New TVR still under wraps!

[julianc]

DonkeyApple said:

FarmyardPants said:

DonkeyApple said:

HarryW said:

Not forgetting it takes at least 2 hours to get a pint of milk on a sunny Sunday morning.......

That's your marketing line there: 'How long does it take YOU to buy a pint of milk?'

I agree that would make a great TV advert. Wife and young kids having breakfast - no milk - dad grabs keys and goes to get some. When he comes back he looks like Grizzly Adams and the kids are grown up. Final shot is the fly-spattered TVR on the drive.

But he does have the pint of milk with him. He's not incompetent.

No, he then has a pint of yoghurt.

[900T-R]

V8 Fettler said:

Whatever happened to British ambition?

Ambition to excel at something that's become as irrelevant as a contest to see who can pee the furthest? Meh.

You know what I'd like to see? A TVR winning the Evo Car Of The Year award against the very best Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren et al have on offer. That would be impressive, and if GMD gets it right, not even as far fetched as it would seem.

If you want a car that wins races, buy a racing car. A road sports car is all about giving maximum driving pleasure in conditions that are fairly restricted at the best of times.

[gacksen]

i do like the idea of a new TVR

as for the marketing and financial stuff it´s quite easy as anybody
wants to make money and not loose a single penny. collect some bucks
via pre purchase contracts. get some more bucks from the banks
as you have already some deposits of buyers. start development
on a budget and get things going forward. does not mean this must
be a bad thing. tease the public a little here and there and then
hopefully come out with a finished product on the financial side with
the least possible investment to make some good profits. how you can do this ?
take already proven standard components and use as less own developed
ones as possible. thats a good thing ! for reliability and i like that.

as the drivetrain is not going to be that spectacular the ex and interior
should better be. there is no need for it to be a trackday weapon
or the best handling car on the planet. it just must look spectacular.
if it does not production will be closed as soon as it opened.
this is the only thing that will attract buyers in that price
range and will keep them preventing buying well proven cars from different
manufacturers.

[Byker28i]

DonkeyApple said:

It would get mullered by a cheap awd sports car. No launch co trol, no automatic gear changes, only 2 wheels trying to get the power down and all the weight of the engine over the the wrong wheels. Much cheaper, much more generic kit will always beat it at that game.

Didn't happen at fighting torque. My poorly 4.2 cerbera beat a 550bhp Supercharged Monero with traction control, launch control...

I was thinking he was going to spin up his wheels when he hit his rev limit waiting for the lights to go, til he launched. Still overtook him whilst in second, pulled ahead in third...

[rev-erend]

900T-R said:

V8 Fettler said:

Whatever happened to British ambition?

Ambition to excel at something that's become as irrelevant as a contest to see who can pee the furthest? Meh.

You know what I'd like to see? A TVR winning the Evo Car Of The Year award against the very best Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren et al have on offer. That would be impressive, and if GMD gets it right, not even as far fetched as it would seem.

If you want a car that wins races, buy a racing car. A road sports car is all about giving maximum driving pleasure in conditions that are fairly restricted at the best of times.

When you see how well the porsche GT4 did then you can see there is scope for a fairly low budget car like a TVR to excell against much more expensive cars.

[900T-R]

With the small distinction that you can actually buy a TVR, and not a GT4 (at least, not anywhere near list price ).

[HarryW]

rev-erend said:

900T-R said:

V8 Fettler said:

Whatever happened to British ambition?

Ambition to excel at something that's become as irrelevant as a contest to see who can pee the furthest? Meh.

You know what I'd like to see? A TVR winning the Evo Car Of The Year award against the very best Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren et al have on offer. That would be impressive, and if GMD gets it right, not even as far fetched as it would seem.

If you want a car that wins races, buy a racing car. A road sports car is all about giving maximum driving pleasure in conditions that are fairly restricted at the best of times.

When you see how well the porsche GT4 did then you can see there is scope for a fairly low budget car like a TVR to excell against much more expensive cars.

Which is why I personally view the new TVR is up against the GT4 as the bench mark in smiles per £.

[DonkeyApple]

Byker28i said:

DonkeyApple said:

It would get mullered by a cheap awd sports car. No launch co trol, no automatic gear changes, only 2 wheels trying to get the power down and all the weight of the engine over the the wrong wheels. Much cheaper, much more generic kit will always beat it at that game.

Didn't happen at fighting torque. My poorly 4.2 cerbera beat a 550bhp Supercharged Monero with traction control, launch control...

I was thinking he was going to spin up his wheels when he hit his rev limit waiting for the lights to go, til he launched. Still overtook him whilst in second, pulled ahead in third...

But that's kind of it. The traditional traffic light GP is over long before 2nd gear is used up. Computer controlled cars where the power delivery and gear change are all optimised, especially with engine weight over the driving wheels or with awd will always have the advantage. The laws of physics and human failings put a car like TVR at a comprehensive disadvantage at that particular game.

