New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
t... 
m4tti said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's exactly the point he is making. For marketing purposes it just needs the paper win to have the impact.
I'm not sure people with 80k to spunk on a new car are that stupid anymore. Option A: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, slower than its competitors
Option B: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, faster than its competitors
Surely anyone stupid enough to go for option B, which is what you're suggesting, is even more stupid to go for option A?
FarmyardPants said:
Ok, so everything else being constant:
Option A: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, slower than its competitors
Option B: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, faster than its competitors
Surely anyone stupid enough to go for option B, which is what you're suggesting, is even more stupid to go for option A?
You were referring to going in a straight line. I was referring to those interested in performance being a bit more discerning at that price point. In which case if all you want to do is go in a straight line you could buy a hot rod. If you want to have the pinnacle in performance and handling at the suggested price point you'll as I've suggested more than likely choose one of the used options I've highlighted already. Option A: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, slower than its competitors
Option B: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, faster than its competitors
Surely anyone stupid enough to go for option B, which is what you're suggesting, is even more stupid to go for option A?
I'm usually a follower rather than contributor to forums and hence have read and followed all comments. I may be old fashioned but for me TVR is in the DNA and once you own one there is usually a love and affection that is almost impossible to break or not have some fond memories no matter the experience. No, I am not rose tinted in my views. I had a 2nd hand Chim for 6 mths whilst my new Speed 6 cerb was built. It probably broke 3 times in those 6 months. I didn't cancel the order. My Cerb arrived (Rosso pearl and magnolia interior) and it was simply a stunning car. The interior dash/wheel etc. were sublime, but the engine still went phut. Sold due to kid arriving.
Did I move on, yes got an M3. Did I forget TVR, no I feckin did not. Continued to read all the forums, reviews, pains, gains etc. for 10 years as I loved the uniqueness. Then, bought a T350. I could have had a choice of many cars. Wife went nuts (based on above), shouting matches, but you know what, I wanted one badly cause I love TVRs. Nothing else touches them for the ALL round experience. Wife has had AMGs, 911s and I had an E46 M3 and currently an E92. Fast and very capable cars, none made me smile as much as the Cerb and now the T350. I have now had the T350 7 years in March and the Beemer same time but will have cost me multiple times the Tivver for various reasons even taking into consideration the mileage.
TVR - keep it simple. Unique styling (make people look and double take with wonder and smiles), light, fast (doesn't have to be fastest!), noisy, smile inducing whether a leisurely Sunday drive or a serious blat.
Did I move on, yes got an M3. Did I forget TVR, no I feckin did not. Continued to read all the forums, reviews, pains, gains etc. for 10 years as I loved the uniqueness. Then, bought a T350. I could have had a choice of many cars. Wife went nuts (based on above), shouting matches, but you know what, I wanted one badly cause I love TVRs. Nothing else touches them for the ALL round experience. Wife has had AMGs, 911s and I had an E46 M3 and currently an E92. Fast and very capable cars, none made me smile as much as the Cerb and now the T350. I have now had the T350 7 years in March and the Beemer same time but will have cost me multiple times the Tivver for various reasons even taking into consideration the mileage.
TVR - keep it simple. Unique styling (make people look and double take with wonder and smiles), light, fast (doesn't have to be fastest!), noisy, smile inducing whether a leisurely Sunday drive or a serious blat.
cammy71 said:
I'm usually a follower rather than contributor to forums and hence have read and followed all comments. I may be old fashioned but for me TVR is in the DNA and once you own one there is usually a love and affection that is almost impossible to break or not have some fond memories no matter the experience. No, I am not rose tinted in my views. I had a 2nd hand Chim for 6 mths whilst my new Speed 6 cerb was built. It probably broke 3 times in those 6 months. I didn't cancel the order. My Cerb arrived (Rosso pearl and magnolia interior) and it was simply a stunning car. The interior dash/wheel etc. were sublime, but the engine still went phut. Sold due to kid arriving.
Did I move on, yes got an M3. Did I forget TVR, no I feckin did not. Continued to read all the forums, reviews, pains, gains etc. for 10 years as I loved the uniqueness. Then, bought a T350. I could have had a choice of many cars. Wife went nuts (based on above), shouting matches, but you know what, I wanted one badly cause I love TVRs. Nothing else touches them for the ALL round experience. Wife has had AMGs, 911s and I had an E46 M3 and currently an E92. Fast and very capable cars, none made me smile as much as the Cerb and now the T350. I have now had the T350 7 years in March and the Beemer same time but will have cost me multiple times the Tivver for various reasons even taking into consideration the mileage.
