New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
NuddyRap said:
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As a round figure of £10m, without saying too much, to meet a major OEM's development costs, you need powers of 10 beyond the 1x10^7 that TVR have so far declared.
I'd love to be able to sit down and look at the new TVR's business model, because based on my fishing around and general feeling on the matter, I struggle to see it. The limitation is the "I" bit in there since my back-of-hand workings out are only as strong as their weakest part (Me).
I want it to be great, but... well....
http://www.bluehone.com/news/2016/3/22/kmp3w5n3oey...
Also, they are only planning for peak production of up to 2000 cars/year in 2022 and they also got a 10 year plan that must have been signed of by quite a few people:
http://gov.wales/newsroom/firstminister/2016/16032...
One can assume that the backers are well informed, have seen the car and various iterations long before us and have given their go. It's not like Les and David are sitting years in their living-room and are figuring out it could look like, build a model, show it to us and cross their fingers hoping it works out. Also, while the whole project is not secret as such, it is currently pretty much non-existing in the mainstream media besides a small, special interest group. This is probably a good thing at this time, it is also going to change in the next few months and it will have a tremendous impact on coverage, perception, ultimately brand-recognition and ultimately, sales.
Did anyone else think that the Les Tiv has the look of a Ginetta about it? You need to ignore the big rear wing and straighten the line from the top of the front wing to the top of the rear wing in the pic below then I think you get a pretty close approximation.
I have to say I didn't think the model did the form justice. For a start I felt it would have given a MUCH better impression sitting on proper wheels and tyres - I think it will look a lot different (better) as a finished vehicle. David Seesing if you happen to read this, PLEASE change that awkward slash in the front wing to gills like the Ginetta - so much sexier!
I have to say I didn't think the model did the form justice. For a start I felt it would have given a MUCH better impression sitting on proper wheels and tyres - I think it will look a lot different (better) as a finished vehicle. David Seesing if you happen to read this, PLEASE change that awkward slash in the front wing to gills like the Ginetta - so much sexier!
Edited by petepetrolhead on Wednesday 29th March 02:12
GTrr said:
Important point: in the days of the Griff and the T cars the TVR's were way cheaper than 911's and had more power (to weight). That will not be the case anymore so it will have to be very good and/or very special to be able to compete. In terms of performance and handling it will be very hard to beat the Porkers and what have you at that price level.
Please point me to the sub-100K Porsche model sporting a 400 bhp/ton power/weight ratio... 900T-R said:
GTrr said:
Important point: in the days of the Griff and the T cars the TVR's were way cheaper than 911's and had more power (to weight). That will not be the case anymore so it will have to be very good and/or very special to be able to compete. In terms of performance and handling it will be very hard to beat the Porkers and what have you at that price level.
Please point me to the sub-100K Porsche model sporting a 400 bhp/ton power/weight ratio... Drove a Jersey Reg Carrera 2 from Pompey docks last week diverting to Southampton Airport and whilst it did feel hewn from solid, it was just so uninspiring.....Now the previous week took an Alfa 8C to New Milton....that stirred the soul!!
Nick
bullittmcqueen said:
NuddyRap said:
...
As a round figure of £10m, without saying too much, to meet a major OEM's development costs, you need powers of 10 beyond the 1x10^7 that TVR have so far declared.
I'd love to be able to sit down and look at the new TVR's business model, because based on my fishing around and general feeling on the matter, I struggle to see it. The limitation is the "I" bit in there since my back-of-hand workings out are only as strong as their weakest part (Me).
I want it to be great, but... well....
http://www.bluehone.com/news/2016/3/22/kmp3w5n3oey...
bullittmcqueen said:
Also, they are only planning for peak production of up to 2000 cars/year in 2022
I hope they can hit that, but Lotus can't. The market is significantly different now and sports car customers are (literally) dying off. bullittmcqueen said:
One can assume that the backers are well informed
They must be comfortable with something, but I just don't see 'it' yet. Not that it actually matters, but I'd at least like to think another NS level fiasco is unlikely. TVR was probably my favourite car marque, largely because of the madness of the cars and I'm just a bit disappointed with TVR V2 based on what we know so far.KevinCamaroSS said:
Unfortunately I think TVR will be unlikely to hit a reasonable annual production run unless they offer hybrid/electric drive trains. Much to my annoyance that does appear to be where the future is. Todays new drivers appear more interested in connectivity than performance or soul.
IMO, the whole point of TVR is that they offer an antidote to those things.NuddyRap said:
They must be comfortable with something, but I just don't see 'it' yet. Not that it actually matters, but I'd at least like to think another NS level fiasco is unlikely. TVR was probably my favourite car marque, largely because of the madness of the cars and I'm just a bit disappointed with TVR V2 based on what we know so far.
