New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
Number 7 said:
Private unveiling announced of the Launch Edition as being sometime between 27 January and 19 February (yes, next year).
which is only a few months away - so firm dates - the whole email -
CAPTAIN’s LOG
It seems like only weeks since the London Motor Show but looking at the calendar, I can see that an update as to progress probably seems overdue. I realise that many of you might have expected more frequent updates but please don’t forget that the elapsed time since the deposit book first opened will feel artificially extended due to the fact that, by popular demand, it was opened more than 12 months early – most manufacturers might expect to start taking deposits 12 months before the car launch and some 18months/2years prior to first delivery. Nevertheless, as we start to pass significant milestones at greater frequency, you will hear more and more from us.
BOLDLY GOING
“You don’t know what you don’t know” as they say and, as you’d expect, development throws up many questions as we advance at an ever-increasing level of complexity and pace. Of course, like anybody involved in such an undertaking (in which a lot of the content is largely subjective), one anticipates a reasonable level of uncertainty and therefore builds in extra time in the development schedule to account for this. Indeed, not all challenges are unwelcome; we were not aware at the start of the design journey that Gordon would have the iStream Carbon process perfected in time for us to incorporate the technology in the chassis development of the new car. In this particular case, we decided that adding 3 months to our schedule was a small price to pay to have this feature, and your feedback since the announcement confirmed this. I’ve been told that there was a suggestion on one of the forums that Brexit might be a good whipping boy to blame any delays on, but I have to say that the complexities of negotiating a clean exit strategy from the EC has nothing on dealing with the implications of aerodynamic exactitude with small body changes to the exterior of this car!
One of the current challenges we are facing includes getting rid of the enormous amount of heat generated by the Catalytic converters. These are mounted vertically just inside the wings between the front wheels and the door hinge. The challenge is to make sure that heat can escape properly when you pull up at a péage on the way to Le Mans in 35deg sun having been doing 200mph with the cats at 900deg C and a Gendarme leans on the wing… this is still feeding into final wing / bonnet design (and we are including a warning sticker in French!)
BLACK HOLE
The moving feast that is homologation legislation causes no end of issues and, although our car will be going through the European Small Series Type Approval, there are still areas where we have had to modify our original design to accommodate legislative changes (current and future), further impacting on development schedules.
SPACE
The process to reach agreement with the Welsh Government, despite best efforts on both sides, took 4 months longer than allowed for; whereas this did not directly (adversely) affect the development schedule, it does affect the occupation date for the factory, pushing start of production out past our target. Conversely, it also means more available development time, which is always useful! However, the factory site in South Wales has been chosen and tender documents for the refurbishment are being prepared. This bit is slow but the actual refurbishment is not complex and, as I mentioned above, will not affect development schedules.
Nevertheless, we are making great progress on all aspects of the car design, albeit a little behind where we would like to be, and the good news is that we are on target for the launch of the car in 2017 - our 70th anniversary! While considering our current development status (and inevitably the budget) it did occur to me that most manufacturers spend fortunes developing features for their cars to differentiate them from the competition. Sadly, that also adds cost, complexity, unreliability and, of course, weight. We, on the other hand, have spent a significant portion of our budget doing the opposite – taking out as much weight as we can in order to give fantastic performance in a light weight car. Of course there will be plenty of opportunity for you to add weight (your own, megaton hi-fi, tow bar, etc.) but at least you will have started with an exceptionally balanced, lightweight vehicle!
Gordon Murray Design are flat out on further chassis refinements, engine integration, aero design etc. The design team is growing exponentially each month.
Interestingly, a little while ago we benchmarked a range of competitors’ cars against a TVR and, in the words of Gordon himself, the TVR was by far the best SPORTS CAR in the bunch – the only one you could properly get to do a controlled 4-wheel drift. As I suspected, it looks like our performance benchmark was ourselves all along.
Back to the main point of this letter. We want to show all our loyal deposit holders how far we’ve progressed as soon as possible and I’m acutely aware we have said that we would reveal the exterior styling of the car to you by the end of the summer this year. We are likely to be in a position to do this now in the autumn but, following significant feedback from customers, the press, our partners not to mention some of the more sane posts on the various forums, we decided that we should not reveal the new car ‘piecemeal’ but give a far more comprehensive presentation, including internal and external styling, equipment level, performance, pricing and indeed, as many attributes as possible, to give you the most complete information we can, thus enabling you to fully comprehend our vision for the next generation of TVRs.
