New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
I'm wondering.. Is the sale of the first 500 LE cars key to being able to get wheels rolling and start churning out other models?
I'd be worried that if priced too high, too many early buyers will drop out of the LE cars and wait for the later, cheaper option. But if that happens, how crucial will the sale of the LE cars be? Will they open the list back up and push to sell all 500, or would they just say 'hey, we sold 250 of the LE's at the higher price, now let's focus on the more affordable variant..'
I'd be worried that if priced too high, too many early buyers will drop out of the LE cars and wait for the later, cheaper option. But if that happens, how crucial will the sale of the LE cars be? Will they open the list back up and push to sell all 500, or would they just say 'hey, we sold 250 of the LE's at the higher price, now let's focus on the more affordable variant..'
julian64 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Partly. After the LE there will still be models with carbon, Cosworth engine and other goodies that will be the high end vehicles but what they are saying is that after the LE also available will be an entry level model that uses steel in the frame, plastic in the infill panels and a standard Ford crate engine. So a bit like advertising the 5.0 Griff with aircon etc but mostly selling 4.0 Chims without aircon.
But as you say, the LE is going to be far too rich for probably a good number who have placed deposits so you have to expect they will pull out after they have had their private product reveal which will be treated as the key opportunity to entice those who can to stay and those who can't to switch not leave.
What is interesting is that they are targeting a much bigger customer base than us past and present TVR owners. They are deadly serious about obtaining the majority of their customers from other premium marques. Ballsy for sure. But then that's why they've got GMD designing and managing it all, Cosworth involved and are taking it to LE Mans.
Well I have every finger crossed for them. It would be lovely to seeBut as you say, the LE is going to be far too rich for probably a good number who have placed deposits so you have to expect they will pull out after they have had their private product reveal which will be treated as the key opportunity to entice those who can to stay and those who can't to switch not leave.
What is interesting is that they are targeting a much bigger customer base than us past and present TVR owners. They are deadly serious about obtaining the majority of their customers from other premium marques. Ballsy for sure. But then that's why they've got GMD designing and managing it all, Cosworth involved and are taking it to LE Mans.
V8Bart said:
EU regulations are a pain in the backside, is it ridiculous that TVR could be waiting for the EU vote before final design?
Let's hope they consider EU regulations otherwise they would loose or even reduce their opportunities to sell their cars into a big market, in particular to us in Germany! 
Granturadriver said:
Let's hope they consider EU regulations otherwise they would loose or even reduce their opportunities to sell their cars into a big market, in particular to us in Germany!
Totally agree, and the US.My thinking was a UK manufacturer selling to Europe would have more freedom than a European manufacturer. Considering the 2k unit pa as a lvm.
DonkeyApple said:
julian64 said:
Not sure I'm understanding the philosophy here. The first cars will be near 100K, and then the rest of the cars will be Sagaris money 50-60K.
Bit of a bugger being one of the first adopters then isn't it? Carbon tub, wings and fins for £??. They aren't going to detune the engine for the cheaper versions as that would be financial suicide.
It seems a bit of a disincentive to go ahead with the initial buy. Coupled with the fact that 100K will get you some very nice machinery. Its like the first buyers are paying for the R&D.
Surely the conventional system for being an early adopter is the same as for kickstarter. You get the early product, expect a few ironing out gremlins but you get it for a cheaper price point??
Partly. After the LE there will still be models with carbon, Cosworth engine and other goodies that will be the high end vehicles but what they are saying is that after the LE also available will be an entry level model that uses steel in the frame, plastic in the infill panels and a standard Ford crate engine. So a bit like advertising the 5.0 Griff with aircon etc but mostly selling 4.0 Chims without aircon. Bit of a bugger being one of the first adopters then isn't it? Carbon tub, wings and fins for £??. They aren't going to detune the engine for the cheaper versions as that would be financial suicide.
It seems a bit of a disincentive to go ahead with the initial buy. Coupled with the fact that 100K will get you some very nice machinery. Its like the first buyers are paying for the R&D.
Surely the conventional system for being an early adopter is the same as for kickstarter. You get the early product, expect a few ironing out gremlins but you get it for a cheaper price point??
But as you say, the LE is going to be far too rich for probably a good number who have placed deposits so you have to expect they will pull out after they have had their private product reveal which will be treated as the key opportunity to entice those who can to stay and those who can't to switch not leave.
