New TVR still under wraps!

[anonymous-user]

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

[SPS]

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

Could be a new paint option to make up for the poor sound track ;-)

[RichB]

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

Out of interest; how can you work out the gear ratios if you don't know the speed of the car? Just curious.

[anonymous-user]

RichB said:

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

Out of interest; how can you work out the gear ratios if you don't know the speed of the car? Just curious.

Max could you please confirm if it's on Dunlops or Pirellis please.

[anonymous-user]

RichB said:

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

Out of interest; how can you work out the gear ratios if you don't know the speed of the car? Just curious.

You can work out the (approx)speed from the rate of change of acceleration, as we can estimate how much the car weighs and we have a pretty good idea of how much power it has.

[dvs_dave]

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

So how do they make the SLR sound so epic? That's a cross plane V8 with independent uncoupled side pipes like the new TVR.

[portzi]

dvs_dave said:

Max_Torque said:

A quick frequency analysis of that videos sound track shows the dominating effect of individual side pipes, in that the half order frequencies dominate, with fairly nasty (discordious) harmonics across the range. Unfortunately this makes the engine sound even lazier than it is....




(also shows they are reving it to a smidge under 7krpm, and if you're really bored you can work out the gear ratios they are running too.... ;-)

So how do they make the SLR sound so epic? That's a cross plane V8 with independent uncoupled side pipes like the new TVR.

I am sure GM knows, l suppose his biggest problem is not copying the exhaust design for the SLR as their is probably some copy right laws involved.

[Twinkam]

V6Pushfit said:

Twinkam said:

They said it was a wet map.

What's that, apart from the obvious?

A table of engine fuelling and ignition advance settings in the ECU selectable for use in wet conditions. Other maps may include dry road, track, economy etc

[anonymous-user]

dvs_dave said:

So how do they make the SLR sound so epic? That's a cross plane V8 with independent uncoupled side pipes like the new TVR.

By doing a huge, expensive, time consuming engineering program! They do pretty much what i have done, record the noise for several locations in and around the car (you will often see the drivers headrest instrumented with stereo microphones in NVH cars!), then carry out frequency and harmonic analysis, and for OEMs like Mercedes, develop full acoustical models of the vehicle cabin. That allows them to run, in software, literally thousands of different exhaust and intake models quickly to home in upon a "Nice" sounding solution.

I'd like to thing GMD is going to do that same, but i suspect other, more pressing needs will make it a luxury they can't afford.

Usually, the exhausts will not be symmetric, and will due to un-even firing orders, they will use the two banks to boost or cancel different harmonics.

On the SLR, after doing all that, they then found there ideal system didn't pass drive by noise, and they had to, er, "conditions optimise" their way through the DBN test..........

[anonymous-user]

If you want to do the basic maths on that spectrum i posted above, then the following might be helpful:

Engine speed is measurde in revs per minute, frequency in Hertz, which is cycles per second, so divide engine speed by 60.

Fundamental combustion noise occurs at 0.5 engine speed for a 4 stroke engine.

For "banked" engines, with seperate exhaust, there is a further divide by two, because each bank has only half of the engines cylinders

For engines with un-even firing spread across their banks, ie cross plane V8s, the un-even firing pushes out a series of higher order harmonics, that are typically 2,3 and 4 times higher frequency.

[anonymous-user]

Twinkam said:

V6Pushfit said:

Twinkam said:

They said it was a wet map.

What's that, apart from the obvious?

A table of engine fuelling and ignition advance settings in the ECU selectable for use in wet conditions. Other maps may include dry road, track, economy etc

Sounds like a headache to me

[DonkeyApple]

How did engines sound nice before we were able to spend gazillions on all this electronic stuff?

There is a side of me that thinks it's all this modern bks and fancying about that has made modern driving so synthetic and that the purpose of a brand such as this is to not be doing all this awful stuff?

In some regards it should be easier for TVR anyway as only having a manual gearbox and an NA engine and probably not hundreds of dials and switches it's only going to appeal to a narrow consumer base rather than the mass produced, synthetic, stuff which they have to make appeal to as large and wide an audience as possible.