TIME
With that in mind, we determined that we will have much more of the above to show early in the New Year and therefore we are scheduling the customer reveal for early next year – further details below. Yes, I know there will be the usual suspects who say “told you so”, “expect many more delays”, “it’ll never happen”, “Not a TVR if it’s not built in Blackpool by blokes munching on rock” etc. etc., but remember, to those who haven’t put a deposit down “why are you bothered?” and to those who understand what we’re doing “you won’t be disappointed” – easy for me to say because I know exactly what we’ve achieved so far and pretty much what the end result will be, but I believe the vast majority of you understand our strategy. This change of timing is not a reflection of delays in development, but solely so that we can show more at the reveal – something I’m sure will be welcomed by all who want to be certain that the new car will be everything it can be, and giving you as much information as possible to allow you to confirm your order and get your build slot.
We are also planning to announce some further exciting developments around the specification for the car at the time of the reveal – I can promise that this will be worth the wait.
Additionally, we will be able to give you an update on the progress with the factory together with our plans surrounding the launch of the new car later in 2017.
FIRST CONTACT
We have now set some dates for the customer reveal and I would like to invite you (and a guest) to a private unveiling of the Launch Edition of the new TVR. We are finalizing exact details and the final date is dependent on the number of attendees, but it will be between 27th Jan and the 19th Feb. In order for us to cater for all who wish to attend, please can you RSVP by clicking [DearLes@tvr.co.uk] indicating you wish to be added to the list. We will allow for any deposit holders that wish to attend but guest places may be limited in which case they will be allocated randomly. Incidentally, this is your primary contact email address at TVR from this point on. We will answer all emails received personally, but please use the email address we have you registered under, otherwise you will not get a response – its only for those of you currently holding a deposit.
At the event, myself and key TVR personnel will be on hand to give you as much information as possible regarding delivery dates, further specifications, any options and to discuss how we ensure that owning a new TVR is an exceptional experience for you.
CONTINUUM
By the way, this is certainly not the last update before the reveal - we will be more communicative from now on, as we have more to say. Despite pressure from all sides, we are determined that we make statements only when they are substantive.
EPILOGUE
Some of you, I know, were present when we took the Black Hound around the Millbrook high speed circuit last month and I hope you’ll agree that it made a huge impression aurally. This Cerbera-based mule is simply a test of engine power and gearbox in a car that broadly represents a vehicle of our target weight (slightly heavier actually). For the avoidance of doubt (and the usual nonsense on the forums), that’s all it was. It’s not supposed to be representative of our progress with the new car, simply a test of the Cosworth drive train in something approaching the weight and size of our car. We showed this to a group of Cerbera owners celebrating the 20th Anniversary of the launch of this iconic 2+2.
FEEL THE FORCE
To those of you that were unable to sample the delights of the Black Hound’s soundtrack, here’s a link to one of our own tests – yours truly trying out the ‘wet’ throttle map on a damp section of the Top Gear track… [Link to YouTube video]
…and yes, it really does sound like that.
(I recommend it on full volume on the 5.45 commute home).
Thanks for your support,
Les Edgar
Chairman
TVR Manufacturing Ltd
www.tvr.co.uk
Roaring Back, into Ebbw Vale - Wales
& Sponsor of Ebbw Vale
Rugby Football Club
Copyright © 2016 TVR Manufacturing Ltd, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this mailing because you are on our new car deposit list. The list is maintained by TVR Manufacturing Limited, a Limited company registered in England and Wales with the registered number 08486573 and VAT registered number GB 187373176.
Our mailing address is:
TVR Manufacturing Ltd
Griffith House
Walliswood
Dorking, Surrey RH5 5RD
United Kingdom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juy1HxoXuzs&fe...
Edited by BJWoods on Friday 16th September 17:34
As a deposit-holder I must say that I am not particularly fussed about whether or not we are on, or slightly behind, schedule. Far more importantly, I think every communique that TVR/Les has issued so far has been absolutely spot-on and have all been very encouraging - especially this one! The video says it all for me!
Wow, that's some response.
Wonder what triggered that?
Lots of words but still nothing tangible. I'll continue to watch that space.