I've seen a number of 30 Mio for the first five years in various articles. That should keep them running a while. I don't think their business model requires them to sell 2k. Don't know if they ever get to 2k cars but i expect wider interest after the public reveal, even in non-TVR circles. I've never owned one, so i'm one of the "new" customers that they will have to approach. I actually have a Lotus on my list as a fall-back, but it would clearly be second choice. While sharing some traits, it lacks the big V8 and bruteness. Porsches, Audis and Mercedes' are plain boring and i don't like the Italian marques at all. petepetrolhead said:
Did anyone else think that the Les Tiv has the look of a Ginetta about it? You need to ignore the big rear wing and straighten the line from the top of the front wing to the top of the rear wing in the pic below then I think you get a pretty close approximation.
I have to say I didn't think the model did the form justice. For a start I felt it would have given a MUCH better impression sitting on proper wheels and tyres - I think it will look a lot different (better) as a finished vehicle. David Seesing if you happen to read this, PLEASE change that awkward slash in the front wing to gills like the Ginetta - so much sexier!
They should have started with this :I have to say I didn't think the model did the form justice. For a start I felt it would have given a MUCH better impression sitting on proper wheels and tyres - I think it will look a lot different (better) as a finished vehicle. David Seesing if you happen to read this, PLEASE change that awkward slash in the front wing to gills like the Ginetta - so much sexier!
Edited by petepetrolhead on Wednesday 29th March 02:12
petepetrolhead said:
Did anyone else think that the Les Tiv has the look of a Ginetta about it?
errrrr....nope?I've always thought Ginettas have a kit-car look about them, and seem ill-proportioned. The new TVR had neither of these traits.
Given it's a front-engined hard-top 2-seater (oops, have I let the cat out of the bag?) there really isn't a whole lot of latitude in style. The silhouette of an Aston, Ferrari 599, Corvette Stingray, F-type really aren't miles apart.
petepetrolhead said:
David Seesing if you happen to read this, PLEASE change that awkward slash in the front wing to gills like the Ginetta - so much sexier!
nooooooooo! The slash looked cool and unique - loved it. The 'gills' on the Ginetta look cheap and kit-car-ish. Stingrays and 599s have decent slashes...but the TVR is the daddy in that department
Alex said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
Unfortunately I think TVR will be unlikely to hit a reasonable annual production run unless they offer hybrid/electric drive trains. Much to my annoyance that does appear to be where the future is. Todays new drivers appear more interested in connectivity than performance or soul.
IMO, the whole point of TVR is that they offer an antidote to those things.Personally I was heartened by the number of non-TVR owners at the reveal I attended. I don’t have the numbers, obviously, but would guess 60% of deposit holders at the session I attended were existing TVR owners, 40% first-time buyers, most under 40.
If this session was typical, it suggests to me that TVR are already reaching well beyond their traditional base. I just don’t buy that ‘sports car customers are dying off’, literally or otherwise, or that TVR need to offer ‘hybrid/electric drive trains’ for quite a while yet. I do agree the LE will either make or break them though, so it needs to be right from the start.
If this session was typical, it suggests to me that TVR are already reaching well beyond their traditional base. I just don’t buy that ‘sports car customers are dying off’, literally or otherwise, or that TVR need to offer ‘hybrid/electric drive trains’ for quite a while yet. I do agree the LE will either make or break them though, so it needs to be right from the start.
900T-R said:
Please point me to the sub-100K Porsche model sporting a 400 bhp/ton power/weight ratio...
OK the basic Carrera S at 90k pounds has 420 hp and weighs 1450 kg so less than 300 h/ton but it does 4.2 s to 100 kph and tops at 306 kph.The new TVR should do about 450 hp at some 1200 kg (if that is true?) but will be hard pressed to match these numbers, let alone have the same quality handling.
But we are coming from a world where a TVR had a lot more power than a 911 and cost a lot less; that won't be the case anymore.
KevinCamaroSS said:
Alex said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
Unfortunately I think TVR will be unlikely to hit a reasonable annual production run unless they offer hybrid/electric drive trains. Much to my annoyance that does appear to be where the future is. Todays new drivers appear more interested in connectivity than performance or soul.
IMO, the whole point of TVR is that they offer an antidote to those things.I asked a lot of questions and am satisfied that this car will be one of the last - if not the last - true sports car focussed on sport and not GT driving. Les showed a list of cars against which they intend to compete performance wise and it read like top trump game of sub £200k cars. This is a car that is intended to be blasted down our favourite B roads, driven around LeMans in race spec, and comfy and spacious enough to go touring in. Not much has been said about the interior but it looked competitive with any modern sports car - really good in fact
Front-mid-engined cars do tend to have similar proportions and the 500 is no different - EXCEPT of course for the side exiting exhausts which will make a distinctive sound, the lairy aero made possible by this configuration, and the overall lightness and strength of the carbon iStream chassis. I understand that it's a lot of money to put down when still no real car has been shown but given the specs, and the heritage of the people involved, I'm amazed that there are still open slots.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th March 17:44
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