[anonymous-user]

I totally agree. Do we know they are doing all this stuff it is it conjecture though.

I would have thought stick an engine in, get an exhaust rigged up and take it for a blast. Knock out some baffles and say ' right that'll do off we go what's next. They're on a tight budget I presume and at this rate we'll have a YouTube video of a Feng Shui expert saying the steering wheel needs to be on the back seat.

[DonkeyApple]

Making sure it makes the exact harmonic sound in a Tesco car park to give Kevin a boner yet at the same time make the right noise to excite a 12 year old as it's driven passed a shop window in Knightsbridge or recording the sound to make sure your pisspot eco engine sounds like a V8 via the stereo is all exactly what has gone so utterly wrong with the modern, mass produced, utility market.

A few blokes who like cars are all that's needed to tell if the exhaust note is correct.

I can see the need for kit to check that it's legal but I'd much rather an exhaust note was tuned by ears than by computers that a nerd has programmed to think it knows what I want to hear.

Being a bit of a fuddyduddy and over egging it but I'm just really not sure that fannying about like this fits with the brand?

[Twinkam]

Yeah that ^^
...but who's saying that they are bothering to 'tune' the noise? All that conjecture snowballed from MaxTorque's insightful analysis!
Les looked pretty happy with it, so that's probably that. Next.

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple said:

Making sure it makes the exact harmonic sound in a Tesco car park to give Kevin a boner yet at the same time make the right noise to excite a 12 year old as it's driven passed a shop window in Knightsbridge or recording the sound to make sure your pisspot eco engine sounds like a V8 via the stereo is all exactly what has gone so utterly wrong with the modern, mass produced, utility market.

A few blokes who like cars are all that's needed to tell if the exhaust note is correct.

I can see the need for kit to check that it's legal but I'd much rather an exhaust note was tuned by ears than by computers that a nerd has programmed to think it knows what I want to hear.

Being a bit of a fuddyduddy and over egging it but I'm just really not sure that fannying about like this fits with the brand?

DonkeyApple pictured earlier:




lol!


The fact is, modern cars need modern methods. Back in the day, you got what you got,and generally it's wasn't very good, but as no one was very good, it didn't matter. Fast forwards to 2018, when this TVR goes on sale, and the basic benchmark is a LOT higher!

And to say "i don't want a computer" to decide how my car sounds is silly, ultimately, it's the engineers and design team who decide, they just use the computer to quickly home in on the preferred solution, rather than spending days and days hacking up metal and bodging stuff together, and then finding you can't actually manufacture it, or the end product doesn't actually sound like it should.

And of course, back in the day, when drive-by noise regs were somewhat looser (and completely ignored by original TVR) you could of course have a louder engine. Now, you end up with less engine noise, so other NVH influences start to become more important.

[anonymous-user]

Twinkam said:

Yeah that ^^
...but who's saying that they are bothering to 'tune' the noise? All that conjecture snowballed from MaxTorque's insightful analysis!
Les looked pretty happy with it, so that's probably that. Next.

That was my point earlier. I still doubt it's as technical as some think. It seemed more 'yep it works' .

[Andy_mr2sc]

DonkeyApple said:

Making sure it makes the exact harmonic sound in a Tesco car park to give Kevin a boner yet at the same time make the right noise to excite a 12 year old as it's driven passed a shop window in Knightsbridge or recording the sound to make sure your pisspot eco engine sounds like a V8 via the stereo is all exactly what has gone so utterly wrong with the modern, mass produced, utility market.

A few blokes who like cars are all that's needed to tell if the exhaust note is correct.

I can see the need for kit to check that it's legal but I'd much rather an exhaust note was tuned by ears than by computers that a nerd has programmed to think it knows what I want to hear.

Being a bit of a fuddyduddy and over egging it but I'm just really not sure that fannying about like this fits with the brand?

