New TVR still under wraps!

[m4tti]

I think things like the Gallardo, hurracan, 458, 650 etc achieve it, and are stand out shapes, so similar in a front engine platform would have worked. I guess at the end of the day it'll depend on individual use cases, mine would be to have something that excels in looks, performance and driving experience that I can take out early on a Sunday morning before the wife's up, bring home and put back in the garage till the next time.

Opening the garage door on an F-type for example on Saturday afternoon for inspiration, wouldn't really stop me getting "on it" on a Saturday night. Something like the Hurracan or mclaren would.

Edited by m4tti on Friday 31st March 08:42

Edited by m4tti on Friday 31st March 08:43

[DonkeyApple]

m4tti said:

I think things like the Gallardo, hurracan, 458, 650 etc achieve it, and are stand out shapes, so similar in a front engine platform would have worked. I guess at the end of the day it'll depend on individual use cases, mine would be to have something that excels in looks, performance and driving experience that I can take out early on a Sunday morning before the wife's up, bring home and put back in the garage till the next time.

Opening the garage door on an F-type for example on Saturday afternoon for inspiration, wouldn't really stop me getting "on it" on a Saturday night. Something like the Hurracan or mclaren would.

Edited by m4tti on Friday 31st March 08:42

Edited by m4tti on Friday 31st March 08:43

I agree but even Lamborghini have reigned in the extremeness in order to sell enough cars to exist.

There's a balance and for me I've always felt the Sag falls the other side of that.

[900T-R]

GTrr said:

OK the basic Carrera S at 90k pounds has 420 hp and weighs 1450 kg so less than 300 h/ton but it does 4.2 s to 100 kph and tops at 306 kph.
The new TVR should do about 450 hp at some 1200 kg (if that is true?) but will be hard pressed to match these numbers, let alone have the same quality handling.

But we are coming from a world where a TVR had a lot more power than a 911 and cost a lot less; that won't be the case anymore.

Um, that will be 500 hp/1250 kg for the envisaged 400 bhp/ton rating versus less than 300 bhp/ton. This puts the new TVR at about the same point versus the competition as it was previously - more power and a *lot* better power/weight ratio at a given price point.

The other comments are purely speculative IMO.

[julian64]

DonkeyApple said:

The trouble is that no one would buy such a car in enough numbers to ever be viable. It's taken years for the shock factor of the Sagaris to mellow. I very much suspect that the way to achieve volume sales is to offer something more grown up. People just don't want to stand out too much.

I don't mind standing out. I have a cobra and the lack of hairstyle/medallion to go with it. I just don't want to be laughed at. The saggy makes me want to laugh. Its a bit like seeing someone fitting a dustbin exhaust tip to a corsa.

Dirty great holes in the front wing to apparently increasing brake cooling efficiency, and the most ridiculous plastic rear wing which each and every saggy owner is convinced is essential to stopping them from reaching orbit.

Its a daft car for a daft driver. The shock hasn't mellowed for me.

[tvrolet]

TUS64N said:

For your information the green Tuscan with the exhaust hanging off drove 500 miles from Edinburgh that morning and ripped the exhaust off 100 yards from broad water school in the leisure centre carpark which I thought was the school at first in my panic to avoid being late

That was keen! I flew down and picked up a rental hack at Gatwick; the idea of a 1000 mile round trip drive for a 2-hour event didn't hold any appeal for me. So there should be at least 2 LEs in the Edinburgh area then...

[GTrr]

900T-R said:

Um, that will be 500 hp/1250 kg for the envisaged 400 bhp/ton rating versus less than 300 bhp/ton. This puts the new TVR at about the same point versus the competition as it was previously - more power and a *lot* better power/weight ratio at a given price point.

The other comments are purely speculative IMO.

Don't think so. The actual difference in performance will be much smaller than before, if there will be any; modern sportscars are very effective in putting down the power. I really struggled to keep up with a standard 2012 Carrera the other day on track whereas my Tuscan has a 4.3 with some 420 bhp and the Carrera had 400 bhp and 1450 kg ... The chassis is just so much better. And pricewise there won't be much between them either.
Musy say I will still take the TVR ! but more for drama/soul than anything else.

