New TVR still under wraps!

[V8 GMS]

bullittmcqueen said:

Does anyone agree with me if i say, that if one likes the general direction of the Ferrari F12, they'll probably like this one, too ?

Oooh yeah - I really like this ^^^ comment.

[Hughesie]

bullittmcqueen said:

Seen it yesterday. Liked it very much. Point that amazed me most was, how modern it actually looked and how deceiving the wraps have been. Looked very different from what i was expecting. Great rear, anyone behind will understand there's something serious in front of them.

Does anyone agree with me if i say, that if one likes the general direction of the Ferrari F12, he'll probably like this one, too ?

You were in the same session as me i think - did you have your son with you ?

I thought it looked a bit like a slightly smaller 599 side on - but then i'm biased, loved the rear also - reserved judgement on the front though till they confirm the grill and headlights.

[bullittmcqueen]

Hughesie said:

You were in the same session as me i think - did you have your son with you ?

I thought it looked a bit like a slightly smaller 599 side on - but then i'm biased, loved the rear also - reserved judgement on the front though till they confirm the grill and headlights.

Funny, yes, Les called him to join pulling the cover off. Still talking about it all the time. Did we talk to each other in person?

You're right about the 599 and the front also. I'm not that much into Ferraris and was not really aware of the 599. But F12/599 are both very good looking cars. I thought there were some stylistic analogies.

[Hughesie]

bullittmcqueen said:

Hughesie said:

You were in the same session as me i think - did you have your son with you ?

I thought it looked a bit like a slightly smaller 599 side on - but then i'm biased, loved the rear also - reserved judgement on the front though till they confirm the grill and headlights.

Funny, yes, Les called him to join pulling the cover off. Still talking about it all the time. Did we talk to each other in person?

You're right about the 599 and the front also. I'm not that much into Ferraris and was not really aware of the 599. But F12/599 are both very good looking cars. I thought there were some stylistic analogies.

Must've been a different session as we had a German with his son in the 10:00 and the cover was pulled off by a tall chap.

[bullittmcqueen]

Hughesie said:

Must've been a different session as we had a German with his son in the 10:00 and the cover was pulled off by a tall chap.

You're right, I was there at 4 pm.

[KEVTVR]

bullittmcqueen said:

You're right about the 599 and the front also. I'm not that much into Ferraris and was not really aware of the 599. But F12/599 are both very good looking cars. I thought there were some stylistic analogies.

Here we have the Ferrari F12 and a 599



And the Nissan concept car..somewhere inbetween the 2 would be good..

Edited by KEVTVR on Monday 27th March 14:14

[Whitey]

Any mention of a convertible?

[bullittmcqueen]

KEVTVR said:

Here we have the Ferrari F12 and a 599



And the Nissan concept car..somewhere inbetween the 2 would be good..

Edited by KEVTVR on Monday 27th March 14:14

Given these two pictures in it's overall approach it's closer to the F12-proportions and elements, imo, but don't get me wrong, it does not look like an F12, especially not around the front. It is a TVR.

[Hughesie]

Whitey said:

Any mention of a convertible?

Yes, 2020ish - And not before according to Les.

[Sagbrit]

KEVTVR said:

bullittmcqueen said:

You're right about the 599 and the front also. I'm not that much into Ferraris and was not really aware of the 599. But F12/599 are both very good looking cars. I thought there were some stylistic analogies.

Here we have the Ferrari F12 and a 599



And the Nissan concept car..somewhere inbetween the 2 would be good..

Edited by KEVTVR on Monday 27th March 14:14

[RichB]

Sagbrit said:

KEVTVR said:

bullittmcqueen said:

You're right about the 599 and the front also. I'm not that much into Ferraris and was not really aware of the 599. But F12/599 are both very good looking cars. I thought there were some stylistic analogies.

Here we have the Ferrari F12 and a 599


And the Nissan concept car..somewhere inbetween the 2 would be good..

Sagaris is the best looking of those

[essexstu]

BeastMaster said:

Max_Torque said:

Does it? Good design is one small part of 'high reliability' the other parts, which for an typical passenger car are actually much more onerous, are the Build and Validation programs that leverage that high reliability design.

The reason something like a Small modern hatchback is more reliable than ever before, despite being something like 10x as complex as ever before is due in no small part to the massive validation program for that design and the pre-production / continuous quality validation of the supply and manufacture/build programs.

All those things cost vast sums of money!