I'll continue to have the utmost respect for folk to place deposits on what's so far been a fairly lame promise.
I'll continue to believe that the current owners are less credible than the last.
Wonder what triggered that?
Lots of words but still nothing tangible. I'll continue to watch that space.
I'll continue to have the utmost respect for folk to place deposits on what's so far been a fairly lame promise.
I'll continue to believe that the current owners are less credible than the last.
What i don't like the sound of is that it very much looks like they are only now coming across problems and compromises that are design critical and which any more experienced team should have spotted and allowed for in the initial Design Specification (if indeed one actually was done, which i doubt) For example "ooh, the cats are hot" Sorry but, really? you don't say! Merc/Mcl plowed millions into the exhaust line design and validation for the SLR, and the thermal management issues are indeed significant. But anyone with half a brain knows that (i assume they also have an idea of then type approval drive-by noise regs they have to meet, because, and trust me on this, the SLR used EVERY trick in the book to get through that one....... (the microphone placement mandated by the DBN test really doesn't favour side exits hence the EU SRT-10 having an additional rear exhaust used at low speed)
I'd suggest something like this,btw:
;-)
So what else are they going to be surprised about? In my experienced view, i'd say the project has not yet even completed AP (Attribute Prototype) level work, let alone CP or PP level development/validation etc That puts it something like 2 to 3 years away from volume ime.
I'd suggest something like this,btw:
;-)
So what else are they going to be surprised about? In my experienced view, i'd say the project has not yet even completed AP (Attribute Prototype) level work, let alone CP or PP level development/validation etc That puts it something like 2 to 3 years away from volume ime.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 16th September 21:11
TVRsaid said:
Interestingly, a little while ago we benchmarked a range of competitors’ cars against a TVR and, in the words of Gordon himself, the TVR was by far the best SPORTS CAR in the bunch – the only one you could properly get to do a controlled 4-wheel drift. As I suspected, it looks like our performance benchmark was ourselves all along.
So the guy being paid to develop his own chassis recons "Mines better than all yours". Hmmm, sounds like a fair test to me...... ;-)Max_Torque said:
What i don't like the sound of is that it very much looks like they are only now coming across problems and compromises that are design critical and which any more experienced team should have spotted and allowed for in the initial Design Specification (if indeed one actually was done, which i doubt) For example "ooh, the cats are hot" Sorry but, really? you don't say! Merc/Mcl plowed millions into the exhaust line design and validation for the SLR, and the thermal management issues are indeed significant. But anyone with half a brain knows that (i assume they also have an idea of then type approval drive-by noise regs they have to meet, because, and trust me on this, the SLR used EVERY trick in the book to get through that one....... (the microphone placement mandated by the DBN test really doesn't favour side exits hence the EU SRT-10 having an additional rear exhaust used at low speed)
I'd suggest something like this,btw:
;-)
So what else are they going to be surprised about? In my experienced view, i'd say the project has not yet even completed AP (Attribute Prototype) level work, let alone CP or PP level development/validation etc That puts it something like 2 to 3 years away from volume ime.
I'm assuming the picture of the exhaust is of a SLR, I think one of the main issues with the T37 is going to be the flat floor which doesn't allow for cooling air to be drag in. I suppose the traditional TVR sweeping it forward first may help but getting an exhaust that doesn't strangle the engine performance and the balance of keeping it cool is the real issue. I'd suggest something like this,btw:
;-)
So what else are they going to be surprised about? In my experienced view, i'd say the project has not yet even completed AP (Attribute Prototype) level work, let alone CP or PP level development/validation etc That puts it something like 2 to 3 years away from volume ime.
Edited by Max_Torque on Friday 16th September 21:11
I for one would be not disappointed if the actual delivery of the customer cars is delayed to get this aspect right.
All sounds very promising and the mule sounds spectacular.
Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
HarryW said:
I'm assuming the picture of the exhaust is of a SLR, I think one of the main issues with the T37 is going to be the flat floor which doesn't allow for cooling air to be drag in. I suppose the traditional TVR sweeping it forward first may help but getting an exhaust that doesn't strangle the engine performance and the balance of keeping it cool is the real issue.
I for one would be not disappointed if the actual delivery of the customer cars is delayed to get this aspect right.