[m4tti]

GTrr said:

900T-R said:

Um, that will be 500 hp/1250 kg for the envisaged 400 bhp/ton rating versus less than 300 bhp/ton. This puts the new TVR at about the same point versus the competition as it was previously - more power and a *lot* better power/weight ratio at a given price point.

The other comments are purely speculative IMO.

Don't think so. The actual difference in performance will be much smaller than before, if there will be any; modern sportscars are very effective in putting down the power. I really struggled to keep up with a standard 2012 Carrera the other day on track whereas my Tuscan has a 4.3 with some 420 bhp and the Carrera had 400 bhp and 1450 kg ... The chassis is just so much better. And pricewise there won't be much between them either.
Musy say I will still take the TVR ! but more for drama/soul than anything else.

Precisely.. the whole bhp/ton is largely out dated with trick diffs, electronic gear change and active suspension .. as we know a Nissan GTR weighs a lot.. and still kicks ass.

[DonkeyApple]

It's still a digital council house however fast it is.

[m4tti]

DonkeyApple said:

It's still a digital council house however fast it is.

This is true. although pretty much everything else has followed suit..

[900T-R]

GTrr said:

Don't think so. The actual difference in performance will be much smaller than before, if there will be any; modern sportscars are very effective in putting down the power. I really struggled to keep up with a standard 2012 Carrera the other day on track whereas my Tuscan has a 4.3 with some 420 bhp and the Carrera had 400 bhp and 1450 kg ... The chassis is just so much better. And pricewise there won't be much between them either.
Musy say I will still take the TVR ! but more for drama/soul than anything else.

But that's drifitng some way off your original statement, which was:

GTrr said:

Important point: in the days of the Griff and the T cars the TVR's were way cheaper than 911's and had more power (to weight). That will not be the case anymore

As a matter of fact, if GMD succeeds in keeping to the design brief the new one will have significantly more power and vastly more power to weight than similarly or higher priced Porsches; 400 bhp/tonne is into GT2 territory...

How much of that will be translated to on-track performance is a different (and highly speculative) matter and it was always that way. When you go much over 200 bhp/ton, the differences will fade in the face of other factors anyway - at least for a road car. Only the most talented *and* nuttiest of drivers would be appreciably faster on a give-and-take road in said GT2 than in a basic Carrera.

However, it's fair to say that the car with the higher power/weight and torque/weight ratios will feel different, more urgent and dramatic when opening up the thottle in a given gear at a given speed. That GT2 is a rather different beast than a Carrera S as thrills go. Which is all that counts for a road car - if you're into comparing dick sizes I suggest you'd be better off getting a competition license and a car that's made for that particular job.

Edited by 900T-R on Friday 31st March 14:30

[DonkeyApple]

m4tti said:

This is true. although pretty much everything else has followed suit..

True. There has been a massive trend ever since F1 put more switches on the steering wheels to make performance car interiors resemble a tacky 80s Grundig stereo.

But luckily that trend appears to be abating with even Porsche down to probably fewer than 700 stty plastic switches and LEDs on their dashboards.

And Ferrari's latest steering wheels have backed away a little from resembling fat Terry's plate at an all you can eat Magaluf hotel buffet.

[julian64]

DonkeyApple said:

True. There has been a massive trend ever since F1 put more switches on the steering wheels to make performance car interiors resemble a tacky 80s Grundig stereo.

But luckily that trend appears to be abating with even Porsche down to probably fewer than 700 stty plastic switches and LEDs on their dashboards.

And Ferrari's latest steering wheels have backed away a little from resembling fat Terry's plate at an all you can eat Magaluf hotel buffet.

Replace everything with this

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-MK315D?gclid=C...

then take a deep breath and appreciate the fact it slips gently through your fingers when applying the power round a corner

[tvrolet]

Lots of talk of 'on track' performance. Problem is unless there is trick suspension that adjusts things on-the-fly, the better the track setup the worse it is on the road. My Tuscan (Challenge chassis) will carry much more speed through corners than virtually any production car on track (and it's a true 500hp/tonne) as it's 100% set up for the track. It is also absolutely horrible on the road - scary bad actually.

