New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
KEVTVR said:
Our first car will be a two-seater, because a 2+2 is not a sports car.
I think there are plenty of Cerbera owners who would disagree with that (Myself included) and maybe even take umbrage. 
With more angry Blackpool donkeys on tap than any of TVRs other production cars, the 4.5 (RR) Cerbera not only sits on paper at the top of the tree in BHP per tonne terms, it also was the fastest production car ever to come from this island for a period of almost 10 years and briefly it seems to have been the fastest production car in the world (Production thresholds vary, but generally to be considered a "Production" car there needs to be several hundred produced, else they're 'special commission' cars and as such don't need to adhere to X number of regulations regarding safety, light positioning, crash protection, pedestrian impact etc.).
At no point when driving it do I feel like it's a GT, such as an XK for example, and neither does any passenger consider it to be so... especially the unfortunate soul who on occasion has to be crammed in the back. Calling those things "seats" is, I must admit, perhaps a tad generous.
Good job it's more of a 3+1 then. I get what he means when thinking of XKs, C63 Coupes, M2s, that Lexus thing etc., but there are exceptions.
For instance, would anyone say a 911 is not a sports car? He himself refers to 911s on a number of occasions. Point being, generalisations irritate me
Grumble over.
Everything else sounds perfect for TVR.
2+2's are fairly compromised. The good point about the Cerbera is that it was fairly compromised for the passengers rather than the performance.
LE obviously knows what he's doing but not so long back it was said in this country that you couldn't sell a sportscar to a married man unless it was a 2+2. I suspect he's already decided not to pitch the car at the married man hankering after a toy, with a price tag near the 100K region.
Probably also slightly biased if his favourite TVR was the Sagaris.
LE obviously knows what he's doing but not so long back it was said in this country that you couldn't sell a sportscar to a married man unless it was a 2+2. I suspect he's already decided not to pitch the car at the married man hankering after a toy, with a price tag near the 100K region.
Probably also slightly biased if his favourite TVR was the Sagaris.
Interesting read and the article below stating a £55k price tag at launch??
As for the Cerb not a Sports car well I'm awaiting Powers 4.7SS with MBE (as Ive said enough times) and when run in I genuinely look forward to one of the new ones trying to get away/keep up... I say that as after some interesting chat with Dom 400bhp/per tonne is trumped! Again as long as expected figures and current testing projection is realised.
As for the Cerb not a Sports car well I'm awaiting Powers 4.7SS with MBE (as Ive said enough times) and when run in I genuinely look forward to one of the new ones trying to get away/keep up... I say that as after some interesting chat with Dom 400bhp/per tonne is trumped! Again as long as expected figures and current testing projection is realised.
Incognegro said:
Interesting read and the article below stating a £55k price tag at launch??
As for the Cerb not a Sports car well I'm awaiting Powers 4.7SS with MBE (as Ive said enough times) and when run in I genuinely look forward to one of the new ones trying to get away/keep up... I say that as after some interesting chat with Dom 400bhp/per tonne is trumped! Again as long as expected figures and current testing projection is realised.
Yes I recall that from the horses mouth £55-85k if it is then it will sell, if however it hits £100k then it will flop IMHO. I'm personally waiting for the reveal, if its sensible money I'll buy it, but not at the figures being bandied about of recent.As for the Cerb not a Sports car well I'm awaiting Powers 4.7SS with MBE (as Ive said enough times) and when run in I genuinely look forward to one of the new ones trying to get away/keep up... I say that as after some interesting chat with Dom 400bhp/per tonne is trumped! Again as long as expected figures and current testing projection is realised.
Inkyfingers said:
I have a Lotus Evora S which fits my kids in the back, but i'd hope still qualifies as a proper sports car.
I appreciate it's not going to happen overnight, but If TVR did a 2+2 it would make it easier to justify to countless wives, mine included.
I'd be sorely tempted by a 2+2I appreciate it's not going to happen overnight, but If TVR did a 2+2 it would make it easier to justify to countless wives, mine included.
FarmyardPants said:
I sold my two seater and bought a 2+2 when the kids started arriving and I don't think I'm alone!
It was the only way I could retain a TVR. However, I suspect that the reality is that at the price point the new cars will be at the buying demographic won't be blokes with small children. Most people buying £100k sports cars are tending to be over 50 and not needing the extra utility. Whereas most people with young children lack the financial capacity as well as opportunity to run £100k cars?DonkeyApple said:
FarmyardPants said:
I sold my two seater and bought a 2+2 when the kids started arriving and I don't think I'm alone!