TVR - keep it simple. Unique styling (make people look and double take with wonder and smiles), light, fast (doesn't have to be fastest!), noisy, smile inducing whether a leisurely Sunday drive or a serious blat.
Great post, really sums up what TVR is about. You don't buy one for paper figures.Did I move on, yes got an M3. Did I forget TVR, no I feckin did not. Continued to read all the forums, reviews, pains, gains etc. for 10 years as I loved the uniqueness. Then, bought a T350. I could have had a choice of many cars. Wife went nuts (based on above), shouting matches, but you know what, I wanted one badly cause I love TVRs. Nothing else touches them for the ALL round experience. Wife has had AMGs, 911s and I had an E46 M3 and currently an E92. Fast and very capable cars, none made me smile as much as the Cerb and now the T350. I have now had the T350 7 years in March and the Beemer same time but will have cost me multiple times the Tivver for various reasons even taking into consideration the mileage.
TVR - keep it simple. Unique styling (make people look and double take with wonder and smiles), light, fast (doesn't have to be fastest!), noisy, smile inducing whether a leisurely Sunday drive or a serious blat.
FarmyardPants said:
m4tti said:
DonkeyApple said:
That's exactly the point he is making. For marketing purposes it just needs the paper win to have the impact.
I'm not sure people with 80k to spunk on a new car are that stupid anymore. Option A: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, slower than its competitors
Option B: buy a sportscar that is, on paper, faster than its competitors
Surely anyone stupid enough to go for option B, which is what you're suggesting, is even more stupid to go for option A?
A petrolhead friend of mine, who usually buys 'German' has just got the Audi RS6 with performance pack, just over 600 Bhp, so a potential 'Buyer' with regards to budget.
In the past, he'd never consider a Tvr, as too basic/unreliable/badly made/bad handling. When I asked what would make him buy a new Tvr
He stated;-
1) Handling - you've got to be able to put the power down that you have.
2) Power - enough to compare/be better than other 'sports' cars.
3) Looks - Must stand out.
4) Interior - must be well made, inventive & modern.
He acknowledges that the RS6 is heavy, but with Quattro 4wd, even with its power (which is in another league to the 300-400 Bhp cars he's had), it's a great combination, with a top quality interior.
He does like the Lotus 400 & Exige, but needed 4 seats this time.
This is what Tvr has to provide.
In the past, he'd never consider a Tvr, as too basic/unreliable/badly made/bad handling. When I asked what would make him buy a new Tvr
He stated;-
1) Handling - you've got to be able to put the power down that you have.
2) Power - enough to compare/be better than other 'sports' cars.
3) Looks - Must stand out.
4) Interior - must be well made, inventive & modern.
He acknowledges that the RS6 is heavy, but with Quattro 4wd, even with its power (which is in another league to the 300-400 Bhp cars he's had), it's a great combination, with a top quality interior.
He does like the Lotus 400 & Exige, but needed 4 seats this time.
This is what Tvr has to provide.
I feel that TVR will always struggle to steal buyer's away from the big powered German cars, as some of they are just too different.
A good friend of mine owned the V10 m5, and a 996 turbo s. Both extremely capable and fast cars, comfortable, reliable etc, etc. But I drove both, and they just didn't excite me, they were almost too good, and you lose the sense of speed a little, especially with the beemer as it was so heavy and polished. Every TVR that I've driven has been ALIVE and interesting in every way, and just feels exciting and gives you a sensory overload!
I just don't know how this new TVR can appeal to both camps and still keep what makes them special and different. I hope they don't try to complete with the current crop of polished and perfect machines, and make something raw, and analogue which is fundamentally great, in an overly technical era.
A good friend of mine owned the V10 m5, and a 996 turbo s. Both extremely capable and fast cars, comfortable, reliable etc, etc. But I drove both, and they just didn't excite me, they were almost too good, and you lose the sense of speed a little, especially with the beemer as it was so heavy and polished. Every TVR that I've driven has been ALIVE and interesting in every way, and just feels exciting and gives you a sensory overload!
I just don't know how this new TVR can appeal to both camps and still keep what makes them special and different. I hope they don't try to complete with the current crop of polished and perfect machines, and make something raw, and analogue which is fundamentally great, in an overly technical era.