What is interesting is that they are targeting a much bigger customer base than us past and present TVR owners. They are deadly serious about obtaining the majority of their customers from other premium marques. Ballsy for sure. But then that's why they've got GMD designing and managing it all, Cosworth involved and are taking it to LE Mans.
That other thread is full of doom merchants
Assuming that the rumours of the use of the 5.0 Ford Mustang engine are correct, have a listen to how good this sounds with just a different exhaust and manifold... very appropriate for a TVR I think!
(Jump to 1:53)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2F2wPUrcw
(Jump to 1:53)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2F2wPUrcw
plfrench said:
Assuming that the rumours of the use of the 5.0 Ford Mustang engine are correct, have a listen to how good this sounds with just a different exhaust and manifold... very appropriate for a TVR I think!
(Jump to 1:53)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2F2wPUrcw
God that yank drones on .. I really wanted to hear that fine engine sing but he drove it like a granny.(Jump to 1:53)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2F2wPUrcw
Tin hat time, by releasing a significantly more expensive first car are they not just testing the market for a significantly more expensive car?
Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
As mentioned it's odd to sell the starter car for more money than the latter. I always thought the LE car was basically the same car as what would come after but fully loaded as a thankyou to the initial 500. Obviously not it seems
Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
As mentioned it's odd to sell the starter car for more money than the latter. I always thought the LE car was basically the same car as what would come after but fully loaded as a thankyou to the initial 500. Obviously not it seems
m3jappa said:
Tin hat time, by releasing a significantly more expensive first car are they not just testing the market for a significantly more expensive car?
Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
Not what GM told me. LE flagship first, then a series of lower spec / more affordable versions.Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
m3jappa said:
Tin hat time, by releasing a significantly more expensive first car are they not just testing the market for a significantly more expensive car?
Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
As mentioned it's odd to sell the starter car for more money than the latter. I always thought the LE car was basically the same car as what would come after but fully loaded as a thankyou to the initial 500. Obviously not it seems
I've been off grid for most of the week and only just caught up with this thread. Part of me thinks that if they sell these LE models then they won't bother with a cheaper one and prices will just go up.
As mentioned it's odd to sell the starter car for more money than the latter. I always thought the LE car was basically the same car as what would come after but fully loaded as a thankyou to the initial 500. Obviously not it seems
Totally agree, when PW took over TVR they were building expensive wedges, he decided to knock out the very affordable S series to get the sales going and the cash flow coming in. He then spent the time and money on developing the Griffith.
It seems to me the current thrust is to develop a LM car, nothing wrong in that, maximise the initial return on the LE cars by charging a premium above the worth of the constituents parts to recoupe the NRE early. Sit back see if a cheaper cars is going to be profitable or draw stumps.
I too have misunderstood the 'reward' for the early adopters, as it seeming more likely there is none. Not sure what way I will go tbh, bite the bullet and get the LE, chop my deposit for the affordable follow up car, or just call it a day. I starting to err towards the latter.
I remember reading somewhere that the LE car will have several of the option upgrades as standard but at roughly half the cost they would be if you ordered the standard car and added each option at full price. So basically the 'basic' entry level car will be circa £60k, the LE will be circa £80-85k but with £40k of optional extras so LE buyers are getting a fully loaded car for half the cost of the options. The options being things like full aero pack, carbon fibre chassis, full high output engine and so on.
Interesting to see the F12 TDF on Top Gear tonight which Chris Harris says costs £100k extra over the standard car! Kinda puts the TVR cost into perspective when the higher spec cost of the Ferrari over the standard F12 is more than the total cost of the LE TVR? The F12 standard car costs £240,000. Yikes.
Interesting to see the F12 TDF on Top Gear tonight which Chris Harris says costs £100k extra over the standard car! Kinda puts the TVR cost into perspective when the higher spec cost of the Ferrari over the standard F12 is more than the total cost of the LE TVR? The F12 standard car costs £240,000. Yikes.
essexstu said:
I remember reading somewhere that the LE car will have several of the option upgrades as standard but at roughly half the cost they would be if you ordered the standard car and added each option at full price. So basically the 'basic' entry level car will be circa £60k, the LE will be circa £80-85k but with £40k of optional extras so LE buyers are getting a fully loaded car for half the cost of the options. The options being things like full aero pack, carbon fibre chassis, full high output engine and so on.
