad for one of these newly stocked OEM standard pieces?

Desperate marketing Racing Green "Tvr Parts theirs only 2 reason why an aluminum Radiators will fail, installed incorrectly or there is an head gasket issue, this is the difference between engineers and bullst sales, as for The Sprint Magazine allowing this to be printed is despicable , hope this answers all your questions


Dom

[Milky400]

I have been told by a radiator engineer/manufacturer of more than just automotive rads too, even produces rads for the spitfires stationed at Duxford, so in my eyes a specialist in all things cooling. His advice to me was to steer clear of alloy rads due to the OP comment. Cooling performance wise they show little benefit in a standard automotive environment.

Not discounting your comments Dom and I do consider you up there with your supreme knowledge, however I do disagree with you here. Fitted correctly or not, alloy rads are more prone to fractures/failures and offer little to no benefit over the traditional spec.

Edited by Milky400 on Monday 11th April 20:06

[Andav469]

Milky400 said:

I have been told by a radiator engineer/manufacturer of more than just automotive rads too, even produces rads for the spitfires stationed at Duxford, so in my eyes a specialist in all things cooling. His advice to me was to steer clear of alloy rads due to the OP comment. Cooling performance wise they show little benefit in a standard automotive environment.

Not discounting your comments Dom and I do consider you up there with your supreme knowledge, however I do disagree with you here. Fitted correctly or not, alloy rads are more prone to fractures/failures and offer little to no benefit over the traditional spec.

Edited by Milky400 on Monday 11th April 20:06

An alloy rad is not more efficient in cooling, they are used in racing due to reduced weight

[Milky400]

So are there for more efficient.

They do however hold a slightly larger volume of water so may not be as weight saving as we are told.

What do I know though I'm no real expert.

[Tvr Power]

Milky400 said:

So are there for more efficient.

They do however hold a slightly larger volume of water so may not be as weight saving as we are told.

What do I know though I'm no real expert.

The dark art of alloy radiators explained correctly.

Aluminium cored radiators are used due to the fact they have a better recovery rate over copper and brass, as well as a weight saving, alloy cored units can dissipate heat more efficiently due to their louvered fin and tube construction. The benefit of this is that its dramatically improves the recovery rate and helps the car achieve normal operating temperatures faster for example from sitting in traffic or on track. Aluminium radiators will not allow your car to run cooler once driving in normal conditions as the thermostat regulates the water temperature (obviously as long as the cars cooling system is working correctly) As for aluminium radiators not been strong enough and cracking this is not a fair comment, a radiator would only crack for 3 reasons: poor fitment, engine issues (head gasket etc.…) and thermal load, however this would be the same for an aluminium cored radiator with plastic end tanks as it is the vacuum braise around the tubes that cracks not the actual alloy tanks, in fact the plastic end tanks are more susceptible to leak as they are crimped together using a rubber seal that perishes and leaks over time, the only reason this radiator is used in car manufacture is the fact that it is cheap to manufacture compared to a bespoke built all aluminium unit. The original copper and brass radiators had to be lead loaded by 20% to achieve their strength hampering their performance.

Hope this answers all your questions

Dom

[Sardonicus]

I see a few OE vehicles with all alloy rads inc end tanks and these are no more prone to failure than plastic/alloy rads (current vehicles T cars inc) they have all been out there long enough here is a Clio rad I am not going with this TVR tub flexing issue either just how much flex do you think these late run-of-the-mill cars have? with their plastic front panels etc its all in the correct mounting IMO

[phazed]

A good explanation Dom.

When I fitted my Ally rad about 12K miles ago I noticed that the mountings were out of square and that if i had bolted the rad in place not paying attention to this then the rad would have been under stress and may have presumably failed prematurely.

I had to pack the rubber mounts to obtain a "flat" fit of the rad.

Obviously no problems since fitting!

[sonnylad]

alex_gray255 said:

Lol! Been having conversations about radiators and flex a lot the last week or so.

There is a chap in my region having lots of interesting... "fun" with radiators atm who has
a specialist name he told me about last week. I've run into them before and was most impressed, but forgotten their details.

I'll ask him again and then post the name.

Edited by alex_gray255 on Saturday 9th April 14:48

Hi Alex,

It was these guys i mentioned:

http://www.radicool-fabrications.co.uk/index.html

[Andy_mr2sc]

Are all of these problematic radiators coming from the same source?

[phazed]

Mine was from Aaron Radiators.

Always had good reports about them.

[Matthew Poxon]

My Radtec radiator failed after about 5 years, my specialist did say alluminum radiators are prone to cracking due to the flex in TVRs. I was tempted to revert back to OEM but when I spoke to Radtec they were really good and explained that in very rare circumstances they can spilt and that they have now adjusted the design to make them stronger. As an offer of good will they sold me a replacement half price. 3 years with the new one no issues yet.

Also worth noting that my car does not have the easiest life, the radiator that split was subjected to an number of 80mph + spins onto grass at trackdays which cannot do it any good.

[Cerberaherts]

My radtec has been in since 2010. The car lived in a very hot climate until 2012 and have had no problems since fitting. I've also fitted radtec's to other tvr's and have had no problems. Often the mounting bobbins aren't aligned properly etc which causes the issues. I wouldn't fit that plastic ended-garbage, seen too many failures in many makes of car caused by their construction....

[griffdude]

Sevenman said:

Reading the small piece on page 6 of April's Sprint magazine about the reintroduction of of aluminium / plastic radiators:

Sprint / TVR parts said:

"The aluminium / plastic type radiator is an ideal construction for use in TVRs as it offers more flexibility and compliance in use. A welded aluminium radiator is more of a race car solution and can crack in use as it does not have the necessary compliance to allow it to flex under the rigours of driving in the UK".

When my original rad started leaking a few years back I had it swapped for an all alloy one from TVR Power which has worked well for the 4 years since. Little did I know I was making a poor choice. Many TVRs must have these inflexible radiators and probably have all sorts of problems. I don't recall seeing much on the forums though...

I never really thought of a radiator as a part that needed compliance, and I wouldn't want to fit fragile 'race' parts (which must have an easy life) to a road car.

Any thoughts / suggestions before I bin the alloy rad for one of these newly stocked OEM standard pieces?

I've obviously been lucky then as have had my race spec Ali rad in my Griffith for 14 years & 60,000 miles. From here-
http://www.dockingengineering.com/

[zed4]

Matthew Poxon said:

My Radtec radiator failed after about 5 years, my specialist did say alluminum radiators are prone to cracking due to the flex in TVRs. I was tempted to revert back to OEM but when I spoke to Radtec they were really good and explained that in very rare circumstances they can spilt and that they have now adjusted the design to make them stronger. As an offer of good will they sold me a replacement half price. 3 years with the new one no issues yet.

Also worth noting that my car does not have the easiest life, the radiator that split was subjected to an number of 80mph + spins onto grass at trackdays which cannot do it any good.

Interesting. My Radtec has just sprung a leak and dumped all its coolant on my garage floor. I’ll get in touch with them and see if they can do anything.

[Wildfire]

I fitted my Radtec around 2007/8 I think. Still going and no issues. I did make sure that I mounted it on a decent set of rubber bushes.