I find this concept of 'exciting' when it comes to cars quite interesting... I was reading a thread on GG yesterday asking if your view of cars had changed as you got older, and inevitably the two wheel brigade joined in with 'I got a bike, cars just don't do it for me now' type comments and 'a bike is so much more exciting than a car'. Now, I've had fast bikes (and I fell off a few of them too), but this excitement thing made me wonder if 'exciting' was a euphemism for scared... and 'really exciting' was a euphemism for scared shi*less.. 
I also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
I also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
Probably. There's something nice about having a car in the garage which you have to be in the right mood to drive. As soon as you make a car uniformly easy and relaxing to drive regardless of the conditions or your state of mind it's just a Golf. It ceases to be anything particularly special or exciting or anything that's going to offer particularly strong emotions when you open the garage door. In fact, you wouldn't bother to put it back in the garage and will have left it on the drive. Just like a Golf.
Flaws are what makes true character and on top of that most modern sports cars are living off the flaws and excitement and history of their brand predecessors and aren't adding much in that regard themselves.
TVRs big problem is that they do catagorically have to try and engineer in to this car something that they never had to in the past and that is the 'Just like a Golf' factor. They need to sell cars to the people who buy 911s, ftypes etc and thatvmeans being appealing to accountants, lawyers, dentists etc.
Flaws are what makes true character and on top of that most modern sports cars are living off the flaws and excitement and history of their brand predecessors and aren't adding much in that regard themselves.
TVRs big problem is that they do catagorically have to try and engineer in to this car something that they never had to in the past and that is the 'Just like a Golf' factor. They need to sell cars to the people who buy 911s, ftypes etc and thatvmeans being appealing to accountants, lawyers, dentists etc.
ChilliWhizz said:
I find this concept of 'exciting' when it comes to cars quite interesting... I was reading a thread on GG yesterday asking if your view of cars had changed as you got older, and inevitably the two wheel brigade joined in with 'I got a bike, cars just don't do it for me now' type comments and 'a bike is so much more exciting than a car'. Now, I've had fast bikes (and I fell off a few of them too), but this excitement thing made me wonder if 'exciting' was a euphemism for scared... and 'really exciting' was a euphemism for scared shi*less..
I also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
Think you are spot on with this. From the comments we have seen from Les and Gordon I would expectI also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
1) It won't look as mad as a Sagaris
2) It won't have an interior as mental as a Cerbera
3) It won't scare the s*** out of you everytime you drive it like a Tuscan
Sad really
GTRene said:
I came across this picture, first I thought hey a TVR concept, but its a Alfa, beautiful lines a bit like the TVR concept.
Project Alfa Romeo 6c it said.
Its the 6c that I've currently got a letter of intent for at my local dealer. Decided against a deposit on the new tvr for a number of reasons and opted to go down the Italian route instead. Project Alfa Romeo 6c it said.
ChilliWhizz said:
I find this concept of 'exciting' when it comes to cars quite interesting... I was reading a thread on GG yesterday asking if your view of cars had changed as you got older, and inevitably the two wheel brigade joined in with 'I got a bike, cars just don't do it for me now' type comments and 'a bike is so much more exciting than a car'. Now, I've had fast bikes (and I fell off a few of them too), but this excitement thing made me wonder if 'exciting' was a euphemism for scared... and 'really exciting' was a euphemism for scared shi*less..
I also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
This set me off wondering what folk that had previously owned one of the later TVRs would actually accept/reject as acceptable/unacceptable just due to the aging process the they have gone through? I also wonder if this is the root of comments such as 'it's not involving enough for me' or 'I just didn't connect with it'. I wonder if these comments actually mean 'it didn't try to kill me, not even once'..
Oft heard on the TVR forums here are 'damn thing tried to kill me again this morning', shirly this, and not knowing when the 'damn thing' might try again, is where a large chunk of the 'excitement' comes from? Is this why many of the other high performance cars aren't exciting, because they're engineered for anyone to drive and so don't attempt to take your life at the first slippery corner...
Notwithstanding the fact (as we all know) that TVR owners are all driving Gods, I do wonder if new TVR might be a bit dumbed down from its neanderthal predecessors in order to appeal to a wider market..
Anyway, just some random thoughts
Chilli
It's getting on for 11 or 12 years since the vast majority of folk drove a new TVR. I used to think they were a hoot.
However...knowing how I've changed and what I currently demand from my fun car, any TVR would have to be so much better and very different to the last crop of cars just down to me and how I've aged/changed.
Better/different or not different enough for new owners to be a disappointment because they've changed?
Just a thought from someone who walks past the TVR or the superbike in the garage to drive something else because it's easier to get the same fun from the something else..
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