Interesting to see the F12 TDF on Top Gear tonight which Chris Harris says costs £100k extra over the standard car! Kinda puts the TVR cost into perspective when the higher spec cost of the Ferrari over the standard F12 is more than the total cost of the LE TVR? The F12 standard car costs £240,000. Yikes.
Even that doesn't make a great deal of sense for TVR. There are quite a few TVR indies around that when TVR comes out with its new model will be looking for every nook and cranny upgrade to sell as an off the shelf.Interesting to see the F12 TDF on Top Gear tonight which Chris Harris says costs £100k extra over the standard car! Kinda puts the TVR cost into perspective when the higher spec cost of the Ferrari over the standard F12 is more than the total cost of the LE TVR? The F12 standard car costs £240,000. Yikes.
To be honest these are the people who have kept TVR's running in the hiatus of TVRs last implosion so I have a good deal of sympathy for them.
If a normal standard TVR is produced then these people will offer the upgrades at the standard American prices plus a bit for profit and will likely undercut TVR.
The point being is that I therefore don't think TVR will see these upgrades from standard cars as a great revenue source. As In the past its was easier and Much much cheaper to get your red rose upgrade from an indie and now it will be even easier and cheaper given the American aftermarket parts industry.
julian64 said:
Even that doesn't make a great deal of sense for TVR. There are quite a few TVR indies around that when TVR comes out with its new model will be looking for every nook and cranny upgrade to sell as an off the shelf.
To be honest these are the people who have kept TVR's running in the hiatus of TVRs last implosion so I have a good deal of sympathy for them.
If a normal standard TVR is produced then these people will offer the upgrades at the standard American prices plus a bit for profit and will likely undercut TVR.
The point being is that I therefore don't think TVR will see these upgrades from standard cars as a great revenue source. As In the past its was easier and Much much cheaper to get your red rose upgrade from an indie and now it will be even easier and cheaper given the American aftermarket parts industry.
Agreed yes and I am sure TVR Power etc is already working on such upgrades but this will really be limited to power upgrades only and as with any new car, any work by after market indie will immediately invalidate the warranty so I don't think many would spend £60k on a car then take it to an indie and invalidate the warranty. Maybe after 3 years when the warranty expires then sure, this will happen. The other upgrade options will be the carbon fibre chassis and the aero pack which really needs to be done at the point of manufacture. So the options will make TVR extra profit but I also agree and hope the Indie specialists do their own thing as well. TVRs have always had great after market tuning etc and as you say, with the engine being a Ford Mustang based unit, there will be plenty of upgrades about. To be honest these are the people who have kept TVR's running in the hiatus of TVRs last implosion so I have a good deal of sympathy for them.
If a normal standard TVR is produced then these people will offer the upgrades at the standard American prices plus a bit for profit and will likely undercut TVR.
The point being is that I therefore don't think TVR will see these upgrades from standard cars as a great revenue source. As In the past its was easier and Much much cheaper to get your red rose upgrade from an indie and now it will be even easier and cheaper given the American aftermarket parts industry.
julian64 said:
Launch edition is a gimmick. Look at the launch editions of the saggy T35o Tuscan and Cerb. Legendary problems with the first cars that came out, slowly sorted through the production run. By the end of the runs they were nice cars.
There is a price to be paid for getting the first cars off a production run, and its not a price I'd be prepared to pay.
I ordered one of the first T350's from the motor show. I was severely under the influence thanks to the never ending Becks being given out by PW. Luckily also the dealer was too and i got the car for 37.5K inc air con, 18" wheels etc. And 5k more than i had paid for my chim There is a price to be paid for getting the first cars off a production run, and its not a price I'd be prepared to pay.
I did pay extra for the chameleon green paint ...Anyway as one of the first cars, it was well built but lacked some of the later factory mods such as sun visors, door speakers, and the indent under the rear glass. The experience of being one of the first was amazing
factory tour of a brand new car. Mine was literally built alongside the dealer demo cars. I also sent a pic to sprint and got it on the cover of the mag..
cerbera8 said:
julian64 said:
Launch edition is a gimmick. Look at the launch editions of the saggy T35o Tuscan and Cerb. Legendary problems with the first cars that came out, slowly sorted through the production run. By the end of the runs they were nice cars.
There is a price to be paid for getting the first cars off a production run, and its not a price I'd be prepared to pay.