[HarryW]

900T-R said:

With the small distinction that you can actually buy a TVR, and not a GT4 (at least, not anywhere near list price ).

True,

1. The GT4 was a limited run that listed at £65k. Vs The LE is a limited run that lists at ?
2. The GT4 now commands £100k. Vs The LE which will do well to not drop 20% in the first year.
3. The GT4 is a no nonsense back to basics sports car Vs The LE aim is the same.
4. The GT4 used proven GT3 know how. Vs The LE which has not yet been prototyped, but has GM doing the dynamics.

And so on...

[DonkeyApple]

gacksen said:

as the drivetrain is not going to be that spectacular the ex and interior
should better be. there is no need for it to be a trackday weapon
or the best handling car on the planet. it just must look spectacular.
if it does not production will be closed as soon as it opened.
this is the only thing that will attract buyers in that price
range and will keep them preventing buying well proven cars from different
manufacturers.

I think you're absolutely right. We know it's going to sound good and drive well. Ultimately it really does boil down to how it looks. They've got to get the first shape right because there might not be the opportunity for a second one.

In extremely crude terms, TVRs didn't really sell and few had heard of them until they stuck the Griff body on top of what was really the same chassis/driveline that had been around for years. How it looks is going to be absolutely crucial.

[julian64]

900T-R said:

V8 Fettler said:

Whatever happened to British ambition?

Ambition to excel at something that's become as irrelevant as a contest to see who can pee the furthest? Meh.

You know what I'd like to see? A TVR winning the Evo Car Of The Year award against the very best Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren et al have on offer. That would be impressive, and if GMD gets it right, not even as far fetched as it would seem.

If you want a car that wins races, buy a racing car. A road sports car is all about giving maximum driving pleasure in conditions that are fairly restricted at the best of times.

TVR will never win an EVO car of the year because In the nicest possibly way they aren't car enthusiasts.

To value a car based on it ability to go from A to B as fast and efficiently as possible is to completely ignore the fact that car enthusiasts like the driving experience.

To be honest a Porsche is no better than any other German car. They are undoubtedly the best cars In the world unless you enjoy driving.

[Byker28i]

DonkeyApple said:

Byker28i said:

DonkeyApple said:

It would get mullered by a cheap awd sports car. No launch co trol, no automatic gear changes, only 2 wheels trying to get the power down and all the weight of the engine over the the wrong wheels. Much cheaper, much more generic kit will always beat it at that game.

Didn't happen at fighting torque. My poorly 4.2 cerbera beat a 550bhp Supercharged Monero with traction control, launch control...

I was thinking he was going to spin up his wheels when he hit his rev limit waiting for the lights to go, til he launched. Still overtook him whilst in second, pulled ahead in third...

But that's kind of it. The traditional traffic light GP is over long before 2nd gear is used up. Computer controlled cars where the power delivery and gear change are all optimised, especially with engine weight over the driving wheels or with awd will always have the advantage. The laws of physics and human failings put a car like TVR at a comprehensive disadvantage at that particular game.

But then if what Les said about a long first gear, 65mph in first for the 0-60 time, then it all comes down to who goes first if we're talking up to 40 or 50mph limit on the road for the morale victory.
If we're talking proper 1/4 mile, standing start to 100 and back, standing start to a mile, then it should fair just fine.

[HarryW]

Byker28i said:

DonkeyApple said:

Byker28i said:

DonkeyApple said:

It would get mullered by a cheap awd sports car. No launch co trol, no automatic gear changes, only 2 wheels trying to get the power down and all the weight of the engine over the the wrong wheels. Much cheaper, much more generic kit will always beat it at that game.

Didn't happen at fighting torque. My poorly 4.2 cerbera beat a 550bhp Supercharged Monero with traction control, launch control...

I was thinking he was going to spin up his wheels when he hit his rev limit waiting for the lights to go, til he launched. Still overtook him whilst in second, pulled ahead in third...

But that's kind of it. The traditional traffic light GP is over long before 2nd gear is used up. Computer controlled cars where the power delivery and gear change are all optimised, especially with engine weight over the driving wheels or with awd will always have the advantage. The laws of physics and human failings put a car like TVR at a comprehensive disadvantage at that particular game.

But then if what Les said about a long first gear, 65mph in first for the 0-60 time, then it all comes down to who goes first if we're talking up to 40 or 50mph limit on the road for the morale victory.
If we're talking proper 1/4 mile, standing start to 100 and back, standing start to a mile, then it should fair just fine.

I actually don't have a problem with being able to do 62mph in first, it will ensure it grabs the 0-100km headlines. In driving assuming that would be around 8-8.2k rpm red line event, so with a tick over (assume 800rpm) in traffic would mean a crawl speed of 6 mph. I'd go for it myself...

[micky g]

My old Cerb had the alternative box that took it through sixty in first and the hundred in second, (at the warning beep), must have been quite a rare spec because Jules hadn't seen one before. It was still a bugger to launch but once you got it rolling...

