New TVR still under wraps!

[drlloyd]

shirt said:

I think if they wanted a proper job doing to the entire driveline they would have approached Ricardo. However even your average enthusIast has probably never heard of them. Given that singer used them for minute production runs, perhaps cosworth are a lot cheaper to work with than we might think.

I am sure that Cosworth, Gordon Murray, etc will do an excellent job! Coming from the engineering industry I definitely know about Ricardo but Cosworth and Murray are legends within the British motorsport engineering industry. Cosworth have done a lot more than just fast Fords! Read 'Cosworth: The Search for Power' by Graham Robson - I found it practically inspirational, a story the British engineering industry can be proud of. Exciting times ahead for TVR!

[AutoAndy]

Found this on the net looking for something else.....this is what it should have looked like....

[m4tti]

drlloyd said:

I am sure that Cosworth, Gordon Murray, etc will do an excellent job! Coming from the engineering industry I definitely know about Ricardo but Cosworth and Murray are legends within the British motorsport engineering industry. Cosworth have done a lot more than just fast Fords! Read 'Cosworth: The Search for Power' by Graham Robson - I found it practically inspirational, a story the British engineering industry can be proud of. Exciting times ahead for TVR!

There was a mass exodus from cosworth to ilmor when they exited f1 and wrc ..they then focused on after market engine parts... Let's keep this factual!!!

I have no idea why anyone is banging on about cosworth still. The new tvr are doing cosworth a favour if anything.

Everyone on here is so emotionally attached to tvr it's hopeless for a balanced review.

Edited by m4tti on Saturday 14th May 23:12

[smithyithy]

Car above looks like a modern Lamborghini - terrible

[HarryW]

m4tti said:

drlloyd said:

I am sure that Cosworth, Gordon Murray, etc will do an excellent job! Coming from the engineering industry I definitely know about Ricardo but Cosworth and Murray are legends within the British motorsport engineering industry. Cosworth have done a lot more than just fast Fords! Read 'Cosworth: The Search for Power' by Graham Robson - I found it practically inspirational, a story the British engineering industry can be proud of. Exciting times ahead for TVR!

There was a mass exodus from cosworth to ilmor when they exited f1 and wrc ..they then focused on after market engine parts... And your in the car business!!!

I have no idea why anyone is banging on about cosworth still. The new tvr are doing cosworth a favour if anything.

Everyone on here is so emotionally attached to tvr it's hopeless for a balanced review.

Cosworth still has a kudos for their initial target market at launch, that is over 50, a previous TVR owner and someone that recognises Cosworth as a premium. Also the automotive press understand the pedigree of Cosworth if not the practical detail you lay out.
Whether that then flows into a sustainable market share is the important point IMHO. The talking up of launch prices now strikes me that the sustainable market beyond the initial faithful at launch is not yet there and investors are running scared. The deposit holders, lured in with promises of getting the extras of the LE at little extra is no longer there and are now seem to being asked to stump up full price for the privilege.
As I said earlier Ford Racing offer 500hp out of the box, the benefit of Cosworth needs to be tangible. The benefit of being one of the initial faithful needs to be honoured. Otherwise this venture will fold like a pack of cards.

[m4tti]

Harry stop! That's not what real business and risk management is based on. That's called hope. When you rely on hope sometimes it works other times it doesn't. Let's stop looking to the past and start collating real time facts. I have a tvr, happy for this to pan out as it will likely result in a financial gain, but the lack of car 15 months from release is an indicator.

All I can read is air head comments about cosworth branding. One of the few niche surviving market participant is Nobel and they don't use cosworth pectel they use motec...

Weismann should be looked at closely as a case-study. they had it all minus a strong brand identity. So that type of niche plus a ford engine instead of bmw.. Doesn't add up at the predicted price point.

Edited by m4tti on Saturday 14th May 23:42

[HarryW]

m4tti said:

Harry stop! That's not what real business and risk management is based on. That's called hope. When you rely on hope sometimes it works other times it doesn't. Let's stop looking to the past and start collating real time facts. I have a tvr, happy for this to pan out as it will likely result in a financial gain, but the lack of car 15 months from release is an indicator.

All I can read is air head comments about cosworth branding. One of the few niche surviving market participant is Nobel and they don't use cosworth pectel they use motec...

Weismann should be looked at closely as a case-study. they had it all minus a strong brand identity. So that type of niche plus a ford engine instead of bmw.. Doesn't add up at the predicted point.

You know, you are probably correct...

[m4tti]

HarryW said:

You know, you are probably correct...

Maaaaybe but it's good fun debating it all the same

[DonkeyApple]

m4tti said:

HarryW said:

You know, you are probably correct...

Maaaaybe but it's good fun debating it all the same

That's for sure. Until some actual facts materialise and a car, I am enjoying the discussion. Fundamentally, it's nice seeing passion about the brand so many of us have attachments to and our differing thoughts and views.

[Byker28i]

HarryW said:

m4tti said:

drlloyd said:

I am sure that Cosworth, Gordon Murray, etc will do an excellent job! Coming from the engineering industry I definitely know about Ricardo but Cosworth and Murray are legends within the British motorsport engineering industry. Cosworth have done a lot more than just fast Fords! Read 'Cosworth: The Search for Power' by Graham Robson - I found it practically inspirational, a story the British engineering industry can be proud of. Exciting times ahead for TVR!

There was a mass exodus from cosworth to ilmor when they exited f1 and wrc ..they then focused on after market engine parts... And your in the car business!!!