I ordered one of the first T350's from the motor show. I was severely under the influence thanks to the never ending Becks being given out by PW. Luckily also the dealer was too and i got the car for 37.5K inc air con, 18" wheels etc. And 5k more than i had paid for my chim There is a price to be paid for getting the first cars off a production run, and its not a price I'd be prepared to pay.
I did pay extra for the chameleon green paint ...Anyway as one of the first cars, it was well built but lacked some of the later factory mods such as sun visors, door speakers, and the indent under the rear glass. The experience of being one of the first was amazing
factory tour of a brand new car. Mine was literally built alongside the dealer demo cars. I also sent a pic to sprint and got it on the cover of the mag..cerbera8 said:
I ordered one of the first T350's from the motor show. I was severely under the influence thanks to the never ending Becks being given out by PW. Luckily also the dealer was too and i got the car for 37.5K inc air con, 18" wheels etc. And 5k more than i had paid for my chim I did pay extra for the chameleon green paint ...
Anyway as one of the first cars, it was well built but lacked some of the later factory mods such as sun visors, door speakers, and the indent under the rear glass. The experience of being one of the first was amazing factory tour of a brand new car. Mine was literally built alongside the dealer demo cars. I also sent a pic to sprint and got it on the cover of the mag..
The T350 was, however, the Tamora with a different body, so people buying the T350 weren't taking much of a risk compared with LE's completely new cars. We ordered a Tamora around Sep 2002 (direct from the factory) and the factory asked us if we wanted to change the order to a T350 just prior to the NEC Motor Show in Oct 2002 (where the T350 was unveiled). We declined as we wanted a convertible, and even though we went to the Motor Show care of TVR, we didn't change our mind. I did pay extra for the chameleon green paint ...Anyway as one of the first cars, it was well built but lacked some of the later factory mods such as sun visors, door speakers, and the indent under the rear glass. The experience of being one of the first was amazing
factory tour of a brand new car. Mine was literally built alongside the dealer demo cars. I also sent a pic to sprint and got it on the cover of the mag..julianc said:
The T350 was, however, the Tamora with a different body, so people buying the T350 weren't taking much of a risk compared with LE's completely new cars. We ordered a Tamora around Sep 2002 (direct from the factory) and the factory asked us if we wanted to change the order to a T350 just prior to the NEC Motor Show in Oct 2002 (where the T350 was unveiled). We declined as we wanted a convertible, and even though we went to the Motor Show care of TVR, we didn't change our mind.
Yes i agree :0 although when i bought it i was told that the new 3.6 engines didn't go pop .... lolessexstu said:
julian64 said:
Even that doesn't make a great deal of sense for TVR. There are quite a few TVR indies around that when TVR comes out with its new model will be looking for every nook and cranny upgrade to sell as an off the shelf.
To be honest these are the people who have kept TVR's running in the hiatus of TVRs last implosion so I have a good deal of sympathy for them.
If a normal standard TVR is produced then these people will offer the upgrades at the standard American prices plus a bit for profit and will likely undercut TVR.
The point being is that I therefore don't think TVR will see these upgrades from standard cars as a great revenue source. As In the past its was easier and Much much cheaper to get your red rose upgrade from an indie and now it will be even easier and cheaper given the American aftermarket parts industry.
Agreed yes and I am sure TVR Power etc is already working on such upgrades but this will really be limited to power upgrades only and as with any new car, any work by after market indie will immediately invalidate the warranty so I don't think many would spend £60k on a car then take it to an indie and invalidate the warranty. Maybe after 3 years when the warranty expires then sure, this will happen. The other upgrade options will be the carbon fibre chassis and the aero pack which really needs to be done at the point of manufacture. So the options will make TVR extra profit but I also agree and hope the Indie specialists do their own thing as well. TVRs have always had great after market tuning etc and as you say, with the engine being a Ford Mustang based unit, there will be plenty of upgrades about. To be honest these are the people who have kept TVR's running in the hiatus of TVRs last implosion so I have a good deal of sympathy for them.
If a normal standard TVR is produced then these people will offer the upgrades at the standard American prices plus a bit for profit and will likely undercut TVR.
The point being is that I therefore don't think TVR will see these upgrades from standard cars as a great revenue source. As In the past its was easier and Much much cheaper to get your red rose upgrade from an indie and now it will be even easier and cheaper given the American aftermarket parts industry.
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