Jaguar F Type. Case in point

[DonkeyApple]

Max_Torque said:

DonkeyApple said:

Making sure it makes the exact harmonic sound in a Tesco car park to give Kevin a boner yet at the same time make the right noise to excite a 12 year old as it's driven passed a shop window in Knightsbridge or recording the sound to make sure your pisspot eco engine sounds like a V8 via the stereo is all exactly what has gone so utterly wrong with the modern, mass produced, utility market.

A few blokes who like cars are all that's needed to tell if the exhaust note is correct.

I can see the need for kit to check that it's legal but I'd much rather an exhaust note was tuned by ears than by computers that a nerd has programmed to think it knows what I want to hear.

Being a bit of a fuddyduddy and over egging it but I'm just really not sure that fannying about like this fits with the brand?

DonkeyApple pictured earlier:




lol!


The fact is, modern cars need modern methods. Back in the day, you got what you got,and generally it's wasn't very good, but as no one was very good, it didn't matter. Fast forwards to 2018, when this TVR goes on sale, and the basic benchmark is a LOT higher!

And to say "i don't want a computer" to decide how my car sounds is silly, ultimately, it's the engineers and design team who decide, they just use the computer to quickly home in on the preferred solution, rather than spending days and days hacking up metal and bodging stuff together, and then finding you can't actually manufacture it, or the end product doesn't actually sound like it should.

And of course, back in the day, when drive-by noise regs were somewhat looser (and completely ignored by original TVR) you could of course have a louder engine. Now, you end up with less engine noise, so other NVH influences start to become more important.

Agreed but at 1pmyou said it was By doing a huge, expensive, time consuming engineering program. But now you say it's a quick job? It makes sense to make use of modern tech but a small company cannot do a huge, expensive, time consuming task. Or is it done quickly as you now say?

[m4tti]

DonkeyApple said:

Max_Torque said:

DonkeyApple said:

Making sure it makes the exact harmonic sound in a Tesco car park to give Kevin a boner yet at the same time make the right noise to excite a 12 year old as it's driven passed a shop window in Knightsbridge or recording the sound to make sure your pisspot eco engine sounds like a V8 via the stereo is all exactly what has gone so utterly wrong with the modern, mass produced, utility market.

A few blokes who like cars are all that's needed to tell if the exhaust note is correct.

I can see the need for kit to check that it's legal but I'd much rather an exhaust note was tuned by ears than by computers that a nerd has programmed to think it knows what I want to hear.

Being a bit of a fuddyduddy and over egging it but I'm just really not sure that fannying about like this fits with the brand?

DonkeyApple pictured earlier:




lol!


The fact is, modern cars need modern methods. Back in the day, you got what you got,and generally it's wasn't very good, but as no one was very good, it didn't matter. Fast forwards to 2018, when this TVR goes on sale, and the basic benchmark is a LOT higher!

And to say "i don't want a computer" to decide how my car sounds is silly, ultimately, it's the engineers and design team who decide, they just use the computer to quickly home in on the preferred solution, rather than spending days and days hacking up metal and bodging stuff together, and then finding you can't actually manufacture it, or the end product doesn't actually sound like it should.

And of course, back in the day, when drive-by noise regs were somewhat looser (and completely ignored by original TVR) you could of course have a louder engine. Now, you end up with less engine noise, so other NVH influences start to become more important.

Agreed but at 1pmyou said it was By doing a huge, expensive, time consuming engineering program. But now you say it's a quick job? It makes sense to make use of modern tech but a small company cannot do a huge, expensive, time consuming task. Or is it done quickly as you now say?

Jesus fking Christ the engine sounded flabby. Like a standard ford. Max had the trace what more do you want. Are your ears in denial. If you think that sounds like 100k you need an ear test.

Let it go ffs. Your allegiance is very sweet but that won't change reality and costs. End of story. It's like cheering Eddie Edwards on.

Edited by m4tti on Sunday 2nd October 23:58

Edited by m4tti on Sunday 2nd October 23:59

Edited by m4tti on Monday 3rd October 00:05