It was the only way I could retain a TVR. However, I suspect that the reality is that at the price point the new cars will be at the buying demographic won't be blokes with small children. Most people buying £100k sports cars are tending to be over 50 and not needing the extra utility. Whereas most people with young children lack the financial capacity as well as opportunity to run £100k cars?Edited by FarmyardPants on Thursday 13th October 13:56
FarmyardPants said:
DonkeyApple said:
FarmyardPants said:
I sold my two seater and bought a 2+2 when the kids started arriving and I don't think I'm alone!
It was the only way I could retain a TVR. However, I suspect that the reality is that at the price point the new cars will be at the buying demographic won't be blokes with small children. Most people buying £100k sports cars are tending to be over 50 and not needing the extra utility. Whereas most people with young children lack the financial capacity as well as opportunity to run £100k cars?I'm pretty sure that once they've launched the LE and sold enough and the media has slapped images of the Le Mans car all over that the next model will be the one that can be specced without CF, with a standard Ford engine and be much more affordable and be what the majority buy.
It's quite clear that the car buying public want the association of expensive, halo models while buying the cheaper base model. Even TVR have always had a halo model and then sold many more base models but the exercise doesn't work if you launch with the cheapie and then try and roll out a more upmarket version.
So business wise they absolutely have to do it this way but I guess the real hurdle is whether they can sell sufficient initially with the current brand legacy to get to the next step?
Agree with DA here. The LE car will set the tone of the reborn brand in the publics mind. It will get the most column inches and undoubtably time on Top Gear etc. I suspect it won't be far off £100k which will pit it against some tasty machinery. At least that was my initial thought but then I started to think what the alternatives would be. Let's take Les on his word and the LE is exactly as he describes it - "It’s in-yer-face. It’s not supposed to smoothly waft you along in silence. It’s about being noisy, wheelspinning in front of the pub, in an exotic, handbuilt, and visceral car. So we’re trying not to compromise what makes it a good driver’s car." and "The new car will be extra loud, ultra reliable, it’ll have a mad exterior and interior, but it’ll only smell of glue if we make a Christmas tree air freshener to smell like it! " Exciting stuff indeed.
In performance terms we're looking between 450 and 500 bhp - around F430 levels - but in a stiffer chassis and 200kg lighter. I understand that Cosworth has been largely focussed on improving the torque curve on the V8 so it should pull well and that aligns with Les's comments regarding a long first gear. I think we can assume GMD's iStream Carbon process will deliver on spec. And a manual gearbox, a good one I expect. As far as looks go what do we know? Well besides Les' "mad interior and exterior" comment we've see the buck and the iStream cutaway. Both show the classic long bonnet TVR styling with roof bumps, a swooping nose from the graphic that was released, and side exiting exhausts in front of the door. It's going to be a two seater and "rare and bespoke".
Les reckons it will sit between Lotus and AM. At £80-£100k what is going to be the competition? Ruling out used cars of course, I can think of a few in that space - what else is there?
Chevy Corvette Grand Sport
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche 911 S
Lotus Evora S
Lotus Exige 350 Sport
Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Jaguar F Type
While there are some brilliant cars here I do think that TVR have found a gap in the market. I wouldn't describe any of them as Les described the TVR above. The will need to execute perfectly of course but then they know that and that makes it even more promising. Looking forward to February.
In performance terms we're looking between 450 and 500 bhp - around F430 levels - but in a stiffer chassis and 200kg lighter. I understand that Cosworth has been largely focussed on improving the torque curve on the V8 so it should pull well and that aligns with Les's comments regarding a long first gear. I think we can assume GMD's iStream Carbon process will deliver on spec. And a manual gearbox, a good one I expect. As far as looks go what do we know? Well besides Les' "mad interior and exterior" comment we've see the buck and the iStream cutaway. Both show the classic long bonnet TVR styling with roof bumps, a swooping nose from the graphic that was released, and side exiting exhausts in front of the door. It's going to be a two seater and "rare and bespoke".
Les reckons it will sit between Lotus and AM. At £80-£100k what is going to be the competition? Ruling out used cars of course, I can think of a few in that space - what else is there?