Of course it does - because Gordon Murray and Cosworth are not going to allow TVR to ruin their reputation by building a dog in the same way Norman Foster would not allow his building designs to be marred by cowboy builders !!!

The new TVR (like all that have gone before) is not going to be, or expected to be a high reliability design like a modern small hatchback – it will be as TVR models that have gone before, a low volume, value for money high performance car first.

Anyway – it was never the design of the cars that caused the unreliability of them it was the build quality caused by rushing the things into the market place, something which is not happening today – so a good sign.

A massive and costly validation program and pre production process is no guarantee of high reliability and would make a low volume production run totally cost prohibitive, while also being pointless for such a narrow focused car.

Reliability shouldn't be an issue this time. 36 months full warranty is being given & the mechanicals etc are all tried and tested components. TVR isn't using parts made by themselves, they are customising other manufacturers parts.

[Snakes]

Whitey said:

Any mention of a convertible?

In my session Les just said that the iStream structure above the car was non-load bearing so a convertible was a possibility for the future without any difficulty.

[bullittmcqueen]

Snakes said:

In my session Les just said that the iStream structure above the car was non-load bearing so a convertible was a possibility for the future without any difficulty.

Small Series Type Approval, which they are going for, allows for 1000 cars per year in the entire EU per type. I guess that they will have the convertible as the second type to double the possible sales. Coupe only must not exceed 1000 cars/year in all of the EU. Not sure what Brexit will do with this, but i cannot imagine them ignoring european/international markets after Brexit.

[essexstu]

bullittmcqueen said:

Small Series Type Approval, which they are going for, allows for 1000 cars per year in the entire EU per type. I guess that they will have the convertible as the second type to double the possible sales. Coupe only must not exceed 1000 cars/year in all of the EU. Not sure what Brexit will do with this, but i cannot imagine them ignoring european/international markets after Brexit.

Les said low volume type approval allowed up to 2000 units per annum

[AOK]

T37 will be double the cost of most of the old T cars



As such, unfortunately I don't think a restriction of 2,000 pa (or even 1,000 pa) is something Les & co are particularly worried about

[GTrr]

KEVTVR said:

Here we have the Ferrari F12 and a 599

Edited by KEVTVR on Monday 27th March 14:14

Ah, my favourite cars. Hopefully the new TVR will be similar in visual impact but with true TVR features.
Must say quite disappointing that we now still don't know what it will look like ...

[8ball_Rob]

AOK said:

T37 will be double the cost of most of the old T cars

What about inflation though? The Bank of England has a useful inflation calculator here. It only goes up to 2016, but apparently inflation has averaged 2.8% since 2000, so we can extrapolate ahead from 2016 to 2018 by multiplying by 1.028^2. This gives the following equivalent prices when new for the T cars. The last column shows the equivalent 'premium' that you would be paying for the T37, based on a purchase price of £89,999 in 2018:

Model	Year	Price when new	2016 equivalent	2018 (estimated)	T37 'premium'
Tuscan	2000	50,045	77,302.32	81,691.85	10.17%
Tamora	2001	37,410	56,779.81	60,003.99	49.99%
T350	2002	40,550	60,536.23	63,973.72	40.68%
Sagaris	2005	49,995	68,506.29	72,396.35	24.31%

NB in order to compare apples with apples, where I could find a range of values for 'price when new', I've taken the upper end of the range on the basis that the LE of the new car will be the most expensive version possible (all options ticked). These prices when new were just based on some quick Google searching - let me know if any of them are wide of the mark!

So it looks like the T37 is indeed more expensive, but nowhere near double the price of the T cars - at worst it's 50% more when compared to the Tamora, and only a 10% markup on the launch price of a Tuscan with all the options ticked.

[bullittmcqueen]

essexstu said:

Les said low volume type approval allowed up to 2000 units per annum

"... The production limit for both cars and light vans / light trucks is 1000 per type each year in the whole of the EU. ... "

from http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/ec-small-ser...

I was asking too and the answer i got was that the convertible will be a separate type (there seems to be some room for maneuver here), hence 2000 units with that approach. But that still means only 1000 Coupes per year in all of the EU. What happens post-Brexit is hard to tell as i cannot imagine that there will be free UK-volume and they can retain the EU-units in addition to that.

But approval strategy might change over time anyway.

[bullittmcqueen]

GTrr said:

Ah, my favourite cars. Hopefully the new TVR will be similar in visual impact but with true TVR features.
Must say quite disappointing that we now still don't know what it will look like ...

That was what i wanted to say. It does (at least in my opinion).