What some of the trick suspension on newer cars seems to have done is expand the envelope of comfort on the road and/or track performance. In the absence of electronics if the new TVR comes set up to be a track demon (and I'm guessing it won't be) it would be pretty nasty as a daily driver. But I'm sure those that want a track demon can make the tweaks to make it quicker than any comparable 400hp/tonne production car simply because it will be lighter. All depends on what you're prepared to put up with on the road.

[chimi]

I owned a lovely Chimera 450 a few years back (regret selling that) and am seriously interested in putting down a deposit for the new TVR. One of the things that has been putting me off is the chances of the whole TVR project becoming reality. I checked the accounts of TVR Automotive and TVR Manufacturing on Companies House website (its free) and neither of these businesses has any proper assets to speak of. Given that we must be close to production then how are they going to produce cars with zero equipment?

Maybe their accountants are extremely creative !

Seriously though, I understand that there was a car unveiling recently - was anything said about timescales and when the first cars would roll of the production line?

Did anyone see anything that resemble a factory?

[tvrolet]

chimi said:

Did anyone see anything that resemble a factory?

I was up at Bristol Avenue in Blackpool 20 years ago, and there wasn't much there that resembled a factory

But I did get a tour round and got some great photos...which I've since lost

I'm guessing though that the i-stream process, like TVRs of old, will be pretty low-tech in terms of putting things together. Certainly no panel presses or robots, and I wouldn't expect to a production line as such. I'm guessing it's the sort of thing you could do pretty much anywhere with a bit of floor-space. Although others have been sleuthing the factory site I gather...

[PuffsBack]

julian64 said:

I don't mind standing out. I have a cobra and the lack of hairstyle/medallion to go with it. I just don't want to be laughed at. The saggy makes me want to laugh. Its a bit like seeing someone fitting a dustbin exhaust tip to a corsa.

Dirty great holes in the front wing to apparently increasing brake cooling efficiency, and the most ridiculous plastic rear wing which each and every saggy owner is convinced is essential to stopping them from reaching orbit.

Its a daft car for a daft driver. The shock hasn't mellowed for me.

Weirdly I actually quite agree with this - nothing makes me smile more than opening the garage and seeing this bright orange ridiculous looking car sitting there. It makes me giggle its so silly. I have to admit I find the whole new TVR thing under whelming, all this talk of under body aero etc. really dull!! Does it look mad and make a lot of noise is No1 in my book. But I have no issue with others who prioritise other things before those, each to his own, if you love it and can afford it then buy it and enjoy, you only live once.

[AOK]

Maras Tontin said:

Haven't left the house in days! Merely speculating

I do very much hope that the people at TVR realise that at £90k there are plenty of stunning cars for sale which squish the 400bhp / sub 4.0 sec figures the Autocar article gave. As such, the only way they will succeed is by winning over hearts with an incredibly stunning, bonkers design.

With that in mind, I look forward to seeing the final design, and hope it looks a lot like this:




And less like this:

The middle sketch in the second photo looks sublime. Your reference to the Ginetta G40 makes me very suspicious that you're merely speculating though!!

[KKson]

chimi said:

Did anyone see anything that resemble a factory?

The factory unit has been selected and the unit identified on previous threads. A tender for the full building services package is coming out to enquiry shortly I've heard from a friend who is involved.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-new...

[essexstu]

Seriously though, I understand that there was a car unveiling recently - was anything said about timescales and when the first cars would roll of the production line?

Did anyone see anything that resemble a factory?
[/quote]

Full production scheduled for 2018.

Factory is in South Wales and will be up and running early 2018. I would imagine the first few cars produced for press launch etc will be assembled at GMD workshops.

[Snakes]

essexstu said:

Seriously though, I understand that there was a car unveiling recently - was anything said about timescales and when the first cars would roll of the production line?

Did anyone see anything that resemble a factory?

Public reveal is slated for Quarter 3 2017, handover of keys to the factory is planned to be during Q1 2018 and the pilot build to start Q3 2018. I guess proper production of the 500 LE's will stretch from Q1 - Q4 2019.