Chevy Corvette Grand Sport
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche 911 S
Lotus Evora S
Lotus Exige 350 Sport
Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Jaguar F Type
While there are some brilliant cars here I do think that TVR have found a gap in the market. I wouldn't describe any of them as Les described the TVR above. The will need to execute perfectly of course but then they know that and that makes it even more promising. Looking forward to February.
thecook101 said:
Agree with DA here. The LE car will set the tone of the reborn brand in the publics mind. It will get the most column inches and undoubtably time on Top Gear etc. I suspect it won't be far off £100k which will pit it against some tasty machinery. At least that was my initial thought but then I started to think what the alternatives would be. Let's take Les on his word and the LE is exactly as he describes it - "It’s in-yer-face. It’s not supposed to smoothly waft you along in silence. It’s about being noisy, wheelspinning in front of the pub, in an exotic, handbuilt, and visceral car. So we’re trying not to compromise what makes it a good driver’s car." and "The new car will be extra loud, ultra reliable, it’ll have a mad exterior and interior, but it’ll only smell of glue if we make a Christmas tree air freshener to smell like it! " Exciting stuff indeed.
In performance terms we're looking between 450 and 500 bhp - around F430 levels - but in a stiffer chassis and 200kg lighter. I understand that Cosworth has been largely focussed on improving the torque curve on the V8 so it should pull well and that aligns with Les's comments regarding a long first gear. I think we can assume GMD's iStream Carbon process will deliver on spec. And a manual gearbox, a good one I expect. As far as looks go what do we know? Well besides Les' "mad interior and exterior" comment we've see the buck and the iStream cutaway. Both show the classic long bonnet TVR styling with roof bumps, a swooping nose from the graphic that was released, and side exiting exhausts in front of the door. It's going to be a two seater and "rare and bespoke".
Les reckons it will sit between Lotus and AM. At £80-£100k what is going to be the competition? Ruling out used cars of course, I can think of a few in that space - what else is there?
Chevy Corvette Grand Sport
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche 911 S
Lotus Evora S
Lotus Exige 350 Sport
Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Jaguar F Type
While there are some brilliant cars here I do think that TVR have found a gap in the market. I wouldn't describe any of them as Les described the TVR above. The will need to execute perfectly of course but then they know that and that makes it even more promising. Looking forward to February.
I am sure there are others ..In performance terms we're looking between 450 and 500 bhp - around F430 levels - but in a stiffer chassis and 200kg lighter. I understand that Cosworth has been largely focussed on improving the torque curve on the V8 so it should pull well and that aligns with Les's comments regarding a long first gear. I think we can assume GMD's iStream Carbon process will deliver on spec. And a manual gearbox, a good one I expect. As far as looks go what do we know? Well besides Les' "mad interior and exterior" comment we've see the buck and the iStream cutaway. Both show the classic long bonnet TVR styling with roof bumps, a swooping nose from the graphic that was released, and side exiting exhausts in front of the door. It's going to be a two seater and "rare and bespoke".
Les reckons it will sit between Lotus and AM. At £80-£100k what is going to be the competition? Ruling out used cars of course, I can think of a few in that space - what else is there?
Chevy Corvette Grand Sport
Porsche Cayman GT4
Porsche 911 S
Lotus Evora S
Lotus Exige 350 Sport
Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Jaguar F Type
While there are some brilliant cars here I do think that TVR have found a gap in the market. I wouldn't describe any of them as Les described the TVR above. The will need to execute perfectly of course but then they know that and that makes it even more promising. Looking forward to February.
Nissan GTR springs to mind and the lower priced McLarens and Lambo's..
DonkeyApple said:
the real hurdle is whether they can sell sufficient initially with the current brand legacy to get to the next step?
This is what I was alluding to. It does make sense to launch with something perceived as rare, expensive/aspirational and exotic from the outset. There's obviously a fine line between charging so much that they don't sell all the LE's, and shifting them in such numbers that dilute the above perception. I was thinking if the iStream process is a success and they start churning out hundreds of £100K cars they may well have trouble shifting them. That's one end of the spectrum (perceived failure to launch, discounts offered, first buyers stung with depreciation). Or make the £100K cars in small enough numbers that there's always a queue of buyers/waiting list - the Pagani business model 
It depends how you define "sell sufficient initially" - sufficient to make enough profit (might imply higher numbers and less expensive) or merely sufficient to maintain the exotic/halo status until all the Le Mans hype kicks in and the cardboard models roll out
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