I have no idea why anyone is banging on about cosworth still. The new tvr are doing cosworth a favour if anything.

Everyone on here is so emotionally attached to tvr it's hopeless for a balanced review.

Cosworth still has a kudos for their initial target market at launch, that is over 50, a previous TVR owner and someone that recognises Cosworth as a premium. Also the automotive press understand the pedigree of Cosworth if not the practical detail you lay out.
Whether that then flows into a sustainable market share is the important point IMHO. The talking up of launch prices now strikes me that the sustainable market beyond the initial faithful at launch is not yet there and investors are running scared. The deposit holders, lured in with promises of getting the extras of the LE at little extra is no longer there and are now seem to being asked to stump up full price for the privilege.
As I said earlier Ford Racing offer 500hp out of the box, the benefit of Cosworth needs to be tangible. The benefit of being one of the initial faithful needs to be honoured. Otherwise this venture will fold like a pack of cards.

Cosworth produced F1 engines up until 2014. They supplied the Virgin/Marussia team through their 4 years, williams, hrt and I think lotus in 2010, so not that long ago involvement in F1.

[Byker28i]

m4tti said:

Everyone on here is so emotionally attached to tvr it's hopeless for a balanced review.

Thats because TVR's are bought with the heart and probably we're all desperate for these new cars to be brilliant. I need something to buy in ten years time when I can afford one

[wanacoop]

Silvernoble883 said:

I bought a new Griffith 500 in 1995 and it was far quicker and better looking than anything Porsche, Ferrari sold at twice the price, can Tvr do that today.

I don't know.

Just out of interest, how much did a new Griff go for? And what was the closest thing to its performance back then?

Also, with regards to this Cosworth debate, for me it's very clever using them to give people CONFIDENCE in the new TVR. If I had a pound every time somebody has slated TVR for having unreliable engine's, I'd be able to afford the new car!
It's different for us, because we love TVR'S and know the truth about there weaknesses. But your average bloke, who just likes cars, and probably wouldn't mind owning one if they were not so unreliable, will now think that because the engine is Cosworth tuned, it's going to be okay. Plus it's a tried and tested good Ford engine.
I've been banging on about the comeback now to anyone that will listen to me, and everyone looks genuinely sold on the idea when I mention the Cosworth name.

Let's hope it is great, and affordable enough to undercut the opposition.

Edited by wanacoop on Sunday 15th May 08:31

[Silvernoble883]

wanacoop said:

Silvernoble883 said:

I bought a new Griffith 500 in 1995 and it was far quicker and better looking than anything Porsche, Ferrari sold at twice the price, can Tvr do that today.

I don't know.

Just out of interest, how much did a new Griff go for? And what was the closest thing to its performance back then?

Also, with regards to this Cosworth debate, for me it's very clever using them to give people CONFIDENCE in the new TVR. If I had a pound every time somebody has slated TVR for having unreliable engine's, I'd be able to afford the new car!
It's different for us, because we love TVR'S and know the truth about there weaknesses. But your average bloke, who just likes cars, and probably wouldn't mind owning one if they were not so unreliable, will now think that because the engine is Cosworth tuned, it's going to be okay. Plus it's a tried and tested good Ford engine.
I've been banging on about the comeback now to anyone that will listen to me, and everyone looks genuinely sold on the idea when I mention the Cosworth name.

Let's hope it is great, and affordable enough to undercut the opposition.

Edited by wanacoop on Sunday 15th May 08:31

£35,495, closest thing was a 993Rs and you also had the 993 turbo and Ferrari 355 that were both very heavy compared to the Griffith.

[Byker28i]

So looking at the later models, how much was a Sagaris to buy. Around £50k when first launched? how much were the last ones? £65K?

What were Tuscan prices?

[nrick]

This is well worth a read as well as the countless books on the subject.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth
E
I was fortunate to have lunch with Keith Duckworth just before his passing, the man was a real genius. On a deeply technical subject he just grabbed a napkin and the pencil he always carried and took to making drawings. The Dfv was his baby and was a seminal engine, most modern engines learning from it.

During the 2006 season post jag f1 (red bull) there was a significant change of direction having lost the works engine deal, during 2007/08 no f1 engines were delivered. Since then f1 involvement has been sporadic and towards the back of the grid.

COSWORTH is a great brand, has great pedigree and history. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

COSWORTH technology the bit that was sold to Audi/vw and then to mahle were the road car people, things like the Aston v12. This is a big moment for both companies to relaunch their presence.

Google Andy burton who used a catalogue COSWORTH Dtm engine in his rally cross car.

The thing is to get an engine to do Oem mileages, power and driveability we have got used to.

[HarryW]

Byker28i said:

So looking at the later models, how much was a Sagaris to buy. Around £50k when first launched? how much were the last ones? £65K?

What were Tuscan prices?

I thought they were just north of £50k with no extras. Pork was around £65k base for the 911. Car inflation has been very flat since then.

[nrick]

Byker28i said:

So looking at the later models, how much was a Sagaris to buy. Around £50k when first launched? how much were the last ones? £65K?

What were Tuscan prices?

[HarryW]

nrick said:

Can't quite read that, could you take another picture...

[Byker28i]

I'll have to find my original receipt for my car, but I've an idea my 97 cerebral was £42k. That's almost 20 years ago.
I thought sagaris were around £65k at the end

How much were the other models ar the end of the Russians era?

[nrick]

Here you go