The SLR has a flat aero floor. That's the whole reason why it has side pipes, like the T37 does now. Imho the T37 is going to be largely what GM wanted for the SLR, but wasn't allowed to by Mercedes.I for one would be not disappointed if the actual delivery of the customer cars is delayed to get this aspect right.
As far as exhaust cooling goes, you can see the two air intakes under where the cats are on each side. The hot air will then vent out through presumably bonnet and wing vents like in the SLR.
Essentially Mercedes has already paid for much of the T37's development in this respect
Edited by dvs_dave on Saturday 17th September 04:38
I completely agree with this...I too am a deposit holder. It's all exciting stuff.
It's equally amusing reading all the 'doom sayer' comments...
It's equally amusing reading all the 'doom sayer' comments...
Snakes said:
As a deposit-holder I must say that I am not particularly fussed about whether or not we are on, or slightly behind, schedule. Far more importantly, I think every communique that TVR/Les has issued so far has been absolutely spot-on and have all been very encouraging - especially this one! The video says it all for me!
In what senario would you have felt comfortable though? Some people are early adopters and some are not. Some people do/can buy these type of cars and some don't/can't. Clearly you know the management/design team personally which may have swayed your decision about things... also fine. But it's all good fun from where I'm sat.I can also appreciate how challenging it must be to build the plant required... time/launch dates etc are not a problem for me... when the first car is ready,If I like it... I will buy it. IF not I won't. And I will take my deposit back and walk away happy and supportive of those that do buy one. Nothing lame what so ever from my point of view.
TVRMs said:
Wow, that's some response.
Wonder what triggered that?
Lots of words but still nothing tangible. I'll continue to watch that space.
I'll continue to have the utmost respect for folk to place deposits on what's so far been a fairly lame promise.
I'll continue to believe that the current owners are less credible than the last.
Wonder what triggered that?
Lots of words but still nothing tangible. I'll continue to watch that space.
I'll continue to have the utmost respect for folk to place deposits on what's so far been a fairly lame promise.
I'll continue to believe that the current owners are less credible than the last.
Gary81 said:
I completely agree with this...I too am a deposit holder. It's all exciting stuff.
It's equally amusing reading all the 'doom sayer' comments...
Gary,It's equally amusing reading all the 'doom sayer' comments...
Snakes said:
As a deposit-holder I must say that I am not particularly fussed about whether or not we are on, or slightly behind, schedule. Far more importantly, I think every communique that TVR/Les has issued so far has been absolutely spot-on and have all been very encouraging - especially this one! The video says it all for me!
I am an early adopter and can afford. I just don't do premature. I don't know the management team.
I can't take seriously people asking for, and collecting deposits for some thing so far away from prototype.
I'm not sure that categorises me as a doom sayer or a realist.
I continue to wish all well and hope
that those who placed their deposits take their option and are not disappointed with product.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 17th September 08:20
As someone who also placed deposits on PW's cars before they were reality (and hence ended up helping develop the cars 
), I'm actually more comfortable with the new management. I'm glad they have heard and taken onboard the need for regular updates to deposit holders, as that is their only stumble so far that I've seen.
), I'm actually more comfortable with the new management. I'm glad they have heard and taken onboard the need for regular updates to deposit holders, as that is their only stumble so far that I've seen.dvs_dave said:
All sounds very promising and the mule sounds spectacular.
Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
I wondered if it was due to stricter emissions today meaning a larger cat unit is needed?Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
Or alternatively, there is an easy solution but it is very expensive and while it fits a Mercedes brand price point it doesn't a TVR?
Whilst attending the reveal would have been great this month or next, that TVR is delaying the reveal to Jan/Feb so they can show more including the interior makes a lot of sense. The email from Les does say they could reveal the exterior look this Autumn so it would be nice if they released pics/renders of what the car actually looks like as we still don't know for certain. Come on TVR, release a couple of photos of the actual car, enough of the smoke & mirrors.
DonkeyApple said:
dvs_dave said:
All sounds very promising and the mule sounds spectacular.
Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
I wondered if it was due to stricter emissions today meaning a larger cat unit is needed?Have to echo the comment about cat heat management being an issue. It's no surprise and one that GM should already know how to solve given all the development dollars he spent on getting a similar system to work in the SLR. Is there some sort of patent on that system meaning TVR have to come up with their own solution I wonder?
Or alternatively, there is an easy solution but it is very expensive and while it fits a Mercedes brand price point it doesn't a TVR?
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