[HarryW]

micky g said:

My old Cerb had the alternative box that took it through sixty in first and the hundred in second, (at the warning beep), must have been quite a rare spec because Jules hadn't seen one before. It was still a bugger to launch but once you got it rolling...

With the new lump being based on the Coyote it comes with variable cam timing so they should be able to dial out the lower rev running whilst keeping the higher rev grunt too, cake and eat it....

[dvs_dave]

HarryW said:

I actually don't have a problem with being able to do 62mph in first, it will ensure it grabs the 0-100km headlines. In driving assuming that would be around 8-8.2k rpm red line event, so with a tick over (assume 800rpm) in traffic would mean a crawl speed of 6 mph. I'd go for it myself...

The Tuscan S which has the C/R box does about 65 in 1st, and 100 in 2nd. That's how all those years ago it nabbed the AutoCar 0-100-0 title. 0-60 in 3.8s, and on to 100 in 8.08s.
Not many cars even today can do that. 15 years ago it was mind blowing performance.

[V8 Fettler]

m4tti said:

V8 Fettler said:

Depends on the traffic lights. For advertising copy, an updated version of the Cerb vs the rest over a standing start mile would be a good start.

Whatever happened to British ambition?

As DA mentions unless they equip it with active ride, launch control, fancy torque biasing drive train, paddle shift etc things like a chipped AMG A45 hatch back are going to keep up off the lights or beat it.

Worlds moved on from 1996 I'm afraid, and ambition has to be replaced with realism if this thing isn't going to bomb.

The only niche car that can deal with just about any thing and every thing is the radical rxc.. It's light, but still needs quaiffe paddle shift and employs string aero.

I doubt if an unchipped AMG A45 would stay with a Cerb over a SS 1/4 mile, let alone a SS mile. At risk of Top Trumps, what is the 1/4 mile figure for an unchipped AMG A45?

The physics haven't changed since 1996. Modern lardy cars might have an initial advantage off the line, but the longer the (straight line) race the more the balance shifts away from gizmos.

[V8 Fettler]

900T-R said:

V8 Fettler said:

Whatever happened to British ambition?

Ambition to excel at something that's become as irrelevant as a contest to see who can pee the furthest? Meh.

You know what I'd like to see? A TVR winning the Evo Car Of The Year award against the very best Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren et al have on offer. That would be impressive, and if GMD gets it right, not even as far fetched as it would seem.

If you want a car that wins races, buy a racing car. A road sports car is all about giving maximum driving pleasure in conditions that are fairly restricted at the best of times.

It's a sad day when a fast time at the 'ring is regarded as being irrelevant to a TVR.

[V8 Fettler]

swerni said:

V8 Fettler said:

m4tti said:

As much as I like this romantic delusion the reason why heavy higher powered cars are getting round faster is due to hugely complex drive trains which are constantly monitored by numerous sensors and that input fed back to what amounts to small computing processors. So although the copy would be priceless it ain't going to happen as people like mclaren do it via charging several hundred thousand for a car and Nissan do it with their huge funding and ability to soak up low revenue on a flag ship venture.

Radical do it with a smal package with huge aero aids.

At the price point suggested they certainly won't have a trick drive train. Apart from sending a car which has no real relation to the proposed road car it's not going to happen. Oh and the above two examples field road cars which are then verified.

How many gizmos does the lardy Corvette have? Haven't the Yanks only just stopped using cart springs?

I don't think there would be any need for a 'ring TVR to be verified by anyone except TVR...

The Z06 is 1400kg with a 7.0 V8 up front, so hardly lardy.
In one sentence you berate it for having gizmos and in the other for using old school tech, make your mind up.
If the TVR was as reliable as the Vette, it would appeal to a far wider audience.

Compared to a 1000kg TVR, the Z06 is a lard bucket. Where have I berated the Corvette for gizmos? It was a question, not a statement. Read it carefully and you'll then be able to point out that the Corvette has few gizmos compared to the fast Datsun yet posts good times at the 'ring, hence a marker for the TVR.

[m4tti]

V8 Fettler said:

Compared to a 1000kg TVR, the Z06 is a lard bucket. Where have I berated the Corvette for gizmos? It was a question, not a statement. Read it carefully and you'll then be able to point out that the Corvette has few gizmos compared to the fast Datsun yet posts good times at the 'ring, hence a marker for the TVR.

It's a bit early to have been drinking. What are you on about. The latest corvette has active suspension and electronic diff

Have a read..

3) The C7’s eLSD (electronic limited-slip differential) goes from open to full lock in tenths of a second.

Dubbed eLSD in GM speak, the suggestively named diff comes standard with the Z51 Performance Package, and employs a hydraulically actuated clutch that infinitely varies the amount of engagement, going from open to full lock in tenths of a second. Fully integrated with the stability-control and Performance Traction Management systems, the system controls the differential according to an algorithm that factors in vehicle speed, steering input, and throttle position.